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crescent2

crescent2

Conductor
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
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1,337
Location
a little south of normal
Long detailed post, sorry:

I've been thinking :huh: about changing my hoped-for Amtrak trip next year on the CZ to an around-the-US trip instead. I came up with an itinerary and would like your expert opinions on it, especially if you see any major problems that I'm overlooking. Except for the Crescent, I've never taken any of these trains. I would also like suggestions for the best time of year for it. I'm thinking late spring or mid-late summer for the longer daylight hours. I'll avoid June (July?) because of the likely bustitutions on the CZ at that time.

First, these are my priorities:

  • Scenery on the CZ, and secondarily the coastal scenery on the CS. This, along with simply the experience of riding trains, is my original purpose for the trip.
  • I want to avoid bustitutions or routing changes, especially on the CZ. Yes, I know anything can happen at any time, but I want to avoid scheduling my trip at likely times for any fairly common problems. The usual June track work on the CZ is the only one I'm aware of, so please tell me of any others.
  • I want to minimize connections and hotel stays. I know I'm passing up opportunities to explore wonderful places, but for several reasons, I want to mainly be on my way on the trains.
  • Of course, I also want to minimize the number of AGR redemptions that are required.
  • I want safer hotel areas and layover times and places. I will likely be traveling solo (my first solo travel of extended duration), and if not, my traveling companion would probably also be an older (ouch!) female.
  • This will probably be a once in a lifetime trip, so I want to avoid as many problems, schedule changes, etc. as careful planning can eliminate. Obviously, I'll just have to deal with any unforeseen ones.
My tentative itinerary (from Arrow using Multicity):

  • Sun: depart Anniston (or ATL?) #20 Cres, 3:59p
  • Mon: arrive WAS 9:53a; depart WAS #29 CL, 4:05p
  • Tues: arrive CHI 8:45a; depart CHI #5 CZ, 2:00p
  • Thurs: arrive DAV (or EMY?) 2:44p; overnight layover in DAV (now allowed :) ) -Hallmark Inn?
  • Fri: depart DAV (or EMY?) #11 CS, 6:50a; arrive LAX 9:00p; depart LAX #2 SL, 10:00p
  • Sun: arrive NOL 9:40p; overnight layover in NOL (hotel near station?)
  • Mon: depart NOL #20 Cres, 7:00a; arrive ATN (or ATL?) 3:59p

Some additional info: (Please bear with me, as it's usually simpler to provide more info up front rather than having several people post about something that just won't work for me.)

  • I plan to use AGR points for this trip. I think all the connections and layovers qualify now, and I am willing to do an additional redemption if needed, when I have enough points. I'm not trying to abuse the new guidelines; I would truly enjoy traveling around the country on Amtrak, and I want to avoid flying. I'm not sure if this will require two redemptions or three.
  • I plan to redeem for bedrooms, especially for the western segments, if I have enough points. Please don't tell me how extravagant that would be. There might be a second traveler, and I usually get up during the night and don't want to have to traipse down the hall in my pj's (not a pretty sight). Plus, there are at least limited views out both sides of the train from a bedroom.
  • I don't want to prolong the trip more than necessary or needlessly increase the miles traveled. I think I can handle this itinerary, but I'll probably be eager to get back home by the end.
The pros that I see:

  • Circles the US and includes the wb CZ.
  • All connections and layovers should qualify under the new AGR guidelines.
  • No flights needed. This greatly cuts down on additional expenses, and makes it more feasible to cancel or change the dates of travel should an emergency occur.
  • Most connection times seem adequate and are scheduled at reasonable hours.
  • Can be done in only a little over a week.
  • I should have a few hours in DC and Chicago--maybe enough time to find a geocache and glimpse a few nearby things. (I've spent time in DC a few times, but have only had a short layover in the Chicago airport, so I don't count that.) I'll also have some time in Davis (or EMY?).
  • Hopefully only two hotel stays, Davis (or EMY?) and New Orleans. Davis seems safe and pleasant, with a hotel close to the station, and I'm familiar enough with NOL.
Cons:

  • Connection time in LAX is only one hour (but guaranteed), although the AU consensus seems to be that it's probably a safe one. I know that many might hope for a stay in LAX courtesy of Amtrak, but I don't. I also wouldn't want to be pulled off the CS early during the best scenery, but catching up on a bus out of LAX would be OK by me. I know it could happen but I hope to avoid it if possible.
  • If arrival in NOL is late, the layover might be only part of an overnight but still require the hotel.
  • It may require three AGR redemptions. Re-entering the central zone on the way home will be a separate one-zone, and they may not let me travel all three zones on the first redemption. Thoughts on that?
Specific questions that I can think of now; I'm sure I'll have more later:

  • Are the usual track work busitutions on the CZ normally only in June, or do they continue into July? Any other common problems that usually occur at a specific time and therefore should be planned around?
  • Any other pros and cons as to best time of year?
  • Davis or Emeryville for the overnight layover between the CZ and CS? According to AGR Insider, either should be allowed. I like the look of Davis better, but am I overlooking something important?
  • If Davis, is the Hallmark Inn still a good hotel for the overnight? Anyone on AU stayed there lately?
  • Any suggestions for a good hotel very close to the NOL station? We always stayed in the FQ, but I'd prefer one closer to the station for just the overnight.
  • Your thoughts on whether AGR might allow a 3-zone redemption for most of (the travel before re-entering the central zone) my trip? I don't know why they'd not allow at least WAS (or maybe a little farther south)-LAX, but I'm not sure they'll allow me to start at ATN or ATL, because obviously there's a more direct route to the west coast from that far south. Understandable, but I'd have to rack up some more points for that. It's not practical for me to board any farther north than ATL, and I'd need a roomette because it's an overnight to WAS. That would be kind of expensive to pay for with $$, but maybe better than using an additional AGR redemption? Thoughts?
  • Is this a bit much for my first solo (probably) Amtrak trip? I'm pretty independent, as long as I've planned well and have a good idea of what to expect.
Again, sorry for such a detailed post. I just have to be under the impression (delusion?) that I have my ducks in a row for such a trip. I appreciate all comments and suggestions!

PS-- A special :hi: to June the Coach Rider for being an inspiration to consider greatly expanding my trip!
 
If you return via the Empire Builder, you can do it no hotels.

I'd do ATL-WAS-CHI-EMY-PDX-CHI-CVS-ATL on the Crescent-Cap-CZ-CS-EB-Cardinal-Crescent.

You'd miss out on the California Coast running that way, but make up for it with getting the Columbia River Gorge, Glacier NP and the whole EB route.

If you don't want to start in ATL, make the Anniston to ATL segment paid with cash, it'll be cheap.

Edit: Making the start and end at ATL, you can do it in 2 3-zone redemptions:

1: ATL-PDX (20-29-5-14)

2. PDX-ATL (28-50-19)
 
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Ryan said:
If you return via the Empire Builder, you can do it no hotels.
I'd do ATL-WAS-CHI-EMY-PDX-CHI-CVS-ATL on the Crescent-Cap-CZ-CS-EB-Cardinal-Crescent.

You'd miss out on the California Coast running that way, but make up for it with getting the Columbia River Gorge, Glacier NP and the whole EB route.

If you don't want to start in ATL, make the Anniston to ATL segment paid with cash, it'll be cheap.
Click to expand...
I was sitting there thinking the CS from EMY to LAX? One would miss out on the magnificent scenery above in Oregon and Washington, which in my opinion rivals or surpasses the scenery of the Zephyr.

Definitely if paying in points, don't waste them on Anniston to ATL. My husband and I had a bedroom from HUN to ATL and paid to go to Anniston, it was cheap and we saved a bunch of points for something better.
 
Here's a little different route, with the best of both worlds (on the CS).

Consider ATL-WAS-CHI-EMY (CZ)-PDX (or SEA on the CS)! This would be 3 zones. (HINT: In PDX, the hotels are less at the airport and the MAX stop is next to Union Station in front of the Greyhound Terminal. Catch a Green Line train (there's also a Yellow Line train that stops there!) to "Gateway" and the transfer to the Red Line to the airport. It ends right at the airport.)

On the return, take the CS to LAX connecting to the SL to NOL. If it can be added, add the Crescent to ATL. This return trip will be 2 zones!
 
When I first started planning on traveling, I set this up as my big adventure, I changed it a little to fit your starting point rather than mine.

Dates can be figured out according to how many overnights you want off the trains and if you want to extend it to Florida.

Crescent to Washington

Capitol Limited – Washington to Chicago

California Zephyr – Chicago to Davis or Emeryville

Coast Starlight – Emeryville/Davis to Portland or Seattle (overnight in either)

Empire Builder – Seattle/Portland to Chicago

City of New Orleans – Chicago to New Orleans (overnight in NOL)

Sunset Limited – New Orleans to Los Angeles (runs three days a week, schedule accordingly)

Southwest Chief – Los Angeles to Chicago

Capitol Limited – Chicago to Washington

Crescent home

Or you could add the Silver Service to Florida before going home. This way you could hit all of the LD trains west of the Mississippi and most east also.
 
Please consider Sacramento as an alternative to Davis. My favorite HI hostel is within walking distance of the station and there are nice geocaches there. I liked the virtual in front of the Federal Courthouse near the station.

You also get the chance to see the California Railroad Museum in Old Town SAC.

My first Illinois geocache find was across the street from CUS and I found it without using my GPS.

I found several other caches in Chicago including "one end of Rt. 66".

When I use a 30 day USA Rail Pass, I spend a night in Glenwood Springs on the CZ or a night in ABQ on the SW Chief.

If you have the AGR points by all means use them. If traveling solo I wouldn't take a bedroom just because someone might see you in your PJ's (JMO).
 
Thanks, guys! All great ideas. This is why I love AU, and why multiple heads are better than one.

I've never truly considered taking the EB, but I am really liking that suggestion. I've seen much more of the southern half of the US than the northern half, and I've seen the Pacific, so the EB makes sense. I'm a little worried about the connections, though.

Using the ATL station instead of ATN is no problem. I actually live much closer to ATL, but don't like to drive in the ATL traffic so we started using ATN after our first few trips. I can if needed, or someone might drop me off and pick me up, and if so, they'd prefer ATL.

I am spoiled to looking at 1-zone AGR redemptions (DEN-DAV), so I got sticker shock when looking at 2- and 3-zone redemptions! I may have to lower my SOL`for at least part of the trip. At present I have about 68,000 points (not bad for starting in Dec.) and haven't bought any this year, but no way will I be able to do two 3-zone BR's (120,000) by next year.

I thought about doing a 2-zone (east & central) roomette for the first part, then a 1-zone BR for the western zone, and another 2-zone roomette for the last part. Would that probably work? (Wondering if they'd let me go from DEN to Wolf Pt. on one redemption?) Or, if I took the CONO from CHI on the way back home, one more 1-zone roomette (central) should do it, as ATL is a border city.

I really want a BR for the scenic western parts because of the views out both sides of the train (mustn't hog the SSL!), and I admit to being somewhat of a germaphobe. I don't mind the toilets so much, but for brushing my teeth and cleaning my contacts, I'd love having my own private sink for at least part of the trip. The shower/toilet would be nice, too, and more space would be a good anti-claustrophobia break. I'll have to go roomette for parts, though.

What concerns me most are the tighter connections between LD trains at Portland (CS/EB, only 1 hr. 13 min.) and Chicago (EB/Card, 2 hrs., or even CL 3 hrs.). How likely am I to be able to make those connections? On a related note, reading the thread on the EB's delays "starting early" this year doesn't make me feel better. Staying overnight wouldn't be terrible, except all the sleepers would probably be sold out on the next trains, and I would not be able to sleep at all in coach and would feel half-dead for the rest of the trip. But if I planned to stay overnight, then that would mean yet another AGR redemption, so that won't work (assuming they'll let me go DEN-Wolf Pt. on one redemption).

Would May be a good time of year and be before the CZ and EB problems usually begin? Would April or August be better, although the daylight hours aren't as long? All I know about is the June CZ track work, so help me, please. I want to plan around problems that are foreseeable.

Also, what about those tight connections? They seem very iffy! Are the other, longer connections fairly safe ones?

Any flashes of insight on maximizing my points? I'm not very creative and sometimes don't see rather obvious things.

Thanks again, all! Keep the suggestions coming.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about the connections - they wouldn't be guaranteed if there were frequently issues.

Late May is probably best. Must earlier and you run into potential flooding on the Empire Builder. August would be good too.

Your 2 2-zone roomette and 1 1-zone BR only saves 20,000 points.

Apply for the Chase Sapphire Preferred credit card. Get a 40,000 point signup bonus after spending $3,000 in 3 months. The points transfer 1 to 1 into Amtrak. If you want, cancel the card (AFTER you transfer the points out) before the first year is up to duck the $95 annual fee (I'm keeping mind because I like taking the points I earn and using them on Amtrak, United or Southwest).

Your 70,000 points plus the 40,000 point bonus, plus the 3,000 for the initial spend put you within striking distance of the 120,000 you need for the 2 3-zone bedrooms.
 
Oh, Tom: SAC was the connection that Arrow brought up for ATL-PDX (although I think DAV would be allowed, too, but I haven't checked the connection times), so I am considering it. Could I hang out in the station until the CS arrives, and is it safe for me to do so?

You haven't seen me in pj's and sans makeup. You're lucky.

If you will PM me with your address, I'll send you the brand new pink sparkly pathtag version, with xxx's and ooo's from all the Caching Girls Gone Wild. :)
 
Thanks, Ryan. I just don't know if I can spend $3,000 on it in three months. Of course, I thought that when I got the regular card, and then it turned out I did. But I bought a few pieces of furniture then and won't be doing that again.

You are correct on the AGR totals. And a 1-zone roomette isn't much less than a 2-zone. :( I sure wish I could sleep in coach, but I know better.

I'll figure out something, I guess. I really want to do the EB now.
 
If you're transferring from the CZ to the CS at SAC, be aware the CS does not depart until midnight. Actually, to connect from the CZ to the CS, a connect can be made in EMY also. You board earlier then midnight (I think about 9 pm) meaning you could get to sleep earlier if you want. You may also receive dinner I think. This connection is also guaranteed.

I would not be very concerned about the connection in PDX. If necessary, they may bus the connecting passengers between the trains. A few years ago, I was bused between Albany, OR and PDX between 14 and 28. The trip up I-5 is actually faster than the CS!
 
Cardinal gets you home without a hotel. CONO forces a overnight layover in NO.

Rhetorical question: Imagine putting every dollar you spend through the card. Cable bills, Cell phone bills, gas, groceries, dinner out, etc, etc. Can you get close?

It takes a little bot of doing, but with a conscious effort, you can pile up the points.
 
Many people (myself included) consider the eastbound Cardinal to have the best scenery in the east, but it only operates 3 days a week plus it is a single level train that has dining well below the Crescent. The CONO is a Superliner that runs daily, but requires an overnight (at your expense) in NOL.
 
Traveler, thanks! 9:00p is a better boarding time than hanging around until midnight. Is the connection at EMY usually made? What does Amtrak usually do if it's missed? Also thanks for the additional info. (posted while I was writing this post)

Ryan, thanks also. I might get close if I put absolutely everything I could on the card, but I just don't have a lot of bills (not complaining!), and I have them all on bank draft and would have to undo those. I do spend more before Christmas, so if I waited, it would be a little easier.

The CONO would save a zone, and NOL would probably be my preferred place to overnight if I had to, just because I'm familiar with it. Also, the connection in CHI isn't quite as tight (4.5 hrs.). I don't know how often it's missed, however. From the "EB Summer Blues" thread, apparently the EB/CL connection, which is longer than that for the EB/Cardinal, has been frequently missed recently. Do you have figures on the EB/CONO connection? What usually happens if it's missed? Thanks-
 
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I posted a graph of the delays in that thread - 4.5 hours doesn't look too bad. I really need to run the data for the other years to give you a better picture.

The CL is also getting a 30 minutes later departure coming up soon.

The complaints about the Card are far overblown in my opinion.
 
I saw your graph, thanks so much!

Yeah, 4.5 hrs. is better than 2!

I'm not that worried about the Card's food being worse, and single level trains are fine with me. I'd love to take it but the connection scares me.

The CL's extra 30 minutes will help a little, too, but that would be backtracking if I took it.
 
You could do the Cardinal on the way out, that would probably work better.

That's a 6 hour connection in CVS, which is a nice place to spend some time.

It's also a really nice safe connection in Chicago.
 
Without looking up the times, I think the CZ arrives EMY about 3 pm and the CS departs about 9 pm. So the CZ would have to be 6 hours late to miss the CS. And if the CZ was late, you could still get off early at either Martinez, Davis or Sacramento to connect to the CS.
 
Traveler, thanks, and would the conductor tell/let me do that? (getting off at an earlier stop)

Ryan, I will look into taking the Cardinal on the first leg of the trip. I've heard good things about CVS. Thanks much. Still gotta work on more points.

I suppose I could always skip the eastern zone altogether, and head for NOL, CONO-CHI-then west and backtrack home on the CONO. That would be two 2-zones (I think). I'd be doing my old standby route on the Crescent twice, but I guess that'd be alright.

But I kind of liked that "around the US" thing. We'll see....
 
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OK, here's 3 years. If 2012 was bad, 2011 was TERRIBLE. 2010 was a pretty decent year, though.

8_CHI_2012_2010.png


No issues at all with getting off early. If you tell the Conductor you're connecting, they'll probably help you out with the timing.
 
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