Pedestrians vs. Trains

[Allen Dee]

Hardly a day passes here in Southern California that a train has not killed a trespassing pedestrian.

For many years I lived in the small beach town of Carpinteria. For most of this time there were only 2 trains that passed through here daily, namely the Coast Starlight in each direction; and there was an occasional SP freight, maybe once or twice a week.

Things have changed. There are now 10 to 12 Amtrak trains and just as many UP freights passing through.

A few years ago there were 4 trespassing pedestrians killed by trains in a 12 month period. A few months later the UP announced, because of track improvements in the area, that they were going to raise the speed limits.

This brought on a flurry of complaints by the locals. They had become accustomed to using the UP right-of-way as a bike-path, hiking-path, dog-walking-path, you name it!

Everybody shows up at the city council meeting. They were all claiming their God-given rights to this property, claiming that the railroads should actually REDUCE their speeds. One by one, each of these idiots got up and stated that the deaths were the fault of the railroads.

The railroads had no representatives at this meeting so I got up and took their place. I explained that this was private property and that those who abused it were trespassing. No one agreed with me.

What really irritated me was that that one of the council members is employed by the UP as a trainman. He wouldn't even agree with me. He was more concerned with voters' responses at the polls than with the safety of his constituents. I let him know exactly how I felt on this issue.

I moved from Carpinteria a short time later to Santa Barbara.

 

[tp49]

It's not just in SoCal. The last couple of times I was in Santa Clara at the Caltrain Station where there is a small 6 track yard and the only major train line between San Jose and San Francisco I saw locals walking across the tracks to get to the industrial area on the other side even though there is an overpass not two blocks away. UP police need to increase patrols in this area.

Monday on the train back to Sacramento I saw UP police citing trespassers near the I Street bridge at the West Sacramento end. I cannot remember the last time I saw this happen.

 

[Amfleet]

We were talking about rail related accidents in class today, and one girl said her Mom was clipped on the head by and oncoming train at 15mph. Apparently she was trying to save her dog on the tracks.

 

[warbonnet]

Here in the Hesperia\Victorville (Calif) high desert area, after several pedestrian deaths on the BNSF\UP mainline, miles of chain link fence has been installed to keep walkers from crossing the tracks. This is a very heavy used section as much of the freight from Los Angeles passes thru here to the rest of the country. I do observe BNSF police patrolling on a regular basis.

 

[Allen Dee]

It's not just in SoCal.  The last couple of times I was in Santa Clara at the Caltrain Station where there is a small 6 track yard and the only major train line between San Jose and San Francisco I saw locals walking across the tracks to get to the industrial area on the other side even though there is an overpass not two blocks away.  UP police need to increase patrols in this area.
Monday on the train back to Sacramento I saw UP police citing trespassers near the I Street bridge at the West Sacramento end.  I cannot remember the last time I saw this happen.

The UP police need to start patrolling the Santa Barbara area. Every time I board a train here, I am worried about pedestrian accidents.

 

[Viewliner]

Three days ago someone was killed in Edison, NJ at the Station, it caused delays on NJ Transit and Amtrak.

 

[tp49]

It's not just in SoCal.  The last couple of times I was in Santa Clara at the Caltrain Station where there is a small 6 track yard and the only major train line between San Jose and San Francisco I saw locals walking across the tracks to get to the industrial area on the other side even though there is an overpass not two blocks away.  UP police need to increase patrols in this area.
Monday on the train back to Sacramento I saw UP police citing trespassers near the I Street bridge at the West Sacramento end.  I cannot remember the last time I saw this happen.

The UP police need to start patrolling the Santa Barbara area. Every time I board a train here, I am worried about pedestrian accidents.

We should add the area between the Martinez and Richmond, California stations on UP's line. Every time I ride through there trespassers are always walking around or trying to cross the tracks to fish in the SF Bay. Either that or to throw rocks at the train.

I wonder if those fishermen catch any three-eyed fish...after all there are numerous chemical plants in this area.

 

[AlanB]

It all comes back to what I mentioned in another post, these trespassers have to be educated that train tracks are dangerous places. Not to mention that you are trespassing on private property. People seem to think that they have a god given right to use RR tracks for whatever purpose they like be it, walking, fishing, snowmobiling, or 4 wheeling just to name a few.

If you tried any of those things in your neighbor’s backyard, he’d call the cops and have you arrested. So why people think that they can get away with it on the RR’s property continues to astound me. Not to mention that your neighbor’s backyard doesn’t usually have a few tons of metal hurling towards you at 50 MPH or more.

We need better education from the schools, the media, the government, and parents. Yes the RR’s can and should participate in this education process, but we should also not expect them to do all of the work and finance it too. After all you don’t see the airlines taking out ads to tell people not to cross the runways, so why should the RR’s have to do all of the work? This is public perception problem, not a RR problem. Somehow to many people have come to expect that they have a right to use RR tracks. Worse many who do use the tracks, don’t even take proper precautions to protect their own lives. They seem to expect that it’s the RR’s responsibility to watch out for them and their stupidity.

Most kids grow up learning not to play in traffic. Yes we do have tragic accidents, but does the public ask us to put up fences along our streets? No. Yes we do that for the major highways, but not on our local streets. Even on the major highways the fences don’t work. People cut holes in them, they climb over them, and they walk on at exits. However when someone does get killed doing that, most people think “Oh that’s a shame, but what the h**l was he doing there in the first place.” However when you hear about someone being killed on the train tracks that same person is saying, “Why didn’t you fix that fence before the accident happened?” That’s a double standard if I ever saw one.

We need to better educate people, we need to levy fines, and we need to prosecute repeat offenders, but most of all we need to stop blaming the RR’s for the tragedies caused by trespassers.

 

[tp49]

Alan,

I would agree that more education is needed but education is only one of several things needed to prevent this problem. Education alone is not the answer the railroad needs to realize their culpability and take preventative measures as well.

As I previously mentioned railroad tracks are what is known as an attractive nusiance and as such reqires a greater degree of care on the part of the owner to keep people out or protected especially if trespassers are known to frequent the area.

A better example is a swimming pool. If you have a swimming pool in your backyard, now by statute in most states you are required to have fencing around the pool to keep children out even if you have a fence surrounding the yard there must be a fence around the pool. The pool is an attractive nusiance to children. If a child drowned in your swimming pool because you failed to provide adequate protection when that child's parent sues you, you will because you have a legal duty to fence in the pool be responsible to that family for damages. Railroad rights of way are viewed in the same context and treated by the courts as such.

FAA regulations require that all "controlled" airports be securely fenced in. Do people jump over fences and sometimes gain access to these areas, yes. But I'll guarantee you that if you go to LaGuardia or JFK everyday you will not see people walking the runways at will. Airports recognized their legal duty because of the attractive nuisance of the runways. While arguably it is much easier to fence in an area the size of JFK or DFW and monitor the area than it is to do that on thousands of mile of railroad tracks. However, in certain high-volume areas the burden ont he railroad to fence in the area is not as great as the potential liability to them.

Fencing alone does not work, and I do not think anyone would disagree with that. However, if UP knows that you have a problem with trespassers between mp 2.6 and 4.2 the burden to erect fencing, and patrol the area with their own police or through the cooperation with the police in that particular municipality is not as great to them as paying out settlements to the families of these idiots who go trespass on the tracks and get hit.

The combination of barriers, education and enforcement/patrolling their property is the mmost effective way to alleviate the problem. Will it keep everyone out, no as that is not realistic but it will keep the trespassing problem to a minimum.

An aside to this is that California's single largest private landowner is the Union Pacific Railroad.

 

[AlanB]

TP49,

I understand and appreciate the points you have made. I too thought of the pool analogy, however there are a few big differences between the pool and train tracks. You of course pointed out the first one, the fact that train tracks cover thousands of miles as opposed to the confined area of a backyard. The second one is simply the fact that the pool owner is there day in and day out to look at and inspect his fence. This would not be possible to do with train tracks, at least without a huge expense. Third, people are less likely to violate the privacy of a fenced in back yard, especially to the point of cutting or otherwise vandalizing and circumventing the fence around the pool. On the other hand people seem to think nothing of violating the sanctity of a fence around RR tracks.

Fourth and finally, the backyard fence is complete and total. It includes locked gates and a fence that runs around the entire property. It’s simply not possible or practical to fence in the tracks at a RR crossing, let alone lock them after every train passes. I’m sorry but the courts must take this into consideration, and I really do believe that it all comes back to education. Yes fences will help some and especially for small children. But the bottom line comes back to people learning to stay away from the tracks.

If we allow the courts to hold the RR’s responsible for people circumventing the fences, fences that in some cases are fixed monthly only to be broken again, what’s next? Do we allow parents who’ve pilled garbage at the side of the fence, which subsequently allowed their child to climb over the fence into the path of a train, sue? Do we allow people to sue the RR’s because they drove around a lowered crossing gate and into the path of an oncoming train? Do we force people to fence in their driveways, because they could injure someone while parking their car?

No, I think that people need to be taught about the dangers, and then to be responsible for their own actions.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Miami Joe]

I agree with Alan 100%!!!!

The way America's justice system is today, there is no right or wrong. Now adays, the lawyers and jurors are required to determine the percentage of fault when determining awards.

I was appalled when I was involved in a car accident and the other person's insurance company tried to tell me I was partially at fault. I told them to stick it and I'd see them in court. Needless to say, a few days later they changed their minds.

But you also have to keep in mind, that when you figure the costs of going to court today, it is sometimes cheaper to settle out of court without assuming liability.

B)

 

[tp49]

Alan,

I think for the most part we agree on this. I made similar arguments to yours when the concept came up in Torts last year. To me it does not make sense to "reward" certain behavior with damage money. Our only disagreements are with semantics.

It's not so much that people breech the fence it's just that the fence in those areas where trespassers are notorious for going so that a reasonable effort is made to keep them out. I agree that there are problem areas at crossings etc. You cannot keep people out completely but this is the one area where making the effort works in your favor even if it is a Sysiphus project

Increased enforcement is a key as well either by RR PD's or by the local authorities. To me this is similar to the valid point you raise about the pool owner being there to watch over the fence especially in an area where trespassers are known. The burden to the railroad is less as in the example I raised about being in a two mile stretch as opposed to a stretch of one hunderd miles.

I have also wondered in a situation where a train hits one of these people on the tracks whether the engineer at the controls has any course of action against the person hit (maybe intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress).

I guess we should agree to disagree to some extent, but it's been fun debating the issue with you

 

[tp49]

Miamijoe,

I agree with you as well. Your state must be a comparitive fault jurisdiction where they "play the percentages and see where they come out."

I could go off on insurance companies for hours...but I'll spare everyone the grief

 

[Miami Joe]

Amen!!!

I really enjoy fighting with the insurance companies, now that I'm older. It's really a battle of the minds!!! They throw a bone and hope you're financially hurting, taking the first offer.

I'm going to ask a few engineers about being compensated by the faulty party. The idea never crossed my mind. I know that Amtrak provides time-off and counseling and medical services.

I recall an engineer that was sued as a third party, along with Amtrak and CSX. All three were found not guilty. I know that Amtrak usually goes to court, unless the engineer or equipment is at fault. Usually, the blame falls on tresspassers,vehicles, and defective track. But alot of money is still spent on court costs, win or lose.

B)