Quantcast

Restructuring Canadian Rail Service with existing equipment pools

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

jiml

Conductor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
1,909
Location
Somewhere in Southern Ontario
Just because you don't grasp the difference between operational funding (i.e. the deficit between train revenues and operating costs, which is automatically paid by the taxpayer) and capital funding (i.e. funding which needs to be approved by the government before it can be used to pay for infrastructure/fleet acquisitions/upgrades), doesn't mean that that there is a conspiracy against restoring services which the federal government has deemed as being part of the mandate of its Crown Corporation. If you insist on blaming someone for the seven years (and counting!) without passenger rail service to the Gaspé peninsula, why not start with the provincial government which could (until very recently) not be bothered to allocate any significant investments into the derelict rail infrastructure it owns...?
I'm not really sure why a one-line comment justifies a personal attack, since there was nothing inaccurate in comparing the suspended Gaspe service to the suspended Amtrak service in north Florida. Let's see:
Deteriorating track conditions contribute to timekeeping and scheduling issues. Check.
Shortline involvement compounds problem. Check.
Passing responsibility for upgrades between various levels of government. Check.
Takes an advocacy group to draw attention. Check.

The real issue is that it has taken an objective observer - in this case an American with no "horse in the race" - to point out what VIA apologists have never grasped: it is not a national network. It certainly once was, but its political masters in the past reduced it to a point where it served only vote-rich Quebec and Southern Ontario with only one train east of Quebec and 2 1/2 (the Skeena is the half) west of Ontario. That leaves large segments of the country, including many major cities, not served. If a way can be found to better utilize existing resources to better serve the whole country, I would think VIA supporters would back the proposal and make constructive additions, rather than say why it can't be done.
 

Seaboard92

Conductor
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
3,768
Location
South Carolina
The real issue is that it has taken an objective observer - in this case an American with no "horse in the race" - to point out what VIA apologists have never grasped: it is not a national network. It certainly once was, but its political masters in the past reduced it to a point where it served only vote-rich Quebec and Southern Ontario with only one train east of Quebec and 2 1/2 (the Skeena is the half) west of Ontario. That leaves large segments of the country, including many major cities, not served. If a way can be found to better utilize existing resources to better serve the whole country, I would think VIA supporters would back the proposal and make constructive additions, rather than say why it can't be done.
Thank you for that Jim. And every point you made is pretty much what my attempts were. But Now I'm going to address the concerns. I might argue I have a horse in a small town NE of Saskatoon at the moment.

As far as the Hudson Bay question how does VIA currently handle it? As I see how the operation runs right now from the outside that there are two consists that run on the Hudson Bay and that is very much how VIA handles the train. Every time I have passed the WMC when in Winnipeg there hasn't been any equipment visible. And the fact that a late arriving train has turned as a late departing train in the past I find it hard to believe they aren't doing this operation. In theory you can get quite a few things done in a 20 hour turn around time.

I'm looking at the Edmonton-Winnipeg (800.9 Miles) and Calgary-Winnipeg (831.6 Miles) now lets look at some Amtrak example routes. The Palmetto (830 Miles), and the Carolinian (704 Miles). Now you can make the argument that both of those trains take advantage of the NEC's 225 miles above 100 miles an hour. But I would argue that the average speed isn't much better than the diesel sections especially on the Palmetto which makes eight intermediate stops in that market. On average of once every thirty miles.

Now let's look at VIA's Western Route when I look at the timetable I see a large dwell time at Saskatoon which could easily be cut down, and some other spots where a large amount of fluff has been added to the timetables.

Now if you could get CN to agree to reasonable timekeeping and restricting their train lengths so that everything fits in the sidings. Or better yet fully double tracking their route which it sorely needs you just need to average 50 miles an hour to make the run in 16 hours. And if I remember correctly speed in Canada is much higher than the arbitrary 79 mph we have in the USA. So if you could get a clean run at it I wouldn't be surprised if you could make it in 16 hours.

Now lets turn to CP. You would have to average 51 miles an hour. Now their railroad is much more fluid than CN's. So it could potentially be done relatively easily. Remember part of the problem with CN is that the Chicago-Pacific Ports intermodal train run concurrent Jasper to Winnipeg. Whereas the ones on CP run to Moose Jaw. So you are fighting less traffic.

Now lets turn and look at the third page of my report and look at VIA's current utilization rates specifically on the higher end.
-Manor Sleepers: 90 Percent
-Skyline Domes: 93 Percent

But once we convert the Ocean into a HEP train which is going to happen one of these days. Even if a few hybrids run in the intermittent time.
-Diners: 83 Percent (and in tourist peak season the Hudson Bay throws it to 100)
-Skylines will likely move to 100 percent. But you'll be short a car somewhere.

You should also note on page nine of my report I listed the equipment that VIA would need to acquire to be successful in this. Which for a reminder was.
-3 Diners (1 Revenue service, 2 Protect)
-10 Baggage Cars (3 for Service, 7 for Protect)
-2 Skylines (For Protect Service)
-5 Crew Dorms (4 for Service, 1 for Protect): This then brings down the Chateau utilization rate, or provides a surge fleet for additional sleepers.

The LRC cars have recently been rebuilt I didn't initially want to use them either. But my good friend Jim has told me several have been rebuilt and they could provide good interim service while we look for more rolling stock, or order more.

Note I only did the peak season consists on trains because I full well expect consists to shrink in the off peak times allowing a long maintenance period in the winter.

I actually thought out every part of this proposal backwards and forwards from an operations stand point. I'm not an academic I've been on the ground in rail operations I have a firm grasp of the situation on the ground.

That being said I also understand the academic arguments to argue them with those who are academics.
 

Willbridge

OBS Chief
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
573
Location
Denver
If a Winnipeg-Grand Forks connection to the EB has never been establish in the 50 years since Amtrak Day.......and not even a bus connection has lasted.......I see little chance for Calgary-Shelby!
Edmonton <> Calgary <> Shelby was an Albertan political statement that I heard from time to time as VIA slashed one Prairie province service after another.
 

Willbridge

OBS Chief
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
573
Location
Denver
''''
I'm looking at the Edmonton-Winnipeg (800.9 Miles) and Calgary-Winnipeg (831.6 Miles) now lets look at some Amtrak example routes. The Palmetto (830 Miles), and the Carolinian (704 Miles). Now you can make the argument that both of those trains take advantage of the NEC's 225 miles above 100 miles an hour. But I would argue that the average speed isn't much better than the diesel sections especially on the Palmetto which makes eight intermediate stops in that market. On average of once every thirty miles.

Now let's look at VIA's Western Route when I look at the timetable I see a large dwell time at Saskatoon which could easily be cut down, and some other spots where a large amount of fluff has been added to the timetables.

Now if you could get CN to agree to reasonable timekeeping and restricting their train lengths so that everything fits in the sidings. Or better yet fully double tracking their route which it sorely needs you just need to average 50 miles an hour to make the run in 16 hours. And if I remember correctly speed in Canada is much higher than the arbitrary 79 mph we have in the USA. So if you could get a clean run at it I wouldn't be surprised if you could make it in 16 hours.

Now lets turn to CP. You would have to average 51 miles an hour. Now their railroad is much more fluid than CN's. So it could potentially be done relatively easily. Remember part of the problem with CN is that the Chicago-Pacific Ports intermodal train run concurrent Jasper to Winnipeg. Whereas the ones on CP run to Moose Jaw. So you are fighting less traffic. ....
Regarding the dwell in the outskirts of Saskatoon: the 29 October 1971 CN timetable shows the dwell was 25 minutes in both directions.

CN Train 1 from Winnipeg to Edmonton took 17:16 and Train 2 returned in 16:55. I found my 26 October 1975 CP Rail schedule and it shows their Train 1 from Winnipeg to Calgary in 16:40 and Train 2 made the return in 16:10. It appears that on this long a stretch that we can actually see the effect of the directional priority rule of dispatching. And keep in mind that the CN trains still had some heavyweight cars in the consists. In the summer and around holidays they were handling trains of two dozen cars, including time to service them at Saskatoon or Moose Jaw.

Both railways were running what we referred to as the "three-night schedule" between Montreal/Toronto and Vancouver. During the transition to VIA they dropped back to the "four-night schedule" formerly operated by the CN Continental and the CP Dominion with steam power and heavy head-end traffic. This was done to improve on-time performance. I don't have statistics but for over a year my trolley coach on 101 Street was supposed to go under the westbound Super during my morning commute and there were many days that it was not there.

There are some advantages to a four-night schedule. However, schedule adherence does not seem to be one of them. As the Boxing Day 1977 photo in Vancouver shows, it was a great schedule for cinematic steamy farewells. Winter daylight was from Kamloops (already a bit late) to Edson.

Regarding the LRC Daylights idea there were a lot of pros and cons. Arriving in Winnipeg at midnight is not the same experience as the Shasta Daylight in San Francisco or the City of New Orleans in New Orleans. Eastbound with the time change bites. But they would have nicely complemented a three-night transcon on the CP and a Panorama / Skeena on the CN west of Winnipeg. It was an experiment worth researching and then trying.

1977 106.jpg
 

Urban Sky

Train Attendant
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
78
Location
MTR
I'm not really sure why a one-line comment justifies a personal attack
You wrote:
Proving that Amtrak doesn't have a monopoly on that strategy. :p
... and linked to a post in the thread "Question about truncation of Sunset Limited":
Locally there is considerable support for development of the corridor NOL - JAX - ORL, though no state government level support from Florida yet. There is very little support however for an extension of the Sunset Limited. The lead outfit navigating all this is the Southern Rail Commission.
Following the definition of the word "strategy" as "a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim", you are blaming the three main factors preventing the resumption of service on the most-Eastern section of the Sunset Limited (lack of funding, lack of political support and lack of cooperation by the host railways) on Amtrak, even though Amtrak neither approves its own funding, commands politicians nor exercises any legislative or ownership control on private railroads. I'm sorry if you perceived my comment as an attack, but I really struggle to see much signs that you grasp what is within the control of public intercity passenger rail operators in North America and what isn't...

, since there was nothing inaccurate in comparing the suspended Gaspe service to the suspended Amtrak service in north Florida. Let's see:
Deteriorating track conditions contribute to timekeeping and scheduling issues. Check.
Shortline involvement compounds problem. Check.
Passing responsibility for upgrades between various levels of government. Check.
Takes an advocacy group to draw attention. Check.
Agreed, there is little difference between the suspension of passenger rail service between New Orleans and Jacksonville and that onto the Gaspé peninsula, which means that your accusations in the latter case are just as unjustified and baseless as when blaming the continued partial suspension of the Sunset Limited on Amtrak.

The real issue is that it has taken an objective observer - in this case an American with no "horse in the race" - to point out what VIA apologists have never grasped: it is not a national network. It certainly once was, but its political masters in the past reduced it to a point where it served only vote-rich Quebec and Southern Ontario with only one train east of Quebec and 2 1/2 (the Skeena is the half) west of Ontario. That leaves large segments of the country, including many major cities, not served. If a way can be found to better utilize existing resources to better serve the whole country, I would think VIA supporters would back the proposal and make constructive additions, rather than say why it can't be done.
I don't know who in his right mind would deny the obvious fact that VIA ceased to operate a national network on January 15, 1990, when the federal government of that time cut all intercity routes outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor and all transcontinental services beyond thrice-weekly service on the Ocean, Atlantic and the what used to be the Super-Continental and that the remaining network deprives 13* out of the 41 Census Metropolitan Areas (i.e. metropolitan areas with a population of more than 100,000 people in the 2016 Census) of passenger rail service, but it certainly wasn't me. Apart from five "regional" services providing an essential transport link into remote communities (JONQ, SENN, WHTR, CHUR and PRUP), VIA's rail network outside of the Quebec-Windsor Corridor only consists of two tourist trains, which provide very limited mobility options to non-tourists...

*for those interested, we are talking about Calgary (5th-largest CMA), Victoria (#15), Regina (#18), Sherbrooke (#19), St. John's (#20), Kelowna (#22), Saint John (#31), Peterborough (#32), Thunder Bay (#33), Lethbridge (#34), Nanaimo (#35), Fredericton (#39) and Red Deer (#41) - with a combined population of 3,403,854 or 9.7% of Canada's total population in the 2016 Census
 
Last edited:

Seaboard92

Conductor
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
3,768
Location
South Carolina
If you want to get a good grasp at why the Canadian runs late all the time may I suggest the game Train Dispatcher 3.5 and downloading the territories made by Crossbunk Productions. So far they have done the Canadian route from Toronto to Capreol and Capreol to Armstrong. Other Canadian routes they have done are Toronto Union Station, and the entire VIA corridor from Montreal to the west.

I just tried the Capreol to Armstrong section and over that entire territory No. 2 the Canadian ran 25 minutes late at it's latest. And that was mainly due to having to meet several freight trains that were too long to fit in any siding. There are frequent sidings on the route but most of them are too short to do any good. On the freight side I delayed a few trains just because I had to hold them for trains 50 miles away because there weren't long enough sidings between the two massive trains. It would really behoove CN's management to try this game so they can understand the jigsaw puzzle they've built for their dispatchers to play with day in and day out.

It isn't just the Canadian that gets messed up with these long freights it is the freights as well.
 

WWW

Train Attendant
AU Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 18, 2018
Messages
63
Location
MSP
If you want to get a good grasp at why the Canadian runs late all the time may I suggest the game Train Dispatcher 3.5 and downloading the territories made by Crossbunk Productions. So far they have done the Canadian route from Toronto to Capreol and Capreol to Armstrong. Other Canadian routes they have done are Toronto Union Station, and the entire VIA corridor from Montreal to the west.

I just tried the Capreol to Armstrong section and over that entire territory No. 2 the Canadian ran 25 minutes late at it's latest. And that was mainly due to having to meet several freight trains that were too long to fit in any siding. There are frequent sidings on the route but most of them are too short to do any good. On the freight side I delayed a few trains just because I had to hold them for trains 50 miles away because there weren't long enough sidings between the two massive trains. It would really behoove CN's management to try this game so they can understand the jigsaw puzzle they've built for their dispatchers to play with day in and day out.

It isn't just the Canadian that gets messed up with these long freights it is the freights as well.
It would be easy enough to park the Canadian train on any siding waiting for the passing freight - but what about two freights 1 eastbound and
1 westbound meeting on the same track - with neither having negotiable room to use the siding - now you have some real serious logistics in solving
the puzzle of course time is a wasting in any event.

Extend the sidings - or moreover double track the line and then switching in places to allow the fast Canadian to pass the slow moving freight !

But then you have the "Dilberts" in the front office with the "non compos mentis (brain)" syndrome worrying about money over scheduling matter.


NOTE:
Post #26 - - -
There is a train set parked at Gaspe (museum piece probably never to run again) photo images from cruise trip September '16

Latest Google map shows it is still parked at the (tender) port of Gaspe - weathered tracks lead out of the Gaspe Peninsula to a junction with
existing rail service to Sydney. How serviceable the tracks are is questionable - ahem very questionable.

Gaspe is for the Wiki folks is the Birth Place of Canada

DSC05802.JPGDSC05801.JPG
 

Attachments

Willbridge

OBS Chief
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
573
Location
Denver
If you want to get a good grasp at why the Canadian runs late all the time may I suggest the game Train Dispatcher 3.5 and downloading the territories made by Crossbunk Productions. So far they have done the Canadian route from Toronto to Capreol and Capreol to Armstrong. Other Canadian routes they have done are Toronto Union Station, and the entire VIA corridor from Montreal to the west.

I just tried the Capreol to Armstrong section and over that entire territory No. 2 the Canadian ran 25 minutes late at it's latest. And that was mainly due to having to meet several freight trains that were too long to fit in any siding. There are frequent sidings on the route but most of them are too short to do any good. On the freight side I delayed a few trains just because I had to hold them for trains 50 miles away because there weren't long enough sidings between the two massive trains. It would really behoove CN's management to try this game so they can understand the jigsaw puzzle they've built for their dispatchers to play with day in and day out.

It isn't just the Canadian that gets messed up with these long freights it is the freights as well.
Now that I'm retired I try not to think of projects like working out meets! Four-car LRT trains were tricky enough. ;) Seriously, I understand your point. Is BNSF the only Class I that double-tracks long stretches to improve fluidity?
 

jiml

Conductor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
1,909
Location
Somewhere in Southern Ontario
There is a train set parked at Gaspe (museum piece probably never to run again) photo images from cruise trip September '16

Latest Google map shows it is still parked at the (tender) port of Gaspe - weathered tracks lead out of the Gaspe Peninsula to a junction with
existing rail service to Sydney. How serviceable the tracks are is questionable - ahem very questionable.

Gaspe is for the Wiki folks is the Birth Place of Canada

View attachment 19435View attachment 19434
Historical note: Those are the very first GO Transit coaches they bought new from Hawker-Siddeley, later transferred to Montreal Regional Transit when GO went bi-level. Obviously they've found a new home.Oakville_GO_Train_1968.jpg
At least one is archived at the Toronto downtown roundhouse museum and brewery.
 

jiml

Conductor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
1,909
Location
Somewhere in Southern Ontario
Now that I'm retired I try not to think of projects like working out meets! Four-car LRT trains were tricky enough. ;) Seriously, I understand your point. Is BNSF the only Class I that double-tracks long stretches to improve fluidity?
It's not hard to see the late Hunter Harrison legacy on CSX - especially in the south, which suffers the same problem as his previous projects (CN and CP): enormous trains and too-short sidings.
 

NS VIA Fan

Conductor
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
1,598
Location
Nova Scotia
There is a train set parked at Gaspe (museum piece probably never to run again) photo images from cruise trip September '16

Latest Google map shows it is still parked at the (tender) port of Gaspe - weathered tracks lead out of the Gaspe Peninsula to a junction with existing rail service to Sydney. How serviceable the tracks are is questionable - ahem very questionable.
Thanks for those photos of the L'Amiral Tour Train at Gaspe. It's been about 10 years since I was there. When the Chaleur was running it was an easy train to railfan along a very scenic route.

A little geographical info here...The Gaspe line goes to Matapedia, Quebec (200 miles) where it meets VIA's 'Ocean' route between Montreal and Halifax.

The Gaspe line is currently undergoing extensive rebuilding (link to photos in post #20 above) and the plan is to resume VIA service to Gaspe and also operate the L'Amiral Tour Train again for cruise ship passengers.....but it's probably a couple of years away yet!

The Sydney line is on Cape Breton Island and the track east of Port Hawkesbury (owned by CBNS/Genesee & Wyoming) is now all but abandoned and I see little chance of that reopening.
 

Seaboard92

Conductor
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
3,768
Location
South Carolina
Now that I'm retired I try not to think of projects like working out meets! Four-car LRT trains were tricky enough. ;) Seriously, I understand your point. Is BNSF the only Class I that double-tracks long stretches to improve fluidity?
I think it is a really good teaching tool with this game. It shows that with every action management takes in train length increasing how it cascades down hill. I was playing it last night and I held up a 12,000 ft stack train for such a long time waiting on two other 12,000 foot trains that it had to be recrewed prior to the crew change point. It isn't that hard to see how these train lengths are hurting the overall health and utility of the rail line. They worry about locomotive and crew utilization but what they fail to see is how they don't utilize the physical plant well. If trains are getting stuck for extended periods of time they aren't running smoothly.

That is what I thought too Jim that those are EX Go Transit cars. I have never heard of that tourist train before. Something to research.
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,137
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
Following the definition of the word "strategy" as "a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim", you are blaming the three main factors preventing the resumption of service on the most-Eastern section of the Sunset Limited (lack of funding, lack of political support and lack of cooperation by the host railways) on Amtrak, even though Amtrak neither approves its own funding, commands politicians nor exercises any legislative or ownership control on private railroads. I'm sorry if you perceived my comment as an attack, but I really struggle to see much signs that you grasp what is within the control of public intercity passenger rail operators in North America and what isn't...
You found me saying all that about Amtrak, strategy etc. etc in the statement:
jis said:
Locally there is considerable support for development of the corridor NOL - JAX - ORL, though no state government level support from Florida yet. There is very little support however for an extension of the Sunset Limited. The lead outfit navigating all this is the Southern Rail Commission.
That is a pretty remarkable piece of ascribing motives etc. etc. based on nothing.

I am stating a fact as I know it having worked in the field for years.. It has nothing to do with what I feel is right or wrong. I have not even mentioned Amtrak anywhere, let alone blaming it. How do you see the statement of a fact as an attack beats me.

Are you sure you are not responding to something else? Could you please clarify what your intentions are? 🤷‍♂️

Thanks.
 

Urban Sky

Train Attendant
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
78
Location
MTR
*Edit: I obviously confused “jis” with “jiml”, as noted two posts down*

You found me saying all that about Amtrak, strategy etc. etc in the statement:

That is a pretty remarkable piece of ascribing motives etc. etc. based on nothing.

I am stating a fact as I know it having worked in the field for years.. It has nothing to do with what I feel is right or wrong. I have not even mentioned Amtrak anywhere, let alone blaming it. How do you see the statement of a fact as an attack beats me.

Are you sure you are not responding to something else? Could you please clarify what your intentions are? 🤷‍♂️

Thanks.
If I keep misunderstanding you, why don’t you take the opportunity to explain with your own words what exactly you meant with the following comment?

Thanks.
Proving that Amtrak doesn't have a monopoly on that strategy. :p

 
Last edited:

NS VIA Fan

Conductor
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
1,598
Location
Nova Scotia
Further to the post on Gaspe. This is the VIA Station that burnt in 2010.....




Afterwards.....VIA built this attractive new station that has yet to see the arrival of a VIA train! It was completed after the 'Chaleur' was suspended and used for the 'L'Amiral' (The Admiral) Tour Train for a couple of years. It's now a Tourist Info Centre.






Hopefully with the rebuilding of the track infrastructure we'll see the 'Chaleur' along side the 'L'Amiral' at this nice little two track terminal!


Latest Google map shows it is still parked at the (tender) port of Gaspe..........

View attachment 19435
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,137
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
If I keep misunderstanding you, why don’t you take the opportunity to explain with your own words what exactly you meant with the following comment?

Thanks.
You need to first understand that "jis" is not"jiml". Put on your glasses, and if you don't have them get some and then read carefully before reacting. 🤪
 

Urban Sky

Train Attendant
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
78
Location
MTR
You need to first understand that "jis" is not"jiml". Put on your glasses, and if you don't have them get some and then read carefully before reacting. 🤪
Fair enough, and my apologies for not noticing that it wasn’t “jiml” responding this time! I was still talking to “jiml” in Post 30 even after quoting you (I only quoted you to make clear for all readers that he was referring to the Sunset Limited’s partial truncation and ironically a post which clearly acknowledged all the reasons for its continued service suspension east of New Orleans), but I do acknowledge that it could be interpreted differently. In any case, none of my criticism was directed at you, but it unfortunately doesn’t seem like I’m still able to clarify this better in Post 30...

Have a great day!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jis

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
26,137
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
Fair enough, and my apologies for not noticing that it wasn’t “jiml” responding this time! I was still talking to “jiml” in Post 30 even after quoting you (I only quoted you to make clear for all readers that he was referring to the Sunset Limited’s partial truncation), but I do acknowledge that it could be interpreted differently. In any case, none of my criticism was directed at you, but it unfortunately doesn’t seem like I’m still able to clarify this better in Post 30...

Have a great day!
OK.

But why is this discussion about Sunset limited happening in the "Restructuring Canadian Rail Service" thread? Most of the quotations appear to be from a different thread pulled into this one.
 

Urban Sky

Train Attendant
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
78
Location
MTR
OK.

But why is this discussion about Sunset limited happening in the "Restructuring Canadian Rail Service" thread? Most of the quotations appear to be from a different thread pulled into this one.
You’d need to ask “jiml” why the temporary suspension of the Gaspé service reminded him of how Amtrak supposedly treated the truncation of the Sunset Limited, as it was him who inserted a link to your post from an entirely different thread. Other then that, I didn’t notice any quotes which originate from other threads on this forum...

PS: I was first a bit surprised by your strong words, but I agree that had I really intended to criticize you for supposedly saying the exact opposite of what I just quoted you with directly above, then this would have indeed raised some serious doubts about my visual capabilities...
 
  • Like
Reactions: jis

Mailliw

Train Attendant
Joined
Jun 14, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Northeast PA
Regarding sleeping cars; my understanding is that VIA has an option for additional trainsets from Siemens on top of what they've already ordered for the Corridor. Could that option be used for additional sleeping cars? I don't see why Siemens would have difficulty making sleeping car versions of the Ventures.
 

Urban Sky

Train Attendant
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
78
Location
MTR
Regarding sleeping cars; my understanding is that VIA has an option for additional trainsets from Siemens on top of what they've already ordered for the Corridor. Could that option be used for additional sleeping cars? I don't see why Siemens would have difficulty making sleeping car versions of the Ventures.
I’m afraid it can’t: Sleeping cars have cabins which need to align with the windows and in order to have en-suite bathrooms, you’ll need piping throughout the car (as opposed to just the car ends). Just look at ÖBB and how different the cars for its RailJet and its NightJet are.

Also, the second batch of the Corridor Fleet Renewal is required for if and when HFR is approved, as HFR is a service expansion, whereas the first batch is just a one-for-one replacement of the existing (and mostly obsolete) Corridor fleet...

That said, it’s of course not impossible to procure new Sleeping Cars (provided that the federal government approves the necessary funding), but you’d realistically need again to chose and adapt a design which is already in production for the North American market, just like the Ventures and Chargers were...
 
Last edited:

Mailliw

Train Attendant
Joined
Jun 14, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Northeast PA
OK, the second point about trainsets being reserved for HFR is valid, but I fail to see how making a sleeping version of a Venture coach is beyond Siemens ability. Window placement seems like it'd be trivial to modify in an order and Siemens has plenty of experience building sleeping cars in Europe. Presumably if VIA is ordering new sleepers it'd opt for at least some cheaper accommodation
sans ensuite. Maybe something like Superliner or VI roomettes.
 
Last edited:

Urban Sky

Train Attendant
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
78
Location
MTR
OK, the second point about trainsets being reserved for HFR is valid, but I fail to see how making a sleeping version of a Venture coach is beyond Siemens ability. Window placement seems like it'd be trivial to modify in an order and Siemens has plenty of experience building sleeping cars in Europe. Presumably if VIA is ordering new sleepers it'd opt for at least some cheaper accommodation
sans ensuite. Maybe something like Superliner or VI roomettes.
All I’m saying is that the interior (and the window placing) would be a completely different design and thus have a completely different procurement and price. That said, increasing the seat pitch and opting for more comfortable and more reclining seats for overnight seating accommodations would likely require less modifications than if the second batch had to be made interoperable to share tracks with the new Light Metro scheme (REM) occupying the Mont-Royal tunnel for operation between Montreal Gare Centrale and Quebec City (which would require a smaller train width, lower axle weights and compatibility with the catenary electricity and CBTC systems chosen by the REM).

But anyways, any Sleeper trains will have to be a separate order because they don’t fall under the ongoing “Corridor Fleet Renewal Programme” and the funding which has been released by the federal government...
 

sttom

OBS Chief
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
583
Even on OBB's services, the Night Jet and Rail Jet cars aren't from the same series anyways. The newer sleepers are a variant of the older Siemens Viaggio Classic. Some of them are left overs from other operators and older orders. So Siemens does have designs it can adapt, but someone would need to ask and no one is asking the question at the moment.

I also highly doubt that Via would go with the same accomodations that Amtrak has. Considering how much they try to attract the tourist market on their flagship trains, I'd imagine they'd want rooms as close to the old Budd cars as can be built. Which will be needed someday....whenever that day might come.
 

Mailliw

Train Attendant
Joined
Jun 14, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Northeast PA
The Budd sleepers have both sections and single person roomettes; an Amtrak style roomette is essentially a merger of the 2. I do agree that the mix of accommodations would tilt more in the direction of bedrooms than Amtrak's.
 
Top