Restore Passenger Service to Southern Montana?

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Deni said:
Yeah, but I haven't been able to find any specific info about it, such as potential start date.
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I could be mistaken, but I believe the grant will cover the first few (3?) years of operating costs. However the states (presumably some combination of IL, MN, and WI) still need to put together funding for track improvements and sort out equipment needs.
 
Passenger service using trains is the future because air travel is doomed due to the pandemic, which will not go away. You can distance yourself on a train ( book a sleeper!) and there is more room to reconfigure the seats, rooms and sleeper accommodations. W
Hat is missing in all these discussions is the vast of train sets, stations, rail routes and controls. I hope the Rail Passenger Association and Amtrak get us some costs so we can understand and innovate solutions. Amtrak is stuck in a rut when it comes to innovation. !
 
Herb said:
Passenger service using trains is the future because air travel is doomed due to the pandemic, which will not go away. You can distance yourself on a train ( book a sleeper!) and there is more room to reconfigure the seats, rooms and sleeper accommodations. W
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Passenger rail may, indeed have a good future bu not for the reasons outlined here:

1) The pandemic will go away. Maybe not this year, or even next year, but sooner or later there will be a treatment, a vaccine, or the virus will become less deadly. (Killing hosts isn't really good for viruses.)
2) Sleepers are only available on a small percentage of the passenger trains run by Amtrak. Most people ride short distances in coach or business class, and while the seating is more spacious than airline coach seating, when the train is full (and those of us who support passenger rail would like to see the trains full and bringing in lots of revenue most of the time) there is no social distancing. Passengers who take longer trips actually have in increased risk of catching the virus because they're exposed to the ambient environment in the railcar for a longer period of time than if they flew.
3) Railcars have no more room than airplanes. Right now, it's customary for Amtrak to offer 2X2 coach seating with a larger seat pitch than current airline coach, but there's no reason they couldn't offer 3x3 seating just as cramped as anything the airlines offer. BTW, I once took the Capitol Corridor to Sacremento, and the seat pitch on those California cars was more like that of an airliner than and Superliner. Also, lots of commuter services right now offer cramped 3x2 seating.

Bottom line is that sooner of later lots people will be traveling again, and if they have to go really long distances, most of them are probably going to fly, just like before the pandemic. The numbers of people traveling will be a good bit less than before, but that might have as much to do with the recession as it does with the pandemic.

I don't think the pandemic changes anything about rail advocacy. Corridor rail service deserves support because it gets people out of cars and short-haul flights. Long-distance rail service provides access to mobility to far-flung rural communities. This provides benefits in reductions in greenhouse gas and other air emissions, reduction in traffic congestion, improved safety as compared to everybody driving, and so forth. Short-term revenue will be tight for everybody involved for a while, but ridership (and revenue) will eventually snap back.
 
It is kind of hard to be successful in getting increased service when all "advocates" push for at the federal level is running the existing long distance trains twice a day and restoring a handful of the ones lost over Amtrak's existence. Amtrak needs state and interstate corridor services and there needs to be federal funding for it. But even if we got funding for all 3 priorities, its incredibly unlikely that the Corona virus will even be around in 10 years when the rail improvements would conceivably be finished and the equipment starting to be delivered.
 
sttom said:
It is kind of hard to be successful in getting increased service when all "advocates" push for at the federal level is running the existing long distance trains twice a day and restoring a handful of the ones lost over Amtrak's existence. Amtrak needs state and interstate corridor services and there needs to be federal funding for it. But even if we got funding for all 3 priorities, its incredibly unlikely that the Corona virus will even be around in 10 years when the rail improvements would conceivably be finished and the equipment starting to be delivered.
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The Corona Virus, like all SARS Viruses, isnt going anywhere! Itll be with us always, theres no "Magic" that will make it just disappear like a certain Politician claimed!
 
Palmetto said:
Here's a bit of info. Scroll down.

U.S. Department of Transportation Announces More Than $22 Million in Grants to Restore and Enhance Intercity Passenger Rail Network | FRA
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Yeah, that's where I first saw the news about it. There's really no info in there except the money they got from the Feds. I've not seen anything about a potential start of service date. Or what equipment will be used, stations served (assume the same as the EB, but maybe there's a plan for more?), etc.
 
Deni said:
Yeah, that's where I first saw the news about it. There's really no info in there except the money they got from the Feds. I've not seen anything about a potential start of service date. Or what equipment will be used, stations served (assume the same as the EB, but maybe there's a plan for more?), etc.
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I did see information about stations. The new train is planned to stop at all EB stations east of MSP but also stop at the Hiawatha stations (Milwaukee Airport and Sturtevant).
 
Deni said:
Yeah, that's where I first saw the news about it. There's really no info in there except the money they got from the Feds. I've not seen anything about a potential start of service date. Or what equipment will be used, stations served (assume the same as the EB, but maybe there's a plan for more?), etc.
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There's a study somewhere on the MnDOT website from a few years ago that looked at possible schedules. Equipment would seem to be a guess at this point. Assuming all pre-COVID trains return, the Midwest Siemens cars would seem to be all spoken for but the Horizon equipment being replaced by Siemens would possibly be available. Or one might imagine an add-on order for additional Siemens coaches.
 
IMHO, a restored NCH should be separate from the Chicago-St. Paul corridor train mentioned above. A key purpose of the second Chi-St.P train is to have a schedule offset by several hours from the Empire Builder's schedule.

However, absent the long-distance routes serving Chicago being twice-daily, LD service at Chicago is set up to maximize same-day transfer options: Eastern LD trains arrive in the morning, Western trains arrive & depart in the afternoon, and Eastern trains depart in the evening. A restored NCH that stuck to that scheme, arriving & departing Chicago in the afternoon, would be too close to the EB's schedule to be a true second train Chi-St.P., while an NCH that occupied one of the planned schedules of the second Chi-St.P train wouldn't have safe same-day connections to or from Eastern LD trains.

Also, if the state of Minnesota contributes financially to a second train, I'm sure they'd want the departure for Chicago to be on time, which a corridor train commencing there usually would be while a restored NCH would be subject to the usual LD delays.
 
John Bredin said:
Does the existing Siemens order has an option to buy additional equipment, or would it have to be a separate order? And if it does have an option, when does it have to be exercised?
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I wondered the same thing but couldn't remember and, frankly, was too lazy to try to search for that information.

But here's the MnDOT page with information including the 2015 study that looked at possible schedules.
 
John Bredin said:
Does the existing Siemens order has an option to buy additional equipment, or would it have to be a separate order? And if it does have an option, when does it have to be exercised?
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As I recall there is an option for additional Siemens cars. However the main problem is that until the option is exercised a manufacturing slot is not guaranteed. Right now Siemens is committed for slots on this order, Brightline, and VIA. As for the SC-44s and various light rail orders have no idea if they are on a separate assembly line or are part of the overall set up at Sacramento ?,
 
Whatever options there are, if they are still available, goes through Sumitomo since they hired Siemens to clean up after Nippon-Sharyo. Even if it is possible to exercise those options, it is probably easier at this point to go straight to Siemens. They certainly have plenty of orders, but it wasn't to long ago that Siemens expanded their plant at Sacramento. I wouldn't think the lead time would be excessive.
 
Isn't the new Siemens rolling stock Wisconsin ordered for the Hiawatha Service an add-on to the Midwest order? I presume some of the equipment in the Midwest order will be going to the Hiawatha, and Wisconsin's order was them fulfilling their end of the deal for new equipment on that route.
 
Anthony V said:
Isn't the new Siemens rolling stock Wisconsin ordered for the Hiawatha Service an add-on to the Midwest order? I presume some of the equipment in the Midwest order will be going to the Hiawatha, and Wisconsin's order was them fulfilling their end of the deal for new equipment on that route.
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I had completely forgotten that Wisconsin was awarded a federal grant (last year?) for some amount of new equipment for the Hiawatha. I think most have assumed it will be Siemens equipment but I do not recall ever hearing anything more after the federal grant was announced.
 
Latest news on the creation of the Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority: Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority to include 11 founding counties; adoption pending

The interested counties include those hosting the former Thompson Falls, Missoula, Butte, Bozeman, Livingston, Terry, and Glendive stops, as well as one county that might receive service on a route through Helena, one rural county the train would pass through but not stop in, and two counties adjacent to but not on the route.

Conspicuously absent from the list of interested counties are those containing Helena and Billings.
 
We will have a good idea on expansion/contraction and Amtrak in general by this time next year. Until then the best we can work for is the status quo.
 
I wonder why Billings didn't get in there. Hard to believe that both the city manager and a substantial portion of the population wouldn't be supporting this.

Siegmund said:
Latest news on the creation of the Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority: Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority to include 11 founding counties; adoption pending

The interested counties include those hosting the former Thompson Falls, Missoula, Butte, Bozeman, Livingston, Terry, and Glendive stops, as well as one county that might receive service on a route through Helena, one rural county the train would pass through but not stop in, and two counties adjacent to but not on the route.

Conspicuously absent from the list of interested counties are those containing Helena and Billings.
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