Question about cross-country train trip

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Kevinx244974

Train Attendant
Joined
Dec 8, 2021
Messages
29
Location
France
Hello everyone ! I'm french so firstly, forgive me for my mistakes, I'm currently planning a cross country trip accros the USA from Est coast to West coast for spring/summer 2022.

I planned to start from NYC and then take the Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited (which one is the best ?) amtrak train to Chicago, then, take the California Zephyr to San Francisco.

I want to get the best experience with both the most beautiful and the most diverse landscapes and cities, so I'm questionning myself about 2 options :

1) take the Coast Starlight to LA and enjoy the border of the Pacific Ocean, visit LA and then, take the Southwest Chief train to come back to Chicago (I heard that this trip isn't the best for the view but to my french point of view, it seem the most "american" landscape with desert, red rocks and country side landscapes)

2) take the Coast Starlight from San Francisco to Seattle (I rode that the view to North bounder is the best), and then take the Empire Builder to come back to Chicago (maybe stop to Whitefish to visit one day the Glacier National Park?) but I will loose the desert landscape (maybe the California Zephyr is enough ?).

What could you recommend ? Thank you by advance !
 
Welcome to Amtrak Unlimited!

My first cross country trip in 2010, I took the Cardinal, then California Zephyr to Denver then on to Sacramento. From there, I took the Coast Starlight to Seattle and spent a couple of days. Then I took the Empire Builder to West Glacier and spent a day in Glacier National Park and then back to Chicago. (In 2019, I took a similar route, but Capitol Limited instead of Cardinal and without the stops in Denver and West Glacier and only one night in Seattle.)

I chose that route in 2010 because I had not yet visited Seattle and wanted to do so. I chose the Cardinal because I had heard the scenery was great and I had already traveled on the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited. I recently traveled on the Cardinal and was disappointed. The Lake Shore Limited, in my opinion, is a nicer train. The Cardinal only has one sleeper and sells out very quickly and does not have a dedicated dining car.

When I traveled in 2010, I made my reservations 11 months in advance because I wanted to make sure I could get the accommodations I wanted (late summer). Trains get fairly full during the summer months and the rooms can be fairly expensive.

Either route, in my opinion is a great one, but I prefer the Empire Builder.

Enjoy your trip.
 
Thank you a lot for sharing your experience !

11 months in advance ? I should maybe but with covid I always feel this kind of insecurity to pay in advance..

What I readed is that Cardinal is more scenic than Lake Shore Limited but taking into account the whole experience, the LSL is probably the best.

The option 1 remind me what's typically is american countryside, we don't have this kind of landscapes in France, that's why I think I'm still curious about Southwest Chief, even if California Zephyr give for a part this atmosphere I'm scared to not enough enjoy it, probably I'm wrong ahahah.

The option 2 seem clearly the best, I readed that from Portland it seem give the best view to the east bounder (with the Columbia river) but doing that way I will loose Seattle.

Then I'm divided between the option 1, probably not the most scenic but represent what's for me the typical american countryside and most unique landscapes states with the view to the Ocean from coast Starlight and the option 2 probably most scenic, memorable I think, but landscapes looks more to what I could find in France (fir forests, mountains, rivers).
 
I agree that Southwest Chief would be a good choice for someone coming from France as the landscape is vastly different (based on my assumption of what the landscape is in France as I've never been across the pond ;) ). I live on the east coast between Washington DC and New York City - aka lots of trees. I've taken the Southwest Chief twice now, once in each direction, and am glad I did for the same reason you want to - to see landscape I've not seen before in person.
 
You said spring/summer.

I rode the Cardinal in the spring=lots of fog and clouds.

The Empire Builder crosses the Rockies at night.

If you want to visit Seattle or Portland-- ok, but I took the Coast Starlight all the way to Vancouver BC then back south to San Francisco bay (actually I choose Davis as my transition point) so I could take the California Zepher back east.

I choose to travel west on the Southest chief to LA because if you travel the other direction you are forced to stay overnight in Southern California layover.

So:
Washington - CHI : Lakeshore

CHI - LA. :SW Chief

LA - SEA : Coast Starlight > Davis, CA

Davis - Chi California Zepher.
 
Thank you both of you 🙂!

Is the California Zepher view back east the same as west ?

That's what I'm currently thinking as trip :

Arriving NYC ==> Chicago by Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited ==> California Zepher : Denver ==> Salt Lake City ==> San Francisco ==> Coast Starlight : Los Angeles ==> Southwest Chief : Chicago.

Or :
Arriving NYC ==> Chicago by Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited ==> California Zepher : Denver ==> Salt Lake City ==> San Francisco ==> Coast Starlight : Seattle or Portland ==> Empire Builder : Whitefish ==> Chicago.
 
Kevinx244974 said:
Is the California Zepher view back east the same as west ?
Click to expand...
The route is the same but time of day is different. Unfortunately sometimes the times change because of delays.

SW Chief scenery is not as special as California Zepher but I would guess as good or better than Empire Builder.

It has some great potential stops, such as Dodge City, Albuquerque, and Grand Canyon (from either Flagstaff or Williams). The views through New Mexico are nice, especially between Raton and Albuquerque.
 
Welcome. Here are my two cents:

-- East of Chicago, the Cardinal does have some lovely scenery in Virginia and West Virginia, but it's a much longer trip than the Lake Shore. And the Lake Shore also has some great scenery, starting with the 140-mile ride along the Hudson River from New York to Albany. In the spring or summer when the days are longer, you'd also get to see some of the Mohawk River valley, which it follows for about 75 miles west of Schenectady. The Lake Shore also has more sleeping car capacity. Neither train has real dining service at this point (instead there are prepackaged entrees reheated and served in their freezer tubs), so a shorter ride with fewer meal periods might be desirable. Both trains arrive in Chicago about the same time. The Lake Shore leaves New York the previous afternoon at 3:40 p.m., while the Cardinal requires leaving the previous morning before 7 a.m. Plus the Lake Shore runs every day (the Cardinal departs only three days per week), so it offers more options for connections to the west.

-- West of Chicago. For spectacular scenery alone, the Zephyr westbound and the Empire Builder eastbound is the way to go. The northbound Coast Starlight from California also makes a great scenic run through the Cascades of Oregon (much of which is covered in darkness southbound). The Empire Builder's trip through the Rockies is much shorter than the Zephyr's and is more reliably seen eastbound than westbound, when it's often covered in darkness.

That said, the Southwest Chief does offer some great mountain railroading, particularly around the Glorieta pass in northern New Mexico and the Raton pass from NM to Colorado. And it does take you through that classic, dusty southwestern American desert landscape, so I can see why you might want to take it. It's not take-your-breath-away scenery like the Zephyr's, but there's plenty to see on the Chief route.
 
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Kevinx244974 said:
Hello everyone ! I'm french so firstly, forgive me for my mistakes, I'm currently planning a cross country trip accros the USA from Est coast to West coast for spring/summer 2022.

I planned to start from NYC and then take the Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited (which one is the best ?) amtrak train to Chicago, then, take the California Zephyr to San Francisco.

I want to get the best experience with both the most beautiful and the most diverse landscapes and cities, so I'm questionning myself about 2 options :

1) take the Coast Starlight to LA and enjoy the border of the Pacific Ocean, visit LA and then, take the Southwest Chief train to come back to Chicago (I heard that this trip isn't the best for the view but to my french point of view, it seem the most "american" landscape with desert, red rocks and country side landscapes)

2) take the Coast Starlight from San Francisco to Seattle (I rode that the view to North bounder is the best), and then take the Empire Builder to come back to Chicago (maybe stop to Whitefish to visit one day the Glacier National Park?) but I will loose the desert landscape (maybe the California Zephyr is enough ?).

What could you recommend ? Thank you by advance !
Click to expand...
I essentially did option 1 this past June (Lake Shore Springfield - Chicago) - a really great trip. But they say option 2 is great too.
 
Not sure if you're aware that the California Zephyr doesn't actually go to San Francisco. The endpoint is is actually in Emeryville, which is located between Berkeley and Oakland. If your goal is to visit San Francisco, Amtrak provides a coordinated bus service. And "service" is kind of a generous term these days as there used to be multiple stops in San Francisco (now just one) as well as checked-in baggage service to one stop.
 
Kevinx244974 said:
11 months in advance ? I should maybe but with covid I always feel this kind of insecurity to pay in advance..

What I readed is that Cardinal is more scenic than Lake Shore Limited but taking into account the whole experience, the LSL is probably the best.
Click to expand...

I booked 11 months in advance for my 2010 trip. I had the time available and used the "expertise" of Amtrak Unlimited members to help me plan that trip. I really wanted to take the Cardinal in bedroom B and I knew that it sold out fairly quickly, so I planned way in advance. Also, I believe, at that time, prices were less 11 months in advance.

Although I think the Lake Shore Limited is very scenic, I believe the Cardinal may be more scenic in places. However, I think the Lake Shore Limited overall is a better ride. I plan to take the Lake Shore Limited on my next cross country trip.

I believe the scenery on the California Zephyr is better going westbound and the scenery on the Empire Builder is better going eastbound.
 
tgstubbs1 said:
The route is the same but time of day is different. Unfortunately sometimes the times change because of delays.

SW Chief scenery is not as special as California Zepher but I would guess as good or better than Empire Builder.

It has some great potential stops, such as Dodge City, Albuquerque, and Grand Canyon (from either Flagstaff or Williams). The views through New Mexico are nice, especially between Raton and Albuquerque.
Click to expand...
Amtrak no longer stops at Williams. You have to go to Flagstaff then take a connection bus.
 
AmtrakBlue said:
Amtrak no longer stops at Williams. You have to go to Flagstaff then take a connection bus.
Click to expand...
That SUCKS!!

Flagstaff is a nice town, and the station is well located near some good restaurants and hotels.

There's no steam train to the Grand Canyon (like Williams) but there are shuttles and tours from Flagstaff.
 
tgstubbs1 said:
There's no steam train to the Grand Canyon (like Williams) but there are shuttles and tours from Flagstaff.
Click to expand...
Apparently there is a shuttle that runs from Flagstaff Amtrak Station to Williams Grand Canyon Hotel four times a day and cost $24. I suppose one would take that to get to the Williams to Grand Canyon train.
 
If you ask me seeing the Grand Canyon is a good reason to take the Chief. A person could overnight in Flagstaff, see the Canyon and continue on the Chief the next day.
 
Kevin
1) Let me welcome you to the USA first.
2) Everybody here has great ideas. No matter what you do you will have a great trip!
3) I would like to suggest getting off the train in some of the small towns to get a feel for non-urban America. You may like it.
 
A total aside here, but there are actually parts of southern France that look surprisingly like the American west and southwest (more populated and wetter, but still surprisingly similar). I think the pure, sheer vastness of North America is what will impress.

That said, also consider the Zephyr and stopping in Grand Junction and renting a car to see the Colorado National Monument, the National Parks around Moab (Arches, Canyonlands) and the other parks in Southern Utah - which could be combined with Grand Canyon, perhaps coming north from Flagstaff to Grand Junction or SLC (Salt Lake City)?

Of course, what American's consider "typical" would probably be the farmland of the Midwest or whatever region they are from...
 
It's kind of a challenge to traverse the 'big ditch' area North to South and would be quite a distance. Are you suggesting a one way rental and traveling part way on the Chief, part way on the Zepher?

I just completed a drive through Colorado past Moab and to Jacobs Lake, a town portal to the North rim of the Grand Canyon, in my CX5. Back to Grand Junction via St. George on the Interstate s) totaled over 1000 miles.

There is amazing scenery along the way. I stopped near Mexican Hat. Excellent dark skies there for stargazing and photography.

mexican-hat-lodge~2.jpg
 
Ha! Mexican Hat - ate hamburgers there in like 1980 or 81 when my Dad and I (and a colleague from Germany) hiked the canyon (up into snow on the South Rim, in fact, but that's another story) and were on our way back to the Midwest via Grand Junction.

Yes, that was my suggestion - drive from Flagstaff to the north.
 
One way to get a fairly good overhead view of the scenery along any Amtrak route is to log onto... https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/ ..., delete all but Passenger Rail in the Layers tab and then select Imagery in the Base Maps tab. It's the best way I know of to "see for yourself" without relying on opinions of others.

Some here downplay the scenery along the route of the Empire Builder, but I think the squillions of hectares of wheat fields in Montana show why it's often called "Big Sky Country" on their license plates. But then I'm the kind of person who likes most anything seen through a train window because I get to do it so infrequently.
 
Kevinx244974 said:
Hello everyone ! I'm french so firstly, forgive me for my mistakes, I'm currently planning a cross country trip accros the USA from Est coast to West coast for spring/summer 2022.

I planned to start from NYC and then take the Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited (which one is the best ?) amtrak train to Chicago, then, take the California Zephyr to San Francisco.

I want to get the best experience with both the most beautiful and the most diverse landscapes and cities, so I'm questionning myself about 2 options :

1) take the Coast Starlight to LA and enjoy the border of the Pacific Ocean, visit LA and then, take the Southwest Chief train to come back to Chicago (I heard that this trip isn't the best for the view but to my french point of view, it seem the most "american" landscape with desert, red rocks and country side landscapes)

2) take the Coast Starlight from San Francisco to Seattle (I rode that the view to North bounder is the best), and then take the Empire Builder to come back to Chicago (maybe stop to Whitefish to visit one day the Glacier National Park?) but I will loose the desert landscape (maybe the California Zephyr is enough ?).

What could you recommend ? Thank you by advance !
Click to expand...
The Southwest Chief is one of my favorite trains, the views are good. If the views weren’t good, I wouldn’t have taken it 18 times.You won’t be disappointed if that’s part of your trip
 
I highly recommend the Cardinal. The views through the New River Gorge and under the bridge are not to be missed. I also recommend the Portland end of the Empire Builder (often called the Baby Builder). You can immediately take your dinner to the lounge car and enjoy your evening traveling through the Columbia River Gorge, right on the river's edge.
 
Just the other day I sketched out my dream trip from Boston. I’ve always wanted to try Canada’s Vis Rail.(more costly than Amtrak)

The LSL to the EB and then .... explore Canaala using ViaRail - Vancouver to Banff (very beautiful) then fly the mountains to Seattle and pick up Amtrak to San Francisco then the CZ to Chi

Take the LSL to Buffalo NY and take a ViaRail to Halifax.Nova Scotia - a section of this route is “the Ocean”

Parts of Canada French Canadian and isre not 109% compatible with the French language.
 

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