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Kevin L.

Service Attendant
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
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105
Location
Pasadena, Maryland
All the roomettes seem to be financially excluding themselves from my first amtrak trip, so I looked ahead as far as possible into the future (October 9th, 2009) and Roomettes from WAS to LAF were still $308!

308 dollars isn't going to break my bank (I'm a step above destitution lol), but for a mere 17 hours how is it worth it?

During this coming January, a sleeper from CHI to LAF (3 hour ride) is $159. :huh:

Are these things supposed to be this expensive, or are they just booked that far in advance already?

Also, is it just me or are the USA Rail Passes not designed for going to places for a duration of time? From their limitations, and the quote with which they are sold ("See the USA from the comfort of your seat") tell me that they are only meant to be ridden on around the nation, as amtrak's stupid once-a-day at best train schedules cause undue wasted time at unappealing stops waiting for the next train to come in.

Don't get me wrong--I could spend 30 days rolling around America on a train with only a minimum of restlessness...if I had a cabin, but that probably wouldn't happen. It's either cabins on the train with no stops, or hotels at a reduced number of stops :(

EDIT: In just the time from when I made my first post on this forum until now, roomette prices on the Empire Builder have increased by 50%....better presented as $200 dollars!

BTW, are there any ways to get "cheap" sleeper cars just for the experience of having them? Are they priced by "zones" so an intra-zone sleeper wouldn't require amputation to pay for it? Six hundred and forty eight dollars for an EB sleeper is just not going to happen--one can stay at a hotel in Vancouver for a week for less than that. (And VAC is the most expensive city in Canada)
 
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kevin, it's hard to get low sleeper prices (even if you are getting the low bucket fare). we usually travel as a family (or a part thereof) so we pay one sleeper fare for 2, 3 or 4 of us which makes it a better deal. join agr and get the mastercard (and pay it off every month). we have taken 3 sleeper trips in the past year with agr points (there are a lot of deals out there to get bundles of points). i have found that 11 months in advance sleepers may not start at low bucket but usually come down to that after a couple months. also we are aaa members. the 10% discount applies to both rail and sleeper fares.
 
All the roomettes seem to be financially excluding themselves from my first amtrak trip, so I looked ahead as far as possible into the future (October 9th, 2009) and Roomettes from WAS to LAF were still $308!
308 dollars isn't going to break my bank (I'm a step above destitution lol), but for a mere 17 hours how is it worth it?
I certainly found BOS<->CHI in a roomette a lot more pleasant than BOS<->Williamsburg in coach, enough so that my next trip to the midwest is going to be in a roomette. But different people seem to have different opinions on this subject.

Are these things supposed to be this expensive, or are they just booked that far in advance already?
Amtrak's approach to pricing seems to basically be to take all the space available on equipment that was purchased years ago, and charge whatever the maximum price is that still keeps that equipment reasonably full. The concept of buying more equipment to meet demand, or even maintaining all the equipment they do have, is one that tends to elude Amtrak (although there was some testimony before Congress you can find on Amtrak's website that seems to indicate that they do understand that the long distance routes would benefit from some new equipment).

BTW, are there any ways to get "cheap" sleeper cars just for the experience of having them? Are they priced by "zones" so an intra-zone sleeper wouldn't require amputation to pay for it? Six hundred and forty eight dollars for an EB sleeper is just not going to happen--one can stay at a hotel in Vancouver for a week for less than that. (And VAC is the most expensive city in Canada)
If you can figure out how to get 15,000 or 20,000 AGR points, you can get a ``free'' one way roomette (that includes both the accomodation charge, and the railfare for as many passengers as want to ride in the roomette and fit whatever Amtrak's limit is, which is 2 or maybe 3 people); 15,000 will get you a trip within a single zone (with the US divided into the eastern, central, and western zones), and 20,000 points will get you a two zone trip. (35,000 for a three zone trip, I believe.)

There basically are two pricing structures: dollars, and AGR points. The AGR pricing structure is much less fine grained, since it doesn't care how full the train already is, and the granularity of the distance traveled is quite coarse compared to dollar denominated tickets. For example, with AGR points, BOS to CHI costs the same as BOS to DEN. On the other hand, with dollars, BOS to CHI is slightly more expensive than BOS to SOB.
 
My party of 4 wanted to go to Glenwood Springs this summer. We have kinda gotten spoiled and since its an overnight trip and we have done coach on this trip as well, we wanted to get two roomettes RT. The cost was nuts!!!! We were looking at about 9 months out instead of 11. So we decided to forego GSC and go to Chicago. By doing this, we might add two family members along since we will be saving quite a bit in not having sleepers. I may be chincy, but I dislike paying much more than low bucket if I'm taking 4 people. The added costs are large. So we are going coach to the Windy City!
 
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Amtrak's approach to pricing seems to basically be to take all the space available on equipment that was purchased years ago, and charge whatever the maximum price is that still keeps that equipment reasonably full.
This is how it should be IMO. Unless you want to further subsidize the railroad, which just means spreading that cost out to more taxpayers who don't use Amtrak.

The people who ride Amtrak should by and large be the ones who pay for it. And in many cases demand still outstrips supply, so I don't see why Amtrak shouldn't charge whatever prices they can get for these rooms. And I say that as someone who travels by sleeping car whenever possible, and coach when I can't afford a sleeping car.

It would be like looking at first class on an airline and saying the prices should be lower because you can't afford the fare. Well, then get a better paying job. It's not really the airline's problem. If they're filling up their first class cabin, then they're charging a fare that's either right or even potentially too low. And it's not like there is no lower-fare option - you can always ride in coach if you can't afford first class. That's true of both planes and trains.

The concept of buying more equipment to meet demand, or even maintaining all the equipment they do have, is one that tends to elude Amtrak (although there was some testimony before Congress you can find on Amtrak's website that seems to indicate that they do understand that the long distance routes would benefit from some new equipment).
They have just requested money for 15 new sleeping cars.

Amtrak doesn't have money to throw around on equipment. They need to rely on congress. They would love to have had 100 Viewliners, but they only got money for 50. Now they are trying to raise that number to 65.

Even still, it's probably not going to lower fares. They still lose money on every sleeping car passenger, they just lose less than they do on coach passengers. So it's better for them to run more sleepers so they lose less money per passenger mile, but only so they can meet demand - not so they can lower fares. That wouldn't help them at all.
 
They still lose money on every sleeping car passenger, they just lose less than they do on coach passengers. So it's better for them to run more sleepers so they lose less money per passenger mile, but only so they can meet demand - not so they can lower fares. That wouldn't help them at all.
That statement needs to be qualified IMHO. Amtrak does loose money on sleeping car passengers as far as the rail fare is concerned. That's the charge that everyone who rides Amtrak, regardless of what class they ride in, pays to get from point A to point B. However other than that loss on the railfare, which is less per sleeping car passenger than per coach passenger, sleeping car patrons do pay enough to cover all other operating costs associated with their passage.
 
also we are aaa members. the 10% discount applies to both rail and sleeper fares.
I used to believe that the discount applied to both rail and sleeper until I found and read the following taken from the Amtrak website:

AAA Members Save 10%

American Automobile Association (AAA) members, their spouses and thier dependents are eligible to receive a 10% discount on the lowest available adult rail fare for Amtrak travel. Visit the AAA web site for information about becoming an AAA member. Discount Limitations

  • The AAA discount is not valid on weekday Acela Express trains.
  • The AAA discount does not apply to Business class, First class or sleeping accommodation. These upgrades are permitted upon payment of the full accommodation charges.
  • The AAA discount is not valid for travel on certain Amtrak Thruway connecting services.
  • The AAA discount is not valid on the Canadian portion of services operated jointly by Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada to Ontario.
  • The AAA discount may not be combinable with other discount offers; refer to the terms and conditions for each offer.
  • Additional restrictions may apply.
 
also we are aaa members. the 10% discount applies to both rail and sleeper fares.
I used to believe that the discount applied to both rail and sleeper until I found and read the following taken from the Amtrak website:

AAA Members Save 10%

American Automobile Association (AAA) members, their spouses and thier dependents are eligible to receive a 10% discount on the lowest available adult rail fare for Amtrak travel. Visit the AAA web site for information about becoming an AAA member. Discount Limitations

  • The AAA discount is not valid on weekday Acela Express trains.
  • The AAA discount does not apply to Business class, First class or sleeping accommodation. These upgrades are permitted upon payment of the full accommodation charges.
  • The AAA discount is not valid for travel on certain Amtrak Thruway connecting services.
  • The AAA discount is not valid on the Canadian portion of services operated jointly by Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada to Ontario.
  • The AAA discount may not be combinable with other discount offers; refer to the terms and conditions for each offer.
  • Additional restrictions may apply.
interesting and somewhat disheartening. our last sleeper reservation, not counting agr redemptions, was made late last year for travel this past month. we recieved a 10% aaa discount on the entire amount. evidently the policy has changed
 
...interesting and somewhat disheartening. our last sleeper reservation, not counting agr redemptions, was made late last year for travel this past month. we recieved a 10% aaa discount on the entire amount. evidently the policy has changed
I think you will find that you did not get the AAA discount on the sleeper accommodation charge. The application of the AAA discount to rail fare only has been in place for as long as I can remember. There have been very rare instances of special AAA discounts being applied to sleeping car charges, but none within the last couple of years.
 
Last Feb. I called Amtrack about 7 or 8 times til I found my 11 day trip in the H-Room in Sept.

Orl-Was-Chi-Seattle-Sac-Chi-Was- Orl = $2,083.00 Lucky, I guess!!!! :) Lookin for another deal like that!!!! B)
 
also we are aaa members. the 10% discount applies to both rail and sleeper fares.
I used to believe that the discount applied to both rail and sleeper until I found and read the following taken from the Amtrak website:

AAA Members Save 10%

American Automobile Association (AAA) members, their spouses and thier dependents are eligible to receive a 10% discount on the lowest available adult rail fare for Amtrak travel. Visit the AAA web site for information about becoming an AAA member. Discount Limitations

  • The AAA discount is not valid on weekday Acela Express trains.
  • The AAA discount does not apply to Business class, First class or sleeping accommodation. These upgrades are permitted upon payment of the full accommodation charges.
  • The AAA discount is not valid for travel on certain Amtrak Thruway connecting services.
  • The AAA discount is not valid on the Canadian portion of services operated jointly by Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada to Ontario.
  • The AAA discount may not be combinable with other discount offers; refer to the terms and conditions for each offer.
  • Additional restrictions may apply.
interesting and somewhat disheartening. our last sleeper reservation, not counting agr redemptions, was made late last year for travel this past month. we recieved a 10% aaa discount on the entire amount. evidently the policy has changed
I tried the Way Back Machine at http://www.archive.org/ to check the Amtrak site from a few years ago but Amtrak has its site blocked from the archining spider! You could be right though! I only found the page about a month ago!
 
...interesting and somewhat disheartening. our last sleeper reservation, not counting agr redemptions, was made late last year for travel this past month. we recieved a 10% aaa discount on the entire amount. evidently the policy has changed
I think you will find that you did not get the AAA discount on the sleeper accommodation charge. The application of the AAA discount to rail fare only has been in place for as long as I can remember. There have been very rare instances of special AAA discounts being applied to sleeping car charges, but none within the last couple of years.
Agreed. This is a long standing policy, no AAA discount, NARP, or senior discount on the sleeping car accomodation charge.
 
...interesting and somewhat disheartening. our last sleeper reservation, not counting agr redemptions, was made late last year for travel this past month. we recieved a 10% aaa discount on the entire amount. evidently the policy has changed
I think you will find that you did not get the AAA discount on the sleeper accommodation charge. The application of the AAA discount to rail fare only has been in place for as long as I can remember. There have been very rare instances of special AAA discounts being applied to sleeping car charges, but none within the last couple of years.
Agreed. This is a long standing policy, no AAA discount, NARP, or senior discount on the sleeping car accomodation charge.
Disability Discount????
 
...interesting and somewhat disheartening. our last sleeper reservation, not counting agr redemptions, was made late last year for travel this past month. we recieved a 10% aaa discount on the entire amount. evidently the policy has changed
I think you will find that you did not get the AAA discount on the sleeper accommodation charge. The application of the AAA discount to rail fare only has been in place for as long as I can remember. There have been very rare instances of special AAA discounts being applied to sleeping car charges, but none within the last couple of years.
Agreed. This is a long standing policy, no AAA discount, NARP, or senior discount on the sleeping car accomodation charge.
Disability Discount????
That's a different story.
 
Last Feb. I called Amtrack about 7 or 8 times til I found my 11 day trip in the H-Room in Sept.Orl-Was-Chi-Seattle-Sac-Chi-Was- Orl = $2,083.00 Lucky, I guess!!!! :) Lookin for another deal like that!!!! B)
RF,

If your interested, here are the costs of my trips for two in an H Room for this year and next year:

2008: ALB>CHI>FLG & FLG>CHI>ALB $ 1851.30

Via..... LSL/SWC & SWC/LSL

2009: ALB>CHI>LAX, LAX>PDX & PDX>CHI>ALB $ 2494.75

Via..... LSL/SWC, CS & EB/LSL
 
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...interesting and somewhat disheartening. our last sleeper reservation, not counting agr redemptions, was made late last year for travel this past month. we recieved a 10% aaa discount on the entire amount. evidently the policy has changed
I think you will find that you did not get the AAA discount on the sleeper accommodation charge. The application of the AAA discount to rail fare only has been in place for as long as I can remember. There have been very rare instances of special AAA discounts being applied to sleeping car charges, but none within the last couple of years.
Agreed. This is a long standing policy, no AAA discount, NARP, or senior discount on the sleeping car accomodation charge.
Disability Discount????
The disability discount cannot be combined with any other discount including AAA.

Edit: Perhaps that would be better stated as... No AAA or any other discounts can be combined with a disability discount, or so I've been told!
 
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I've posted this question before but can't seem to get an answer. The Disabiliy Discount is what %, off which Fare? :unsure:
IIRC the discount is 15%, but as to "off which fare," I've yet to figure that one out. I've heard that the H room discounted rate is supposed to be compriable to the cost of a roomette. However, that's near impossible to figure out since you can call for a price on either room 3 times within minutes of each other, using the same exact iteniary, and get 3 different prices! :blink:
 
I do not believe that you can compare airline travel to train travel. On a train, sitting in a chair deprives you of a shower and the ability to truly be recumbent for days. On a plane, that deprivation only lasts for a few measly hours. First class upgrades on a plane pale to those on a train, those certainly can not be compared.

If I had _any_ interest in commercial flying, I would not be here. I'd be going into the airport and dealing with all their security measures that essentially make me a POW and I'd be paying through the nose to do it. I'm no glutton for punishment.

If I had a higher paying job, odds are I wouldn't have the time to travel. Rail travel is supposed to be cheap, and a Public Service (de facto by creation of Amtrak), so the government does have to subsidize it. The airlines are still "real" private enterprise and shouldn't be government-controlled OR bailed out, so why don't they direct that asinine temporary-fix bailout money over to Amtrak, where it could be used for something actually in national interest.

I agree with the post which stated that amtrak's fares for advanced reservation aren't the cheapest at the 11 month maximum out, as the minimum cost for WAS to CHI for a roomette is supposed to be 117 dollars, a far cry from 308.

I have the AAA, The Student Advantage (once I finally receive my card), and the ISIC card. They help, but they don't truly combat the egregious pricing. It is cheaper to drive to many places that amtrak serves, and you'd be even more comfortable than in coach, which defeats my purpose in riding the train.

I have managed to find some actually affordable roomettes, so I may still be able to partake, but for a travel means which proclaims its suitability for those on a budget, it has certainly become the Rich Man's Plaything. The Concorde of America, if you will. If amtrak claimed to be a high priced elite service, I could understand their pricing, but amtrak markets themselves as the opposite.
 
I do not believe that you can compare airline travel to train travel. On a train, sitting in a chair deprives you of a shower and the ability to truly be recumbent for days. On a plane, that deprivation only lasts for a few measly hours. First class upgrades on a plane pale to those on a train, those certainly can not be compared.
In the long term, if all of Amtrak's routes become electrified, this becomes a key part of the argument for why sleeper travel ought to become a bit cheaper than coach airline travel: electric trains run on mostly domestic power (and getting that to all domestic power is relatively easy compared to getting airplanes or automobiles running entirely on domestic energy). Airplanes run on petroleum, much of which has to be imported. Giving people a financial incentive to burn petroleum instead of using domestic energy would be bad.

If the TSA insanity weren't so insane, I think I might consider a three hour flight more pleasant than a 12 hour coach trip on Amtrak.
 
The TSA's Big Brother-esque security crackdown only affects passengers when they're on the ground, iirc. To me, the partial strip searches and other atrocities of the TSA at the airports could only be compared to the boarding process on amtrak at the station, which appears effortless to me.

The train rolling along the tracks is what I compare to the actual few hours in flight, which is far better than being stuck "wedged" between people for days where amtrak's shower deprivation leads to stereotypical bad hygiene.

Personally, even if the TSA didn't want to rifle through my bags and scan me with everything short of an MRI, I still wouldn't fly as flying doesn't really count as a journey. There's no experience, it's like a long distance metro train.

(The only flying experiences I hear about are the TSA's high handed invasions of privacy and POW-esque treatment, and in your scenario, those experiences would be no more, so flying really would be experienceless)

Edit--Yes, maybe if we caught up with France and got ourselves some nuclear power, we could make trains significantly cheaper than their lame flying counterparts. I don't understand why the most "environmentally conscious" state in the nation uses so much power that they're leading us to blackout city. You'd think they'd want to build nuclear plants, as you can not get more green than nuclear energy :D Electric trains are a cool invention, and unlike the electric car (which people still clamor for) electric trains are actually practical. Practical is good as Rail Travel needs to endure, because it is the last transit stand to go any real distance without having to fly. Ship travel is gone, rail travel didn't even take off in south america due to planes... Commercial Flying is not what I want to have my transit monopoly.
 
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I agree with the post which stated that amtrak's fares for advanced reservation aren't the cheapest at the 11 month maximum out, as the minimum cost for WAS to CHI for a roomette is supposed to be 117 dollars, a far cry from 308.
I have the AAA, The Student Advantage (once I finally receive my card), and the ISIC card. They help, but they don't truly combat the egregious pricing. It is cheaper to drive to many places that amtrak serves, and you'd be even more comfortable than in coach, which defeats my purpose in riding the train.

I have managed to find some actually affordable roomettes, so I may still be able to partake, but for a travel means which proclaims its suitability for those on a budget, it has certainly become the Rich Man's Plaything. The Concorde of America, if you will. If amtrak claimed to be a high priced elite service, I could understand their pricing, but amtrak markets themselves as the opposite.
Hmm, I see that a CHI-WAS roomette on October 12 is $123, so the roomettes are available in the low bucket. Given that all the bedrooms on the Capitol Limited are sold out for October 12 WAS-CHI, you can't expect that there are still roomettes left at the lowest bucket.

I doubt that it is cheaper to drive (especially alone) than to ride in coach on Amtrak, if you consider all the costs. This weekend I took a 1000 mile round trip ride on the Empire Builder for about $200 (for 2 people). Driving would have cost $300-400, depending on which mileage rate you prefer.

I've never noticed Amtrak sleeper service as advertised as inexpensive. Usually the complaint is that you pay 1st class prices but don't get first class service. For what it's worth, I remember paying more than $1000 to Amtrak for my honeymoon (Washington-New Orleans-Chicago-Washington), and that was 16 years ago. Grabbing an itinerary at random for February, I come up with $1075 in roomette. Not much change after 16 years of inflation.

The basic problem is this: there's a shortage of sleepers compared to the demand. Until there are more sleeping cars, this means that either you'll have expensive roomettes or they will be filled up months ahead of time. I prefer the first varient.
 
I do not believe that you can compare airline travel to train travel. On a train, sitting in a chair deprives you of a shower and the ability to truly be recumbent for days. On a plane, that deprivation only lasts for a few measly hours. First class upgrades on a plane pale to those on a train, those certainly can not be compared.
Why can't you compare the two? They're both methods of moving self-loading cargo from one point to another. Each has benefits and weaknesses; a comparison is totally valid. It's something Amtrak should consider doing more for trains like the LSL and CL, where the ability to get a good night's sleep and finish a lot of work might really help sell the service.

As for aircraft first-class paling in comparison to on the train: how so? Maybe you're thinking of domestic F.

Some nice photos of real first class: photo 1, photo 2, photo 3, and so on...

The service and food in F or C is generally far superior to Amtrak sleeper "first" class.
 
I've never noticed Amtrak sleeper service as advertised as inexpensive. Usually the complaint is that you pay 1st class prices but don't get first class service.
If you run the numbers for 2 people traveling together, a roomette is usually cheaper than F airfare. A bedroom is also often cheaper. A roomette might be cheaper than coach airfare.

I did a quick comparison for NYP-CHI on FlyerTalk.
 
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