Pre Amtrak: Handling of through sleepers in the Chicago hub

[railiner]

Prior to those Eagles, Trailways also had Flxible 'Vista-Liner's' that had similar 'eyebrow' windows. It's too bad that video didn't show the great view thru the Scenicruiser's upper deck windshield. One thing you can clearly see in that video, is the ten seats and the restroom on the lower level.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

A bit off-topic here.....but a follow-on to a couple of the posts above regarding VIA Transcontinental cars.

Until October 1978....The Canadian ran on CP with Montreal and Toronto sections combining or splitting at Sudbury......and the Super Continental on CN with the Montreal and Toronto sections combining or splitting at Capreol.

Beginning on October 29, 1978 VIA modified the two routes. The Super Continental ran from Montreal to Vancouver (there was no Toronto Section).....and the Canadian ran from Toronto to Vancouver (no Montreal section)

The Super departed from Gare Centrale in Montreal. Crossed over to CP at Dorval. Stayed on CP through the Ottawa Valley but went back to CN in North Bay to continue west through Capreol, Winnipeg and Edmonton to Vancouver.

If you were leaving from Toronto to points west on the CN/Super Continental route you had to take the ONR xTEE 'Northlander' to connected with the Super in North Bay, Ont. There was no Toronto to Capreol train.

The Canadian departed from Toronto but used CN to South Perry, Ont.....crossing back to CP there to continue west through Sudbury.

The main connection/transfer point now between the two trains was in Winnipeg and through Sleepers were to be exchanged between each route but Coach and Dayniter passengers had to change cars. Highlights below from the Oct '78 timetable:



The next summer it all changed. Beginning on June 17, 1979 the Canadian became the Montreal-Vancouver train.....and the Super Continental......the Toronto train. This was done to keep the xCP Stainless Steel fleet close to home at Glen Yard in Montreal for maintenance. (cars had been ferried from Toronto to the Glen in corridor trains)

Highlights from the June '79 timetable below:



And the Winnipeg (& Calgary) Stopover options......



There's been a lots of changes to the Transcontinental Service since VIA took over. Perhaps I'll go into more detail shortly over on the VIA Forum.

 

[lstone19]

4 - Was the sleeper to the Rock Island, which didn't change termini in Chicago, parked in the station, so the passengers could get off and on during the 6 hour layover, or was it parked on some yard track?

Probably not as simple as it sounds. Unlike today's Amtrak sleeping cars, many (most) sleeping cars back then had a forward end so even an NYC to RI move should have involved taking the car to a wye and turning it. Having recently ridden VIA's Canadian with its classic sleeping cars, all of them were oriented the same way so the single seats in the roomettes (Cabins For 1 in VIA parlance) faced forward.

 

[ehbowen]

Probably not as simple as it sounds. Unlike today's Amtrak sleeping cars, many (most) sleeping cars back then had a forward end so even an NYC to RI move should have involved taking the car to a wye and turning it. Having recently ridden VIA's Canadian with its classic sleeping cars, all of them were oriented the same way so the single seats in the roomettes (Cabins For 1 in VIA parlance) faced forward.

True, but every Chicago terminal station had access to a nearby wye or reversing loop track.

Edit To Add: Except for the CTA elevated station used by the North Shore's Electroliners, of course...but they were double-ended!

 

[jiml]

A bit off-topic here.....but a follow-on to a couple of the posts above regarding VIA Transcontinental cars.

Until October 1978....The Canadian ran on CP with Montreal and Toronto sections combining or splitting at Sudbury......and the Super Continental on CN with the Montreal and Toronto sections combining or splitting at Capreol.

Beginning on October 29, 1978 VIA modified the two routes. The Super Continental ran from Montreal to Vancouver (there was no Toronto Section).....and the Canadian ran from Toronto to Vancouver (no Montreal section)

The Super departed from Gare Centrale in Montreal. Crossed over to CP at Dorval. Stayed on CP through the Ottawa Valley but went back to CN in North Bay to continue west through Capreol, Winnipeg and Edmonton to Vancouver.

If you were leaving from Toronto to points west on the CN/Super Continental route you had to take the ONR xTEE 'Northlander' to connected with the Super in North Bay, Ont. There was no Toronto to Capreol train.

The Canadian departed from Toronto but used CN to South Perry, Ont.....crossing back to CP there to continue west through Sudbury.

The main connection/transfer point now between the two trains was in Winnipeg and through Sleepers were to be exchanged between each route but Coach and Dayniter passengers had to change cars. Highlights below from the Oct '78 timetable:



The next summer it all changed. Beginning on June 17, 1979 the Canadian became the Montreal-Vancouver train.....and the Super Continental......the Toronto train. This was done to keep the xCP Stainless Steel fleet close to home at Glen Yard in Montreal for maintenance. (cars had been ferried from Toronto to the Glen in corridor trains)

Highlights from the June '79 timetable below:



And the Winnipeg (& Calgary) Stopover options......



There's been a lots of changes to the Transcontinental Service since VIA took over. Perhaps I'll go into more detail shortly over on the VIA Forum.

Thanks for the clarification. It got me to pull out the old timetables and realize I had combined details of two trips about a year and a half apart. Never rely on memory when you get older. It doesn't change the sleeper substitution part in Winnipeg, but how it got there was different - on the combined Canadian/Super from Sudbury. I took pictures, but think I can find them?

Hoping you post the additional data in the VIA forum and I'll save further discussion for there if you do.

Now resume the Chicago discussion...

 

[railiner]

New York Central System was the only road that used two different terminal's in Chicago, and that complicated things, as that link to Classic Trains discussion pointed out. All the former Lake Shore and Michigan Southern route (today's LSL), used LaSalle Street Station. The former 'Big Four Route', used IC's Central Station, as they used trackage rights from Kankakee to and from Chicago. And the former Michigan Central, also used that station, however, there was at least one Michigan Central train going to LaSalle Street...and eventually all of them did, before the Penn Central merger. When Amtrak started up, the former Big Four train, the James Whitcomb Riley still used IC's station for about a year or so, until everything moved to Union Station.

The strangest regular route I experienced into Chicago, was aboard the B&O Capitol Limited, after Grand Central Station in Chicago was closed...it used a convoluted route to eventually stop at the North Western station. That lasted about a year or so, until Amtrak ended that train. I believe the C&O Pere Marquette's also used that route.

 

[Dakota 400]

One thing you can clearly see in that video, is the ten seats and the restroom on the lower level.

I didn't remember those 10 seats and the restroom on the Senicruiser's lower level, but that's the type of bus on which I traveled. Thanks for the video and refreshing my memory!

 

[Willbridge]

New York Central System was the only road that used two different terminal's in Chicago, and that complicated things, as that link to Classic Trains discussion pointed out. All the former Lake Shore and Michigan Southern route (today's LSL), used LaSalle Street Station. The former 'Big Four Route', used IC's Central Station, as they used trackage rights from Kankakee to and from Chicago. And the former Michigan Central, also used that station, however, there was at least one Michigan Central train going to LaSalle Street...and eventually all of them did, before the Penn Central merger. When Amtrak started up, the former Big Four train, the James Whitcomb Riley still used IC's station for about a year or so, until everything moved to Union Station.

The strangest regular route I experienced into Chicago, was aboard the B&O Capitol Limited, after Grand Central Station in Chicago was closed...it used a convoluted route to eventually stop at the North Western station. That lasted about a year or so, until Amtrak ended that train. I believe the C&O Pere Marquette's also used that route.

I wanted to ride that "tour of Chicago" route. It ran on B&O's Chicago terminal railway company.

 

[Willbridge]

To help with following the sleepers around Chicago, I'll attach this map, courtesy of the Pennsy.