Piedmont Equipment

[TVRM610]

So I was in Charlotte anyways this week and thought I'd make a quick roundtrip to Raleigh and back. I've made this trip many times on the Carolinian but never on the "Piedmont" service. WOW! I was extremely impressed with the refurbished cars for the Piedmont. Huge picture windows, extra comfy seats, table/booth seating available in each car.

And who can complain about FREE bottled water and coffee in the lounge? Plus, the fact the lounge was actually a "combine" car of sorts made the historical side of me quite happy as well.

So now, onto my question... Is there any info on how much was spent to restore these cars? Anywhere to find out the detailed history of these cars? Where were the cars restored?

These cars are SO much nicer, IMHO, then the Amfleets.

As a side note.. both trains were on-time with great crews, great day on board amtrak!

Again.. any information on the Piedmont equipment would be greatly appreciated, wikkipedia only tells me so much. ha.

 

[coachseats]

Again.. any information on the Piedmont equipment would be greatly appreciated, wikkipedia only tells me so much. ha.

Go to this webpage: http://www.bytrain.org/quicklinks/default.html

and scroll down to click on

"Refurbishment & Rebuild

Program Presentation

January 6, 2010"

in the right hand column for a presentation with lots of neat info. and pictures/diagrams

 

[jphjaxfl]

Some of the North Carolina restored cars are the ex Kansas City Southern coaches built in 1965 which were the newest non commuter passenger rail cars built by private railroads prior to Amtrak. I remember riding them on the Southern Belle in the late 60s before the train's discontinuance in November, 1969. KCS stayed in the passenger business longer than most of the smaller railroads and provided excellent service to the end. I am glad the cars are still in use on Amtrak.

 

[had8ley]

Some of the North Carolina restored cars are the ex Kansas City Southern coaches built in 1965 which were the newest non commuter passenger rail cars built by private railroads prior to Amtrak. I remember riding them on the Southern Belle in the late 60s before the train's discontinuance in November, 1969. KCS stayed in the passenger business longer than most of the smaller railroads and provided excellent service to the end. I am glad the cars are still in use on Amtrak.

I have to totally agree with your comments. I noticed the car they called "UP" as one of the Chicago & North Western business train cars that the UP broke up and sold off after the merger. NC is very smart in all their choices of equipment and adding life to cars Amtrak would send out to be cut up.

 

[busboy]

When did they upgrade the cars? I rode it CLT-NYP round trip about a year and a half ago and the whole train seemed shabby and tired. Certainly in need of a refurbishment.

 

[NY Penn]

When did they upgrade the cars? I rode it CLT-NYP round trip about a year and a half ago and the whole train seemed shabby and tired. Certainly in need of a refurbishment.

The train going to NYP, the Carolinian, has Amfleet cars, not the ones in question that operate on the Piedmont.

 

[VentureForth]

I've enjoyed the Piedmont fromthe beginning... even before their 09 refurb. Very nice, super friendly. Every time I make it to visit my inlaws, I take my kids R/T from KAN-SAL for Hot Cocoa for the kids and AGR points for me.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Again.. any information on the Piedmont equipment would be greatly appreciated, wikkipedia only tells me so much. ha.

Go to this webpage: http://www.bytrain.org/quicklinks/default.html

and scroll down to click on

"Refurbishment & Rebuild

Program Presentation

January 6, 2010"

in the right hand column for a presentation with lots of neat info. and pictures/diagrams

Great link. The before and after pictures say volumes about what can be done with "old and obsolete" equipment. If some other states would learn from NCDOT's example there might be hope for some of the Heritage cars that are sitting around rusting away.

Now I've got another train I want to ride!

 

[TVRM610]

Correct. I've ridden the Carolinian many times as well. I wouldn't call the amfleets I've seen "shabby" but they are certainly not as nice as the cars on the Piedmont.

When did they upgrade the cars? I rode it CLT-NYP round trip about a year and a half ago and the whole train seemed shabby and tired. Certainly in need of a refurbishment.

The train going to NYP, the Carolinian, has Amfleet cars, not the ones in question that operate on the Piedmont.

 

[afigg]

I have to totally agree with your comments. I noticed the car they called "UP" as one of the Chicago & North Western business train cars that the UP broke up and sold off after the merger. NC is very smart in all their choices of equipment and adding life to cars Amtrak would send out to be cut up.

How many miles and years of active use were on the cars when NC acquired them? It works for NC because they only need a modest sized fleet for the Piedmont service. With only 2 daily round-trip Piedmont trains at the moment, I assume they have two consists making round trips. At 346 miles round trip, those cars are seeing only modest daily mileage. Looking at the presentation, I guess they have acquired enough to support 4 daily trains?

It is neat that NC has different equipment for the Piedmont service because that provides variety to the system, and the bigger windows in those cars is a big plus. Looked like they rebuilt the frame and put into new bigger windows when they were overhauled because it was presumably easier to do to a box shape car.

But to say that Amtrak should be following NC's example and (repeatedly) rebuild their old equipment is to ignore the mileage numbers on the Amtrak equipment. According to the Amtrak Fleet Strategy plan V2, the average mileages are: Amfleet 1s = 4 million miles, Amfleet IIs = 5.4 million miles, Superliner Is = 5.7 million miles, and the Heritage fleet = 4.8 million miles plus however many miles they had on them prior to the inception of Amtrak data system in the 1970s. Eventually equipment has to be replaced.

 

[VentureForth]

I think the Piedmont hit gold with their...VENDING MACHINES. Very nice, very low maintenance, very low overhead, decent revenue source.

Oh, and did y'all notice a microwave for PASSENGER USE? They have volunteers that ride the rails back and forth to ensure cleanliness and to provide kids with coloring pages.

This is TOP NOTCH in corridor service. I would love to see THIS operation expand all the way to DC and Atlanta.

 

[had8ley]

I have to totally agree with your comments. I noticed the car they called "UP" as one of the Chicago & North Western business train cars that the UP broke up and sold off after the merger. NC is very smart in all their choices of equipment and adding life to cars Amtrak would send out to be cut up.

How many miles and years of active use were on the cars when NC acquired them? It works for NC because they only need a modest sized fleet for the Piedmont service. With only 2 daily round-trip Piedmont trains at the moment, I assume they have two consists making round trips. At 346 miles round trip, those cars are seeing only modest daily mileage. Looking at the presentation, I guess they have acquired enough to support 4 daily trains?

It is neat that NC has different equipment for the Piedmont service because that provides variety to the system, and the bigger windows in those cars is a big plus. Looked like they rebuilt the frame and put into new bigger windows when they were overhauled because it was presumably easier to do to a box shape car.

But to say that Amtrak should be following NC's example and (repeatedly) rebuild their old equipment is to ignore the mileage numbers on the Amtrak equipment. According to the Amtrak Fleet Strategy plan V2, the average mileages are: Amfleet 1s = 4 million miles, Amfleet IIs = 5.4 million miles, Superliner Is = 5.7 million miles, and the Heritage fleet = 4.8 million miles plus however many miles they had on them prior to the inception of Amtrak data system in the 1970s. Eventually equipment has to be replaced.

There are short haul runs where the equipment isn't squeezed by mega-miles. One that comes to mind is the Downeaster.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I think the Piedmont hit gold with their...VENDING MACHINES. Very nice, very low maintenance, very low overhead, decent revenue source.

Oh, and did y'all notice a microwave for PASSENGER USE? They have volunteers that ride the rails back and forth to ensure cleanliness and to provide kids with coloring pages.

This is TOP NOTCH in corridor service. I would love to see THIS operation expand all the way to DC and Atlanta.

I haven't had the Pleasure of riding this Route (Yet! :lol: ) but it Sounds Great EXCEPT for the Vending Machines! This reminds me of when the SP put these things into some of their Trains in the Late Pre-Amtrak days and the attendant expected a tip for changing your bills! Of course the purpose was to run off pax so they could petition the Govt. to drop service ASAP on these routes! IINM SP was the most anti-passenger road @ the end of the RR run Passenger Trains? :angry2: :unsure:

 

[TVRM610]

I agree with VentureForth... The lounge car is great! Free bottled water, free coffee, and cheap vending machines. A can of juice is only a dollar in the vending machine.

Oh and funny enough, the vending machines never made an announcement that they would be closed for a break.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I think the Piedmont hit gold with their...VENDING MACHINES. Very nice, very low maintenance, very low overhead, decent revenue source.

Oh, and did y'all notice a microwave for PASSENGER USE? They have volunteers that ride the rails back and forth to ensure cleanliness and to provide kids with coloring pages.

This is TOP NOTCH in corridor service. I would love to see THIS operation expand all the way to DC and Atlanta.

I haven't had the Pleasure of riding this Route (Yet! :lol: ) but it Sounds Great EXCEPT for the Vending Machines! This reminds me of when the SP put these things into some of their Trains in the Late Pre-Amtrak days and the attendant expected a tip for changing your bills! Of course the purpose was to run off pax so they could petition the Govt. to drop service ASAP on these routes! IINM SP was the most anti-passenger road @ the end of the RR run Passenger Trains? :angry2: :unsure:

While the Southern Pacific is famous for the Automatic Buffet Cars, the Santa Fe also dabbled with them on some of the second tier routes. I laugh at the idea of getting a $1 cocktail from a vending machine :lol:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-S-P-Railroad-Automatic-BUFFET-CAR-Menu-/310306230933?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483fb15295

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I think the Piedmont hit gold with their...VENDING MACHINES. Very nice, very low maintenance, very low overhead, decent revenue source.

Oh, and did y'all notice a microwave for PASSENGER USE? They have volunteers that ride the rails back and forth to ensure cleanliness and to provide kids with coloring pages.

This is TOP NOTCH in corridor service. I would love to see THIS operation expand all the way to DC and Atlanta.

I haven't had the Pleasure of riding this Route (Yet! :lol: ) but it Sounds Great EXCEPT for the Vending Machines! This reminds me of when the SP put these things into some of their Trains in the Late Pre-Amtrak days and the attendant expected a tip for changing your bills! Of course the purpose was to run off pax so they could petition the Govt. to drop service ASAP on these routes! IINM SP was the most anti-passenger road @ the end of the RR run Passenger Trains? :angry2: :unsure:

While the Southern Pacific is famous for the Automatic Buffet Cars, the Santa Fe also dabbled with them on some of the second tier routes. I laugh at the idea of getting a $1 cocktail from a vending machine :lol:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-S-P-Railroad-Automatic-BUFFET-CAR-Menu-/310306230933?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483fb15295

And I'm SURE the technology of the day would allow the machine to card everyone who wanted an 'adult beverage' :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[NY Penn]

I think the Piedmont hit gold with their...VENDING MACHINES. Very nice, very low maintenance, very low overhead, decent revenue source.

Oh, and did y'all notice a microwave for PASSENGER USE? They have volunteers that ride the rails back and forth to ensure cleanliness and to provide kids with coloring pages.

This is TOP NOTCH in corridor service. I would love to see THIS operation expand all the way to DC and Atlanta.

I haven't had the Pleasure of riding this Route (Yet! :lol: ) but it Sounds Great EXCEPT for the Vending Machines! This reminds me of when the SP put these things into some of their Trains in the Late Pre-Amtrak days and the attendant expected a tip for changing your bills! Of course the purpose was to run off pax so they could petition the Govt. to drop service ASAP on these routes! IINM SP was the most anti-passenger road @ the end of the RR run Passenger Trains? :angry2: :unsure:

While the Southern Pacific is famous for the Automatic Buffet Cars, the Santa Fe also dabbled with them on some of the second tier routes. I laugh at the idea of getting a $1 cocktail from a vending machine :lol:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item483fb15295

And I'm SURE the technology of the day would allow the machine to card everyone who wanted an 'adult beverage' :lol: :lol: :lol:

This technology already exists. Here is one example.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Some of the North Carolina restored cars are the ex Kansas City Southern coaches built in 1965 which were the newest non commuter passenger rail cars built by private railroads prior to Amtrak. I remember riding them on the Southern Belle in the late 60s before the train's discontinuance in November, 1969. KCS stayed in the passenger business longer than most of the smaller railroads and provided excellent service to the end. I am glad the cars are still in use on Amtrak.

Yes, indeed. It is rare that any equipment was ordered in 1965. The railroads almost completely stopped ordering new cars in the late 50s, much less the 60s. A brand new Denver Zephyr, slumbercoaches and newer (a second batch) hi level cars for the El Capitan were ordered in the mid 50s. Some of the original went over to help install a new train called the San Francisco Chief (with hand me down equipment).

The two big Canadian lines ordered their streamliners in the mid 50s.

And that is about it. Maybe one or two more orders but the KCS order---that was extremely hopeful on their part.

KCS was very brave to order those cars that late in the game.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I think the Piedmont hit gold with their...VENDING MACHINES. Very nice, very low maintenance, very low overhead, decent revenue source.

Oh, and did y'all notice a microwave for PASSENGER USE? They have volunteers that ride the rails back and forth to ensure cleanliness and to provide kids with coloring pages.

This is TOP NOTCH in corridor service. I would love to see THIS operation expand all the way to DC and Atlanta.

I haven't had the Pleasure of riding this Route (Yet! :lol: ) but it Sounds Great EXCEPT for the Vending Machines! This reminds me of when the SP put these things into some of their Trains in the Late Pre-Amtrak days and the attendant expected a tip for changing your bills! Of course the purpose was to run off pax so they could petition the Govt. to drop service ASAP on these routes! IINM SP was the most anti-passenger road @ the end of the RR run Passenger Trains? :angry2: :unsure:

While the Southern Pacific is famous for the Automatic Buffet Cars, the Santa Fe also dabbled with them on some of the second tier routes. I laugh at the idea of getting a $1 cocktail from a vending machine :lol:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item483fb15295

And I'm SURE the technology of the day would allow the machine to card everyone who wanted an 'adult beverage' :lol: :lol: :lol:

This technology already exists. Here is one example.

I was refering to 1970. Look at the link to ebay. It is for the SP's Automatic Buffet Car Menu which lists cocktails for $1.00 from a vending machine. I was 10 then, but am pretty confident no such technology existed then.

 

[LA Resident]

I think the Piedmont hit gold with their...VENDING MACHINES. Very nice, very low maintenance, very low overhead, decent revenue source.

Oh, and did y'all notice a microwave for PASSENGER USE? They have volunteers that ride the rails back and forth to ensure cleanliness and to provide kids with coloring pages.

This is TOP NOTCH in corridor service. I would love to see THIS operation expand all the way to DC and Atlanta.

I haven't had the Pleasure of riding this Route (Yet! :lol: ) but it Sounds Great EXCEPT for the Vending Machines! This reminds me of when the SP put these things into some of their Trains in the Late Pre-Amtrak days and the attendant expected a tip for changing your bills! Of course the purpose was to run off pax so they could petition the Govt. to drop service ASAP on these routes! IINM SP was the most anti-passenger road @ the end of the RR run Passenger Trains? :angry2: :unsure:

I think the PennCentral probably gave the SP a run for the money in the anti-customer service department toward the end. In fall 1971--AFTER Amtrak supposedly had taken over service--I wanted to ride from Boston to Washington. The South Station agent was a crotchedly old PennCentral clerk who was going to refuse my check, written on a Boston bank, because I had a California DL identification, not a Massachusetts DL ID, along with a local Boston college ID.

It took almost 40 minutes and the intervention of his supervisor's supervisor before the check was accepted. Those guys were TSA material three decades before the TSA came into existence!!

On the other hand, kudos to the Santa Fe which kept its service top-notch to the very end, and if memory serves me correctly, refused to allow Amtrak to use the Super Chief moniker because it didn't believe Amtrak could keep the LA-Chicago train up the Santa Fe Super Chief Standards (hence the name Southwest Chief).

 

[TVRM610]

Thanks so much for this link.. exactly what I was looking for!

Again.. any information on the Piedmont equipment would be greatly appreciated, wikkipedia only tells me so much. ha.

Go to this webpage: http://www.bytrain.org/quicklinks/default.html

and scroll down to click on

"Refurbishment & Rebuild

Program Presentation

January 6, 2010"

in the right hand column for a presentation with lots of neat info. and pictures/diagrams

 

[trainman74]

On the other hand, kudos to the Santa Fe which kept its service top-notch to the very end, and if memory serves me correctly, refused to allow Amtrak to use the Super Chief moniker because it didn't believe Amtrak could keep the LA-Chicago train up the Santa Fe Super Chief Standards (hence the name Southwest Chief).

Amtrak did keep the Super Chief name for the first few years of its existence, but then the Santa Fe withdrew permission and the train became "Southwest Limited." About 10 years later, Santa Fe allowed Amtrak to use "Chief" again (but apparently not "Super"), thus the current SWC name.

 

[cirdan]

But to say that Amtrak should be following NC's example and (repeatedly) rebuild their old equipment is to ignore the mileage numbers on the Amtrak equipment. According to the Amtrak Fleet Strategy plan V2, the average mileages are: Amfleet 1s = 4 million miles, Amfleet IIs = 5.4 million miles, Superliner Is = 5.7 million miles, and the Heritage fleet = 4.8 million miles plus however many miles they had on them prior to the inception of Amtrak data system in the 1970s. Eventually equipment has to be replaced.

I don't think mileage or age alone says much about condition. Just because a car has a certain age or has done a certain mileage does not imply that everything on that car is original. Parts that wear can be replaced, and often are on major refurbishments. Quite often it's like the story of the axe who's handle has been replaced twice and whose head has been replaced three times, but nobody doubts that it's still the original axe and admires how long its lasted.

Having large fleets of identical or near identical units is advantageous from a maintenance and planning perspective, and that's one reason why Amtrak shouldn't follow NCDOT's lead. But for NC, what they did was excellent and is the right thing for the job. However, generally refurbishment pushes back the date that you need to replace an item but cannot postpone it indefinitely. It is always better to replace large fleets continuosly rather than in big pushes as that way you can hedge your risk more and also spread the cost over a longer period.