NYP Makeover - could MSG be forced to move?

[Nathanael]

We're nowhere near that, but it's not impossible to think of a mix of political and financial factors that could see MSG booted. The flipside is that you would likely see a massive office tower go in to replace it.

I'd be fine with that. Michigan Central Station has a giant office tower on top of it. Buffalo Central Terminal has a giant office tower on top of it. LA Union Station has a giant office tower on part of the complex. Chicago Union Station has a smallish office tower around the Great Hall, and was designed to support a much larger one. St. Pancras, and any number of other European stations, have many-story hotels built right into the station.

The important thing is that there's enough space for spacious platforms, easy, spacious circulation and a spacious waiting room. Grand Central and Buffalo prove that the waiting room doesn't need skylights, so I have absolutely no problem with putting a building on top of it.

The problem with MSG is that MSG squats too close to the ground, constricts the station level, and fills the station level with obstructive columns. My complaint comes primarily from trying to wrestle a wheelchair along the Penn Station platforms. They are too narrow, and the giant MSG columns make them even narrower.

There's nothing wrong, in theory, with an office building or anything else on top of a train station; there's just a problem when that building starts to actually interfere with the train station. And MSG is interfering with Penn, specifically with the platforms, which are the one part which simply cannot be fixed without removing MSG.

It's interesting that someone mentioned Fulton Transit Center. Well, my opinion there was that they should have built a building *substantially* of the current design, but instead of having an "oculus" on the top, above the several stories of glass and open space, there should have been a structural supporting dome and then an office tower. Nice open concourse with windows -- and then offices on top. So that's my architectural view. Very old-fashioned, I realize.

 

[nferr]

Personally i don't have a huge problem with Penn as it is anyway. Yeah it gets crowded at rush hour, but then so does GCT. Yeah, it's kind of ugly, but it works. Most commuters are just rushing through the LIRR or NJT transit sections anyway. For me if they could just figure out a way to get more light into the station and a more logical flow to make it easier to navigate it would be fine.

 

[GG-1]

And Just think what it would do to Ticket Prices for event's at Madison Square Garden, if it were forced to Move and/or rebuild.

Aloha

 

[CHamilton]

Architects propose radical new designs for New York's Penn Station

The most radical proposals came from Diller Sofidio + Renfro and SOM, who both submitted wildly complex designs. Diller Scofido + Renfro's "Penn Station 3.0" aims to serve "commuters, office workers, fabricators, shoppers, foodies, culture seekers, and urban explorers," with a multi-level complex that's topped by a rooftop public garden. The concept separates out the fast-moving commuters, who are confined to the lowest level, and adds layers of stores, cafes, a spa, and even a theatre, in which people are able to move around at a more leisurely pace. The plan would also see Madison Square Garden relocate to sit alongside the Farley building on 8th Avenue.[emphasis added]

 

[The Davy Crockett]

IMHO, The Garden will go. Dolan sees the writing on the wall. That is exactly why the cash was spent to fix the joint up and a Hail Mary 'in perpetuity' pass was thrown. The 'loophole' that was called out in the excellent article posted by Charlie is exactly that. It is something a lawyer or two threw in, hoping nobody would notice. The stakes for Dolan are high, so why not roll the dice?

Facts: The Garden serves many less people than Penn Station directly on a daily basis Rail is the rising star in moving people in the 21st Century, especially along the NEC. The Garden is no architectural gem and preservatioists would LOVE to see it torn down as payback for it replacing one of the most missed buildings in NYC. And as Nathanael pointed out, it will be a lot easier to move the venue than the tracks. The cards are stacked against Dolan.