RFP issued for Amfleet I replacement

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Seaboard92

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I have my own reasons for not wanting semi-permanent trainsets as well. The more of those we have the less places we can run. Which means less money for the industry and ultimately me. But that’s me being selfish.
 

Acela150

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I have my own reasons for not wanting semi-permanent trainsets as well. The more of those we have the less places we can run. Which means less money for the industry and ultimately me. But that’s me being selfish.
And your reasons IINM relate to PV, nothing related to what I mentioned which is way more justified.
 

Seaboard92

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Like I said I’m very selfish. Even though I’m not a large fan for your reasons as well
 

Thirdrail7

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And yet the entire world is moving towards those, so I guess you will just have to suck it up and bear it. :D

BTW, in terms of overall rail passenger ridership in the US, I suspect a vast majority ride on either push pulls or EMUs/DMUs in the US. single direction loco pulled is a minority operation already by a long shot. I am not aware of any commuter service in the North East or Chicagoland that is not push-pull with a cab car at one end and a loco at the other end, unless of course it is EMU.

My crystal ball says that in the next gen all operations of Amtrak Regional service on the NEC will transition over to push-pull or pull-pull with cabs at both ends, loco or cab car, just like is happening in California. Anything else simply does not make much sense.
Again, this depends on the type of service you wish to provide. There is a big difference between turn around commuter service and point to point, multi state service. Amtrak tends to fall into the latter. I'm not aware of any commuter service that operates 600+ miles...one way. I'm not aware of Chicagoland commuter service operating through 9 states...and potentially carrying mail, parcels and private cars.

Additionally, adding another locomotive to your train increases costs and increases inspections.
 

jis

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Again, this depends on the type of service you wish to provide. There is a big difference between turn around commuter service and point to point, multi state service. Amtrak tends to fall into the latter. I'm not aware of any commuter service that operates 600+ miles...one way. I'm not aware of Chicagoland commuter service operating through 9 states...and potentially carrying mail, parcels and private cars.

Additionally, adding another locomotive to your train increases costs and increases inspections.
I guess my focus on using cabs at both ends of a train specifically in the context of NEC-like operations was not clear. I was talking mostly about NEC (or other) Regional type services, which is basically a higher class commuter service in most cases, even though over longer distances, and Acelas already use cabs at both ends, as does everything on Amtrak California.

I agree with you to quite an extent about infrequent (once a day or less) service over longer distances. Specifically services that have 24 hour (or even 8 hour) layovers at each end, do not require quick turnaround, obviously.
 
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Andrew

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Rumor has it that the Hitachi Class 800 Dual Power Integrated Trainset is a strong contender for the Northeast Regional Trains that operate south of Washington, D.C, as well as the Pennsylvania which travels between Pittsburgh and NYC.
 

mainemanman

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Rumor has it that the Hitachi Class 800 Dual Power Integrated Trainset is a strong contender for the Northeast Regional Trains that operate south of Washington, D.C, as well as the Pennsylvania which travels between Pittsburgh and NYC.
Where'd you hear that? Seems odd to use a British design.
 

Andrew

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Final bids for the Amfleet Replacement are now due this November 20th.

It would be cool to see coaches for the electric trains--such as the Keystones-- and a Dual Power Integrated Trainset for the trains which require an engine change.
 

PerRock

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Rumor has it that the Hitachi Class 800 Dual Power Integrated Trainset is a strong contender for the Northeast Regional Trains that operate south of Washington, D.C, as well as the Pennsylvania which travels between Pittsburgh and NYC.
Where'd you hear that? Seems odd to use a British design.
Yeah. I don’t think Amtrak will go for British loading gauge.
Well the Class 800/801 is just the UK version of the Hitachi A-Train, so Amtrak would probably get an Americanized version of the A-Train. Just like how the new Acela is an Americanized version of Alstom's Avelia train.

peter
 

jis

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And also hope that Hitachi does not spend ten years trying to familiarize itself with American railroading practices
 

Andrew

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For Amtrak trains that currently use Amfleet coaches, would it make more sense to use a dual powered locomotive, or a Dual-Powered Integrated Trainset, in the future?
 

lordsigma

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How about a two pronged approach. You could do an EMU style for the BOS-WAS trains and Keystones, and then a traditional style fleet for corridor trains that currently need engine changes and for long distance trains. This would free up a lot of Sprinter electric locomotives. On the remaining traditional style equipment sets you could assign a dedicated sprinter and charger paired together that would just stay on the train all the time. I guess the disadvantage is you’d have to drag the inactive engine but it would eliminate the changes and would make use of assets they currently have. I’m sure given the manufacturing similarities between the Sprinter and Charger locomotives you could probably do it.
 

PVD

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Since a BOS-WAS run involves 3 separate power systems, any EMU would be a bit pricey/complex. Dual modes tend to be less reliable than units that are one or the other. Neither is a show stopper, but must be considered.
 

frequentflyer

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For Amtrak trains that currently use Amfleet coaches, would it make more sense to use a dual powered locomotive, or a Dual-Powered Integrated Trainset, in the future?
Makes too much sense, Amtrak will not do it.......Its up an running the UK, most of the bugs have been worked out or at least identified.

A Hitachi Regional will have Regional passengers not missing the Acela IIs amenities except for the extra "speed". Hmmm, I see a significant price increase for Regional fares in the future if Amtrak goes the Hitachi route.
 

Gemuser

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Since a BOS-WAS run involves 3 separate power systems, any EMU would be a bit pricey/complex. Dual modes tend to be less reliable than units that are one or the other. Neither is a show stopper, but must be considered.
While this used to be true, these days the standard EMUs from European manfactures [don't know about Asian ones] tend to be quadri mode or very near, straight out of the factory. Dual power ones [electric/desiel] are another matter, although they do exist.
 
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PVD

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I don't think it's changed that much, but others are more willing to deal with it. Dealing with multiple voltages and frequencies is clearly manageable, ACS-64 do it everyday, but it is a "complicating factor"
 

jis

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Since everything becomes DC on the main link, the frequency thing only affects the transformer as does the HV input voltage The backend drive control remains the same no matter how many different input profiles you throw at it. Indeed DC input is the biggest pain to deal with unless it is at the link voltage.
 

TC_NYC

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I just don't see too many advantages of a dual mode locomotive. Amtrak will still schedule the trains to stop in Washington for 20-30 minutes and the Acela will still be billed as the "premium" service. EMUs would make a lot of sense, since the trains have frequent stops.
 

Seaboard92

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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now. ÖBB/ĆD Railjets would make a lot of sense. Great trainsets that are semi permanently coupled meaning you could add cars at any time, and take them out. And you can just change the engine in DC between whatever Amtrak starts using on the Virginia regionals in the next few years, and the sprinters. To be honest I find the Railjets a superior train to most high speed trains out there and I want to say they are capable of 150 mph.

But what do I know about trains, it’s not like I was an airline executive.
 
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