Parking For Auto Train?

[Ryan]

Yes. Because pointing out that by owning a car, you've got a certain level of privilege compared to your fellow Americans (let alone worldwide) is exactly the same thing as advocating taking all of your possessions and giving them away.

Exact. Same. Thing.

Carry on.

 

[Railroad Bill]

The concept of "being an elite" is highly dependent on the universe of discourse that we are dealing with.

If the Universe of discourse is 1%-ers, then many that would normally be considered elite (in the US population context) would be considered to be barely members - let alone being elite.

If it is general US middle class society then of course people who are middle class would not be elites. However, when the entire US society is taken into consideration then many even in the middle to upper middle class get to be elites.

OTOH if the whole world population is taken into consideration, then there are relatively few in US that are not elite.

So it all depends.

In general we should all be grateful to have been given the privilege to be part of the world that we are in, warts and all, and behave accordingly. That will make the world a better place for everyone - a fervent hope....

Amen to that

 

[haolerider]

Alternatively, the quicker the Auto Train gets cut, the better. It was always an elitist train, only for the first class citizens of this country who are privileged to be permitted to own and drive a car. Second class citizens, that is, non drivers are not permitted on it. Which is why, I suspect, they reserved first class service just for them. Otherwise first class service might be given to a second class citizen, and that simply is not allowed in this country.

I agree with a lot of what you say, GML, but you are way off base on this. First time in my entire life I have ever been referred to as elite, first class, and privileged. Daughter of a steelworker, wife of a steelworker, and maintaining middle class status simply because both of us worked full time to provide the basic necessities for our family. In our town it was not a privilege to own a car, it was a necessity, or you couldn't get to work, go shopping for groceries, etc., unless you lived within walking distance,The auto train is a way for us to take our car and visit our family, because now we are too old to be driving that long of a distance, and with not enough budget to afford the cost of long term car rentals. Heck, we couldn't even afford to take the auto train trips as often as we do if it weren't for AGR points.

.

You have the privilege of owning a car. You only object to my statement because you have never been denied that privilege. But 20% of Americans are denied it. They are not allowed, because of various non qualifications and we do nothing to help them if they don't qualify as legally disabled.

No personal offense, but it pisses me off to no end that so many people are not aware of their plight and resultantly sit there and harp about how they are this and that and not privileged when they very much are. Try living life without a car. You probably couldn't live in the town of your choice. Those of us who are not dis-baled are simply TABs - Temporarily Able Bodied, a status you can lose at gods whim. And then maybe you'll appreciate that now you are privileged.

Quite a rant that seems to be a personal problem! I do not consider myself elite nor do I consider myself disabled, but I do live with the reality of how short life can be......making me aware of how lucky I am to be alive. I am battling a cancer that will never be cured.....my third battle with cancer.....but I value what I have. I am aware of the 20% you quote and I do volunteer work to do what I can to help! I have a wonderul family, don't own my home, drive an 18 year old car and have put three children through college......including one who is a PhD! Elite, no.....Practical & Happy.....Yes! Relax GML & enjoy what you have......don't let little things **** you off!

 

[OBS]

OBS, the LSA working the lounge car was embarrassed, they were, for all practical purposes, SOLD OUT of virtually everything w/in 45 mins of departure, except for almost full liq kits, and plenty O beer.

Because of my tight schedule, I missed lunch, so didn't have a chance to eat til 6:00pm. Imagine if I had a later seating....

Please bear in mind, I hold very little ill will to staff on board, (cept our personality-defcient TAS) they are, as almost always, "doing the best they can under shi%#}y circumstances...."

It was mix of china plates and non-recyclable plastic this AM

Thanks! Sounds like a typical (in my experience) situation where the second lounge was discontinued, end of story. No one (management) bothers to think it any further, such as "Hmmm...maybe we need to increase par levels in remaining lounge car because they will be doing the sales of two lounges?" Or, to be fair, it could have just been a situation where, because of full moon( or whatever) this was an extremely busy day in life of lounge car....you get occasional days like that, no rhyme or reason.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I DO NOT recommend cutting it THIS CLOSE to anyone taking Amtrak.....Just the wat I roll

Try that some time with an airline flight. :giggle:

Try to arrive an hour before scheduled departure? If you have all your stuff, are checking no bags, and have avoided the morning rush it's not that hard, in my opinion anyway.

Dinner service was a debacle... So sad, they even announced over the PA, ".......Done with dinner?, get yer ass outa the diner, we have THREE more seatings........"

PLEASE tell me that wasn't a direct quote!!!

I sincerely hope not.

I've heard similar announcements on full trains. It's usually something like, "We have a very busy train tonight. If you are finished with your meals, we ask that you please return to your rooms or seats so that we may serve others who are waiting for a table."

In my experience it's usually somewhere in between those. To my ear Amtrak dining car announcements often sound like an exasperated parent scolding a young child. No they don't cuss or anything, but they seem to have a difficult time avoiding a condescending tone over the PA.

 

[neroden]

Thanks! Sounds like a typical (in my experience) situation where the second lounge was discontinued, end of story. No one (management) bothers to think it any further, such as "Hmmm...maybe we need to increase par levels in remaining lounge car because they will be doing the sales of two lounges?"

This is why the complaints need to roll in to management. Someone needs to get a clue about lounge sizing and cafe stocking. Heck, maybe if enough complaints come in, they'll actually start providing more stock!
Apparently one of the problems with Amtrak food service is that without "point of sale" inventory tracking, the managers don't ever really see which items are selling out when. So the managers make dumb decisions based on lack of data. I don't know why it's taking soooo long to implement "point of sale", but it needs to be implemented ASAP.

Or, to be fair, it could have just been a situation where, because of full moon( or whatever) this was an extremely busy day in life of lounge car....you get occasional days like that, no rhyme or reason.

 

[FormerOBS]

This thread started out as a discussion of a very specific parking issue, so I didn't pay attention to it as closely as I possibly should have. I didn't realize it had morphed to the point that it has taken over the issues that were being discussed in "Auto Train Cuts". In addition, if I had realized how close the OP was cutting his timing, I'd have warned him not to compress so much activity into so little time.

The Auto Train faces some specific issues that other trains don't have to face. The train often carries 250 or more automobiles, and they have to be driven onto the auto carriers by professional drivers. Then the carriers have to be attached to the train. The carriers are loaded on 6 tracks at Lorton, and the cars on those 6 tracks have to be pulled by the switch engine and assembled into a train. Switching means the possibility that the passenger cars might move while carriers are being coupled up. That means there is the possibility of injury if passengers are still using the doors during this process. Consequently, the following schedule is followed as closely as possible:

3:00 PM The greeters and drivers stop loading automobiles (2:00 for oversized vehicles). Since the autos are driven through the carriers, the folding end doors of all of the carriers have to be left open until then. After that, the end doors on about 30 carriers have to be closed (30 carriers with 2 doors on each end, times 2 ends = 120 doors). This can usually be done by about 3:15

3:15 PM (the time varies a little bit) Last call for passengers to board the train. Passenger car doors close so nobody is trying to get on or off while the carriers are being attached. Begin attaching the first cut of carriers.

Around 3:30 (varies) Passenger portion moves forward to allow remainder of carriers to be attached. This is usually completed by about 3:45.

4:00 is the theoretical departure time, but the time can be advanced if the carriers have been secured, air brakes & other connections made, operating crew aboard with orders, brake test completed, etc. If the dispatcher gives permission, as often happens, then the train departs before 4:00 PM.

The Company's printed timetable used to say departure was scheduled for 4:00, with a note in fine print saying that autos had to be checked in by 3:00. This was changed several years ago. I don't remember the current wording, but the emphasis is now on the 3:00 PM limit for checking in autos, with a bit less emphasis on the fact that the train doesn't actually get underway until closer to 4:00. Since the track arrangement at Sanford is not the same as Lorton's, there are some differences in the process at Sanford, but it's the same general process.

I hope this clears up some confusion. As for rrdude's comments about the onboard experience, I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment, except to say that those comments should probably be in the "Auto Train Cuts" thread.

 

[tonys96]

Alternatively, the quicker the Auto Train gets cut, the better. It was always an elitist train, only for the first class citizens of this country who are privileged to be permitted to own and drive a car. Second class citizens, that is, non drivers are not permitted on it. Which is why, I suspect, they reserved first class service just for them. Otherwise first class service might be given to a second class citizen, and that simply is not allowed in this country.

I agree with a lot of what you say, GML, but you are way off base on this. First time in my entire life I have ever been referred to as elite, first class, and privileged. Daughter of a steelworker, wife of a steelworker, and maintaining middle class status simply because both of us worked full time to provide the basic necessities for our family. In our town it was not a privilege to own a car, it was a necessity, or you couldn't get to work, go shopping for groceries, etc., unless you lived within walking distance,The auto train is a way for us to take our car and visit our family, because now we are too old to be driving that long of a distance, and with not enough budget to afford the cost of long term car rentals. Heck, we couldn't even afford to take the auto train trips as often as we do if it weren't for AGR points.

.

You have the privilege of owning a car. You only object to my statement because you have never been denied that privilege. But 20% of Americans are denied it. They are not allowed, because of various non qualifications and we do nothing to help them if they don't qualify as legally disabled.

No personal offense, but it pisses me off to no end that so many people are not aware of their plight and resultantly sit there and harp about how they are this and that and not privileged when they very much are. Try living life without a car. You probably couldn't live in the town of your choice. Those of us who are not dis-baled are simply TABs - Temporarily Able Bodied, a status you can lose at gods whim. And then maybe you'll appreciate that now you are privileged.

Many people CHOOSE to live without a car. Are they somehow disadvantaged?

 

[haolerider]

Alternatively, the quicker the Auto Train gets cut, the better. It was always an elitist train, only for the first class citizens of this country who are privileged to be permitted to own and drive a car. Second class citizens, that is, non drivers are not permitted on it. Which is why, I suspect, they reserved first class service just for them. Otherwise first class service might be given to a second class citizen, and that simply is not allowed in this country.

I agree with a lot of what you say, GML, but you are way off base on this. First time in my entire life I have ever been referred to as elite, first class, and privileged. Daughter of a steelworker, wife of a steelworker, and maintaining middle class status simply because both of us worked full time to provide the basic necessities for our family. In our town it was not a privilege to own a car, it was a necessity, or you couldn't get to work, go shopping for groceries, etc., unless you lived within walking distance,The auto train is a way for us to take our car and visit our family, because now we are too old to be driving that long of a distance, and with not enough budget to afford the cost of long term car rentals. Heck, we couldn't even afford to take the auto train trips as often as we do if it weren't for AGR points.

.

You have the privilege of owning a car. You only object to my statement because you have never been denied that privilege. But 20% of Americans are denied it. They are not allowed, because of various non qualifications and we do nothing to help them if they don't qualify as legally disabled.

No personal offense, but it pisses me off to no end that so many people are not aware of their plight and resultantly sit there and harp about how they are this and that and not privileged when they very much are. Try living life without a car. You probably couldn't live in the town of your choice. Those of us who are not dis-baled are simply TABs - Temporarily Able Bodied, a status you can lose at gods whim. And then maybe you'll appreciate that now you are privileged.

I fail to see how someone without a case is legally disabled. You are way off base and need to re-think your position on this. Auto Train is far from an elite clientele, in fact most of the passengers are middle class and not an elite bunch. You must have some sort of mental block regarding automobile ownership! Do you own a car? If not, why not?

Many people CHOOSE to live without a car. Are they somehow disadvantaged?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

That wasn't included in the number mentioned. Simply those not permitted- again NOT PERMITTED.

 

[I always rode the Southern]

If the auto train were the only way to get from Fl to NVA, you could maybe argue that there is some disadvantage to those unable to afford a car. However there are 2 silvers that are much more advantageous to those without a car. The only 2 station stops are lorton and sanford. neither one accessible without using a car, and neither one getting the traveler near an urban transit center, or major population center in florida or virginia that is served better by the silvers.

In fact, I cant understand why anyone without a car would prefer the auto train,especially the probable(oh, on a wild guess 99.9% of ridership)that would normally be boarding, detraining at stations more than 10 miles from Sanford or Lorton.

As I have said before, I have had as exceptional service on the silvers as I have had on the auto train, there is not that much difference between the trains to justify using the term privileged. In my opinion, it just offers a different service, transporting passengers along with their car.

We will be boarding Wednesday morning and since the NB auto train will probably be much more crowded than the SB trip RRdude described I'm crossing my fingers, but worried that a downward spiral will be reality.

 

[haolerider]

That wasn't included in the number mentioned. Simply those not permitted- again NOT PERMITTED.

Not permitted?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

If you have inadequate vision, or you have any number of problems (various forms of epilipsy) you are not legally permitted to drive a car.

 

[Train person]

If you have inadequate vision, or you have any number of problems (various forms of epilipsy) you are not legally permitted to drive a car.

That's just tough luck then isn't it? Not everyone can do everything. Deal with it.

 

[jis]

If you have inadequate vision, or you have any number of problems (various forms of epilipsy) you are not legally permitted to drive a car.

That's just tough luck then isn't it? Not everyone can do everything. Deal with it.

I think that the general philosophy that suggests that just because there is someone that is unable to partake in an activity the rest must be prevented from partaking is not a formula for general advancement of humanity. The better approach is to create opportunities for those that cannot partake to do so under special circumstances. For example in the Auto Train case it should not really be that hard to arrange for a car pool situation which would enable those that are not allowed to drive and hence don't own a car, to still enjoy the Auto Train, instead of taking the obviously absurd position IMHO, that Auto Train service must be canceled ASAP.

Ultimately everyone has to bear their own proverbial cross. There are many things that I am not able to do due to certain conditions and I don't bemoan those that can. OTOH there are other things that I can do that many others can't and I don't expect them to bemoan my ability to do those things. We should celebrate abilities instead of being bitter about disabilities and be nice to each other and help those in need the best we can.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

If you have inadequate vision, or you have any number of problems (various forms of epilipsy) you are not legally permitted to drive a car.

That's just tough luck then isn't it? Not everyone can do everything. Deal with it.

I think that the general philosophy that suggests that just because there is someone that is unable to partake in an activity the rest must be prevented from partaking is not a formula for general advancement of humanity. The better approach is to create opportunities for those that cannot partake to do so under special circumstances. For example in the Auto Train case it should not really be that hard to arrange for a car pool situation which would enable those that are not allowed to drive and hence don't own a car, to still enjoy the Auto Train, instead of taking the obviously absurd position IMHO, that Auto Train service must be canceled ASAP.

Ultimately everyone has to bear their own proverbial cross. There are many things that I am not able to do due to certain conditions and I don't bemoan those that can. OTOH there are other things that I can do that many others can't and I don't expect them to bemoan my ability to do those things. We should celebrate abilities instead of being bitter about disabilities and be nice to each other and help those in need the best we can.

+1

 

[FormerOBS]

I don't get this. What's the relevance? All passengers are entitled to ride the train, and all are entitled to be treated with respect, and with appropriate attention to whatever services they may need. If you're blind, you obviously aren't going to drive. But you may be part of a party accompanying a driver. Or you may have your cousin drive you to the station, then ride the train to the opposite end of the line, and be met by your sister who drives you to wherever you are going. To the best of our ability, those of us who work on the Auto Train have always tried to provide what our passengers need, without regard to such irrelevancies as who is driving the car.

 

[rrdude]

I wud like to reiterate a few things:

1) you will not find a bigger, more ardent supporter of Amtrak, than moi.

2) that doesn't mean I won't criticize what I think are ignorant mgmt decisions made by Amtrak

3) I regularly communicate with my elected officials regarding Amteak funding

4) I worked for Amtrak from 78 to 81, almost three years, OBS, Chicago crewbase.

5) I have followed Pax rail activities, worlwide, for nearly fotry years. I know what I know, and most importantly, I know what I don't know, (apologies to Dick) I depend upon knowledge to fill my many weak areas, from the likes of Jis, Alan B., and many others on this board, and others I have met in my professional and advocacy career.

6) I don't expect, nor suggest, that ANYone follow my "travel habbits" RE: Amtrak travel. I all too often am parking my car as my train approches, and have missed a number of LD trains. My bad, I don't get mad at anyone.

7) although i often rail about bad, sloppy, or unmotivated Amtrak employees, one needs to remember that it is FAR BETTER than it used to be. There are more EXCELLENT Amtrak employees, than there are "bad apples", unfortunately, the "bad apples" get the attention.

8) if I cud ask one thing of the "younger" members of this forum, it wud be this: Don't "settle" for less than stellar service. Although you may not care about the difference in meals and service between Applebee's and Ruth's Chris, someday you will, probably. If you wud be happy with Amtrak offering not much more than hostel-style service for sleepers, you will likely get that, eventually. Fight for increased frequency and new routes for Amtrak, and FIGHT FOR BETTER SERVICE ON BOARD. And most of all, LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY! All are important, and no one aspect is more important, or less important, than others.

I never, ever, evet, thought Amtrak wud ladt this long, fight to keep what little is left...

Although many think of the "amenities cut" as no big deal, it is, I see it as a litmus test, as to how meddlesome Congress can be, or get, into the minutia of Amtrak operations.

If Amtrak can F#%£€$& with the Auto Train, they can mess up ANY train.

By the way, my car's getting a tune-up at the Shell station X the strret from the Lorton station...

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I posted a continuation of what I was talking about in the Rail Advocacy forum.