Only route across Afghanistan

[west point]

maybe there can be a train thru Latvia - Lithuania - Poland - Germany?

 

[jis]

maybe there can be a train thru Latvia - Lithuania - Poland - Germany?

There are plenty of flights to take from the various Moscow Airports to the west or east. Almost every major airline is still flying out of Moscow. So no one needs to worry about convoluted train routes. I doubt that Air traffic bans is in the cards. UK was apparently a one off deal.

You can fly non-stop to LAX or JFK or FRA or CDG or FRA or Madrid or Delhi etc. etc. sometimes by multiple airlines, even tomorrow.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

maybe there can be a train thru Latvia - Lithuania - Poland - Germany?

According to seat61 there are trains but they may be canceled due to COVID.

 

[caravanman]

US has avoided banning flights or overflights so far. UA 801/802 EWR-DEL-EWR and UA 289/830 EWR-BOM-EWR are fl;ying as usual through Russian airspace. Air Canada and Air India re also flying as usual across Russia on their India - US/Canada nonstops. Qantas is still flying their non stop London - Darwin flight across Russia.

Is this a good thing? It seems to be shouting about certain countries being "Bad Guys", but still happy to do business with them?

 

[jis]

Is this a good thing? It seems to be shouting about certain countries being "Bad Guys", but still happy to do business with them?

It is an indication of how far they are willing to go, but that has little to do with the subject of this thread which is primarily operations through the single route across Afghanistan and by extension flights over Russian airspace that is used predominantly to get to it typically as part of a Polar or sub-Polar route from South and Southeast Asia.

Flights that could operate on alternate routes seem to have already moved to them. Flights that cannot I suspect will carry on until they are told they cannot. There are some routes that do not fly over Russia but use the Afghanistan overflight. Some BA and VS flights are using that.

AA has been using it all along since they botched getting rights to overfly Russia, but they cannot make it non stop to New York from Delhi. They have to do a refueling stop at Bangor ME on most days in the winter.

 

[jis]

Singapore Airlines has only one flight now via G500/P500. The rest have now been routed via Iran, Azerbaijan/Armenia/Georgia and Turkey. Air India has also abandoned the trans-Afghan route for most of its flights, opting now for the Iran-Turkey route, except for a few nonstop to North America flights, just like the routes that United flies to India.

 

[jis]

There are plenty of flights to take from the various Moscow Airports to the west or east. Almost every major airline is still flying out of Moscow. So no one needs to worry about convoluted train routes. I doubt that Air traffic bans is in the cards. UK was apparently a one off deal.

You can fly non-stop to LAX or JFK or FRA or CDG or FRA or Madrid or Delhi etc. etc. sometimes by multiple airlines, even tomorrow.

The situation is now very different on Sunday. Most of Western Europe has already banned or are about to ban Russian overflight. Virtually the only significant foreign usage of Russian airspace, though at a reduced level, is by US, Asian countries. China is the largest foreign user of Russian airspace this Sunday. Until yesterday Finland was a huge user, but not today. There is a mutual ban about to go in force. Australia has also stopped overflying Russia on its London - Darwin flight.

Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, Iran, Pakistan and India are reaping a bonanza of overflight fees out of all this.

 

[jis]

As of today 2/28/22, United Airlines has abandoned its routes across Russia to India. The flights continue via Gulf flying over Israel, Saudi Arabia, Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea and then over Pakistan to Delhi, or over the sea to Mumbai. The westbounds will most likely refuel somewhere in Europe. The one from Mumbai should be able to make it without refueling since it is a 789. The 77W from Delhi on a longer route will probably refuel.

The SFO-DEL flight is suspended.

AA is still using G500/P500 that it has been doing all along without flying over Russia.

So now there are no commercial US passenger airlines flights overflying Russia.

Air Canada is flying via G500/P500 and stopping for refueling at Dublin. It is possible that UA will fly G500/P500 westbound and refuel in Frankfurt. We'll see.

 

[jis]

United is flying three flights through G500/P500 and then across Russian air space on the westbound flights from India. Air India is alsi flying a slew of flights through G500/P500 then onto North America across Russian airspace.

Meanwhile, Biden's spokesperson said today that closing US air space to Russian planes is not off the table and might happen. Although at present there is no Russian plane within a thousand miles of the lower 48 US airspace. There are a few closer than that to Alaska though, but they are all in Russia.

 

[west point]

JIS: How about the route over Alaska that uses to use the far eastern edge of Russia?

 

[jis]

JIS: How about the route over Alaska that uses to use the far eastern edge of Russia?

US carriers have reverted back to the routes that they used in Soviet days before Eastern Siberia was opened up. I could not find any US plane in Russian airspace there.

The only US passenger aircraft that flew over Russia today are UA 802 (DEL-EWR) and UA 830 (BOM-EWR). UA 867/868 (SFO-DEL-SFO) is suspended so it did not fly. UA 898 (DEL-ORD) is canceled today.

 

[jis]

Tonight there are indications that United will no longer be flying across Russian airspace, but the Delhi departure to EWR and ORD will still use G500/P500 and then fly across the Stans to Europe, while the BOM - EWR flight will divert to Bangor, ME and get fueled there to head to EWR.

The SFO - DEL flight flew over Russia on its way to DEL, and probably do the same on the way back at least today. What will happen tomorrow is another matter.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, Iran, Pakistan and India are reaping a bonanza of overflight fees out of all this.

Russia is notorious for demanding some of the highest overflight fees in the world, so I'm presuming this change is likely to be a bigger penalty to them than it is a bonanza for the dozen or so countries that may see a portion of their redirected flights. Any airline that continues to fly to/from/over Russian airspace with non-Russian aircraft (or engines) risks getting stuck there due to the difficulty of procuring replacement parts or making large reserve denominated purchases. The reverse is true for Aeroflot in that even approved flights to/from/through Western countries risk losing access to aircraft they can no longer pay to lease.

 

[jis]

Surprisingly many airlines have chosen to continue to use G500/P500 and then fly south of Russia to Europe. I have seen AF, LH, UA, AA, BA, VS and a few others use it. But still it is being used much less. I guess this is not surprising because they are also using the south of Russia through the Stans route for flights to Northeast Asia to, flights that previously flew across Russia.

Air India is of course using it to continue to fly across Russia.

Incidentally Korean Airlines had to discontinue flying to Mscow because they were apparently told that there is no Jet fuel to be had in Moscow, so either they tanker or don't fly. They chose the latter.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Incidentally KL had to discontinue flying to Mscow because they were apparently told that there is no Jet fuel to be had in Moscow, so either they tanker or don't fly. They chose the latter.

Forgive the stupid question, but which KL is this? Kuala Lumpur or KLM or something else (Kaliningrad perchance)?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Incidentally Korean Airlines had to discontinue flying to Mscow because they were apparently told that there is no Jet fuel to be had in Moscow, so either they tanker or don't fly. They chose the latter.

While Russia pumps and supplies many petrol products I'm not sure how a major airline would go about purchasing it. I guess they would have to use some sort of cryptocurrency or bartering process.

 

[jis]

Forgive the stupid question, but which KL is this? Kuala Lumpur or KLM or something else (Kaliningrad perchance)?

Very legitimate question. Sorry, meant to say Korean Airlines by typing KAL, but the A got dropped by my keyboard. It could not possibly be Kuala Lumpur or Kaliningrad since they don't fly and it could not be KLM since currently they are banned from the Russian airspace Anyhow I have fixed it in the original.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Very legitimate question. Sorry, meant to say Korean Airlines by typing KAL, but the A got dropped by my keyboard. It could not possibly be Kuala Lumpur or Kaliningrad since they don't fly and it could not be KLM since currently they are banned from the Russian airspace Anyhow I have fixed it in the original.

Thanks, I hadn't even thought of KAL.

Would KLM even want to fly anywhere near there? After their plane was shot down a few years ago...

 

[jis]

So after a couple of months of development of the Russian situation...

United now has two flights flying G500/P500 the DEL-EWR and the DEL-ORD flight but from Tajikistan it is flying west across Caspian Sea and south shore of Black Sea to Europe and then to US. AA continues to fly a similar route DEL-JFK. Air Canada is flying all its Canada Delhi service through there too. Most European airlines are using it for their flights to Delhi and Islamabad too. They are using the southern route through Iran to Mumbai and south.

Surprisingly Qantas is using G500/P500 for its London - Darwin non stop, and BA and VS are using it for all flights to Delhi/Islamabad and beyond, all the way to Singapore. Vietnam Airlines also uses it for its Europe to Vietnam flights, which avoid Russian airspace too.

And of course Air India is still flying half a dozen flights each day through there and then across Russian air space to Europe and North America.

United has suspended its EWR-BOM service, which is surprising since it is not a much longer route than the one to Delhi if it flies through Istanbul and Dubai or thereabout. Maybe the wind conditions are more adverse. But when Pakistan airspace was closed UA operated the Mumbai flight and suspended the Delhi flight, so it is certainly operable.

They also suspended the SFO-DEL flight. But now they say they will start SFO-BLR in October, which leaves me scratching my head as to what routing they will use while avoiding Russia. Well, apparently it will be routed across the Pacific roughly on the routing SF-ICN-BLR. Comes out to a bit over 9,000 miles, which is apparently well within the range of the range enhanced 787-9s. The only other aircraft with that sort of range are the A350ULRs and the 777LR, none of which United has.

BTW, Ariana Afghan Airlines and Kam Air, between them, now has flights from Kabul to Istanbul, Ankara, Kuwait, Jeddah, Doha, Dubai, Delhi, Islamabad and Moscow at random times. I cannot find any schedule but I have seen them on Flightware24