Silver Star has new Café menu and no diner

[jis]

Yes.Food is included in the Sleeper Room charge on all LD trains Superliner or otherwise, except on the Silver Star.

 

[keelhauled]

Why the heck is it, that just because a train has a diner on it, that sleeping car accommodations are more expensive?

The majority of the diner's revenue comes from the transfer of sleeper revenue to the diner account. Presumably the sleeper is priced on the assumption that each passenger will eat three meals in the diner, and you effectively pay for them when you purchase the ticket instead of out of pocket when you actually eat, and then after the fact based on the records of what you actually ate, the appropriate money is transferred between lines in the records.

Paying more for a sleeper just to get diner meals makes no sense in my opinion.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. You have to pay at some point.

I mean, is it the same way on the Superliner trains?

Yes.

 

[keelhauled]

The most recent Star menu with the new entrees has been posted.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The most recent Star menu with the new entrees has been posted.

National Cafe Prices...



New Silver Star Prices...



I suppose we should expect prices to keep increasing, and probably expect quality to continue decreasing, until Amtrak can "break even" on food and beverage services.

Think I'll go watch cartoons on TV and let the forum gourmets get their panties all in a wad over food. Sheesh.

*gourmands

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Why the heck is it, that just because a train has a diner on it, that sleeping car accommodations are more expensive?

The majority of the diner's revenue comes from the transfer of sleeper revenue to the diner account. Presumably the sleeper is priced on the assumption that each passenger will eat three meals in the diner, and you effectively pay for them when you purchase the ticket instead of out of pocket when you actually eat, and then after the fact based on the records of what you actually ate, the appropriate money is transferred between lines in the records.

Paying more for a sleeper just to get diner meals makes no sense in my opinion.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. You have to pay at some point.

Right. It's just, even coach passengers eat in the diner, but how come you have to pay more for a sleeper but not a coach seat just because of the diner? I mean, you pay for meals separately from your ticket, correct?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Why the heck is it, that just because a train has a diner on it, that sleeping car accommodations are more expensive?

The majority of the diner's revenue comes from the transfer of sleeper revenue to the diner account. Presumably the sleeper is priced on the assumption that each passenger will eat three meals in the diner, and you effectively pay for them when you purchase the ticket instead of out of pocket when you actually eat, and then after the fact based on the records of what you actually ate, the appropriate money is transferred between lines in the records.

Paying more for a sleeper just to get diner meals makes no sense in my opinion.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. You have to pay at some point.

Right. It's just, even coach passengers eat in the diner, but how come you have to pay more for a sleeper but not a coach seat just because of the diner? I mean, you pay for meals separately from your ticket, correct?

See the bolded. THE SLEEPER PRICE INCLUDES THE COST OF MEALS!!!

 

[CCC1007]

Why the heck is it, that just because a train has a diner on it, that sleeping car accommodations are more expensive?

The majority of the diner's revenue comes from the transfer of sleeper revenue to the diner account. Presumably the sleeper is priced on the assumption that each passenger will eat three meals in the diner, and you effectively pay for them when you purchase the ticket instead of out of pocket when you actually eat, and then after the fact based on the records of what you actually ate, the appropriate money is transferred between lines in the records.

Paying more for a sleeper just to get diner meals makes no sense in my opinion.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. You have to pay at some point.

Right. It's just, even coach passengers eat in the diner, but how come you have to pay more for a sleeper but not a coach seat just because of the diner? I mean, you pay for meals separately from your ticket, correct?

The sleeper fare includes food on all but the star.

 

[ScouseAndy]

Why the heck is it, that just because a train has a diner on it, that sleeping car accommodations are more expensive?

The majority of the diner's revenue comes from the transfer of sleeper revenue to the diner account. Presumably the sleeper is priced on the assumption that each passenger will eat three meals in the diner, and you effectively pay for them when you purchase the ticket instead of out of pocket when you actually eat, and then after the fact based on the records of what you actually ate, the appropriate money is transferred between lines in the records.

Paying more for a sleeper just to get diner meals makes no sense in my opinion.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. You have to pay at some point.

Right. It's just, even coach passengers eat in the diner, but how come you have to pay more for a sleeper but not a coach seat just because of the diner? I mean, you pay for meals separately from your ticket, correct?

Sleeper class get meals included with their tickets with the exception of the Stavation

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Amtrak's Silver Starvation has a nice ring to it.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Why the heck is it, that just because a train has a diner on it, that sleeping car accommodations are more expensive?

The majority of the diner's revenue comes from the transfer of sleeper revenue to the diner account. Presumably the sleeper is priced on the assumption that each passenger will eat three meals in the diner, and you effectively pay for them when you purchase the ticket instead of out of pocket when you actually eat, and then after the fact based on the records of what you actually ate, the appropriate money is transferred between lines in the records.

Philly to Orlando, Leaving Fri. May 27, Roomette fare. From Amtrak website

SS: $360

SM: $448

Difference: $88

I'm guessing on the SM with a 4:58pm - 12:49pm schedule you'd be entitled to dinner on the 27th and breakfast and lunch on the 28th.

https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/815/302/Silver-Meteor-Dining-Car-Menu-0416.pdf

Examples of meals:

Dinner:

Steak $24.75

Salad: $3

Soft Drink/Bottled Water: $2.25

Ice Cream: $4.25

Breakfast:

Scrambled Eggs $7.50

Bacon: $3.75

Milk, Coffee, Tea, Juice $2.00

Lunch:

Angus Burger $11.50

Cheese $1.00

Bacon $2.50

Soft Drink/Bottled Water: $2.25

Total: $64.75 ($23.25 less than what you paid extra to ride the SM).

I think my $64.75 is for three pretty good meals (including the steak which is already the highest priced entree) so I'd imagine the extra charge for the meals vs. the SS is more than they are worth (using Amtrak prices). So assuming the SS did have a diner and you could just pay for the room and meals separately it would be cheaper to take a SS roomette + the meals I listed than taking a SM roomette with the same meals (unless you can find $23.25 worth of extra food). In this example, you can argue you are paying more for the SM room than the SS room. Of course this is just an example for the day and menus used.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Why the heck is it, that just because a train has a diner on it, that sleeping car accommodations are more expensive?

The majority of the diner's revenue comes from the transfer of sleeper revenue to the diner account. Presumably the sleeper is priced on the assumption that each passenger will eat three meals in the diner, and you effectively pay for them when you purchase the ticket instead of out of pocket when you actually eat, and then after the fact based on the records of what you actually ate, the appropriate money is transferred between lines in the records.

Philly to Orlando, Leaving Fri. May 27, Roomette fare. From Amtrak website

SS: $360

SM: $448

Difference: $88

I'm guessing on the SM with a 4:58pm - 12:49pm schedule you'd be entitled to dinner on the 27th and breakfast and lunch on the 28th.

https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/815/302/Silver-Meteor-Dining-Car-Menu-0416.pdf

Examples of meals:

Dinner:

Steak $24.75

Salad: $3

Soft Drink/Bottled Water: $2.25

Ice Cream: $4.25

Breakfast:

Scrambled Eggs $7.50

Bacon: $3.75

Milk, Coffee, Tea, Juice $2.00

Lunch:

Angus Burger $11.50

Cheese $1.00

Bacon $2.50

Soft Drink/Bottled Water: $2.25

Total: $64.75 ($23.25 less than what you paid extra to ride the SM).

I think my $64.75 is for three pretty good meals (including the steak which is already the highest priced entree) so I'd imagine the extra charge for the meals vs. the SS is more than they are worth (using Amtrak prices). So assuming the SS did have a diner and you could just pay for the room and meals separately it would be cheaper to take a SS roomette + the meals I listed than taking a SM roomette with the same meals (unless you can find $23.25 worth of extra food). In this example, you can argue you are paying more for the SM room than the SS room. Of course this is just an example for the day and menus used.

How about $64.75 times 2 (room charge is priced at 2 people in the room even if there is only one person). $129.50.

 

[Palmetto]

The wheels of the bus train go round and round

Enuf said.

 

[dlagrua]

I would venture to say that most train travelers that go in sleeper class don't take that many overnight LD trips per year. As such it should not be a terrible burden paying the price differential for food service. Having breakfast, lunch and or dinner in the dining car also makes the trip more enjoyable, offers a change of scenery and the trip appear shorter. It can also lead to some interesting discussion with folks at meal time. When you travel by plane you seldom see people congregating, talking and sharing friendship. On a train the dining and sightseer lounge cars offer an opportunity for social interaction and this provides opportunity for a more enjoyable trip . On an overnight train trip the meal service is a requirement for our travel.

 

[user 6862]

Well put dlagrua

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

I agree with dlagrua, too. And on the Viewliners, there is no sightseer lounge, so the dining car is the only place to socialize outside of the café car (and, in my experience, at least on the Northeast Regionals, nobody in the café car wants to talk with anyone else).

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I would venture to say that most train travelers that go in sleeper class don't take that many overnight LD trips per year. As such it should not be a terrible burden paying the price differential for food service.

But the current price difference does not cover the food service costs... that's why we are having this discussion in the first place. So what's the solution? Amtrak charges even more for sleeping car passengers to fully cover the dining car expenses? Amtrak continues to lose money on dining car service? Or Amtrak tries to cut food service costs while still supplying basic food service (AKA "the cafe").

It's a lose lose scenario for Amtrak and the passengers.

 

[MARC Rider]

I would venture to say that most train travelers that go in sleeper class don't take that many overnight LD trips per year. As such it should not be a terrible burden paying the price differential for food service.

But the current price difference does not cover the food service costs... that's why we are having this discussion in the first place. So what's the solution? Amtrak charges even more for sleeping car passengers to fully cover the dining car expenses? Amtrak continues to lose money on dining car service? Or Amtrak tries to cut food service costs while still supplying basic food service (AKA "the cafe").

It's a lose lose scenario for Amtrak and the passengers.

There is another option. They could spin off the dining car ops to a separate company, let's call it the "Fred Harvey Company," (although I think that Xanterra might have a word or two about using that particular name). That company can run the dining cars totally free from congressional micromanagement. Heck, if you had the right culinary geniuses, the dining car might be such a hit that people will take shorter rides on the train just to eat in the dining car, thus increasing revenue for Amtrak. (After all, aren't there businesses called "dinner trains" that seems to be able to stay in business?) Amtrak could continue to run the cafes to provide basic food services. And maybe instead of one large catering corporation, they'd franchise dining car operations on individual trains to smaller businesses that work on lower overheads. We could have the "Chef Anthony Bourdain Silver Meteor" on the one hand and the "Chef Jose Andres Capitol Limited" on the other.

 

[jis]

Just as a case study of such, Indian Railways has been doing such contracting out. Only certain trains have Indian Railways' own IRCTC provided food service, while others are contracted out. Unfortunately so far the experience has been a mixed bag with some contractor services being at par or better than IRCTC while others are far worse. They have not quite figured out how to do proper quality control of the contractors.

 

[jis]

There is another option. They could spin off the dining car ops to a separate company, let's call it the "Fred Harvey Company," (although I think that Xanterra might have a word or two about using that particular name). That company can run the dining cars totally free from congressional micromanagement. Heck, if you had the right culinary geniuses, the dining car might be such a hit that people will take shorter rides on the train just to eat in the dining car, thus increasing revenue for Amtrak. (After all, aren't there businesses called "dinner trains" that seems to be able to stay in business?) Amtrak could continue to run the cafes to provide basic food services. And maybe instead of one large catering corporation, they'd franchise dining car operations on individual trains to smaller businesses that work on lower overheads. We could have the "Chef Anthony Bourdain Silver Meteor" on the one hand. and the "Chef Jose Andres Capitol Limited" on the other.

They could also make significant advances in the technology of cloning Chefs to get four copies of Chef Bourdain .... just kidding. Then look at all the opportunities of including information on which Chef will be on which train on which days of the month. Now if that does not justify printing National Timetables again, I don;t know what possibly will.

Please don;t take what I am saying seriously. Just having a little fun imagining how things could be.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Contracting out is another option I suppose... but I'm not sure how many companies would want it. Iowa Pacific would be a good candidate, since they have proven they know how to accomplish it.

I also can't imagine that anyone who did become the contractor, would improve the food quality much. They would be looking at ways to serve food the most economical way possible as well.. and that would involve alot of pre-made food.

Again... if a company like Iowa Pacific, who actually cares about the heritage of dining cars and the quality of the product were to be involved... MAYBE. But a big company like Xantera, or a chain restaurant?

 

[Bob Dylan]

It wasn't but a couple of years ago that we were discussing here on AU how much the food had improved in the Diners on Amtrak LD Trains!

And IMHO some Chain restuarants turn out much better meals at lower prices than the current bland, uninspired fare being served in the Diners!

 

[MARC Rider]

Contracting out is another option I suppose... but I'm not sure how many companies would want it. Iowa Pacific would be a good candidate, since they have proven they know how to accomplish it.

I also can't imagine that anyone who did become the contractor, would improve the food quality much. They would be looking at ways to serve food the most economical way possible as well.. and that would involve alot of pre-made food.

Again... if a company like Iowa Pacific, who actually cares about the heritage of dining cars and the quality of the product were to be involved... MAYBE. But a big company like Xantera, or a chain restaurant?

There are restaurateurs who provide very good food in small restaurants and are financially successful. Maybe the problem is that the catering contractors/chain restaurants everyone looks at first are used to working at a different scale, and also have unreasonable expectations of profit, executive pay, and overhead. I've never seen detailed (or even not so detailed) financial numbers for either the Amtrak Food and Beverage as a whole, or a possible business plan for a railroad dining car. It seems like it should be a decent business proposition. A captive audience of several hundred people for something they need, and for which eating in the dining car is part of the train-ride experience.

 

[jis]

The problem is labor cost in a railroad restaurant car apparently. No one is willing to work under the conditions prevailing a railroad restaurant car operating on a train over two or three days for the pay grades that prevail in on ground restaurants. apparently.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It wasn't but a couple of years ago that we were discussing here on AU how much the food had improved in the Diners on Amtrak LD Trains!

Even I had to admit things were improving substantially, and I was honestly glad to do so, especially in the case of Amtrak's Chef Inspired meals. Each time they added something new on the Chef Inspired list I found myself more and more eager to try it. And then the Mica/Shuster/Boardman cuts started rolling down the pipe and it all went to crap again. In fact I'd say it's the worst I've seen in many years now.

IMHO some Chain restuarants turn out much better meals at lower prices than the current bland, uninspired fare being served in the Diners!

I know we often compare Amtrak to Applebees or Chilis as a matter of habit but Amtrak meals today are so bland and stale that they seem to have more in common with retirement home meals than a conventional sit down restaurant. Even bottom rung restaurant chains like Denny's and Subway are far more appetizing than Amtrak's precooked frozen meat puck hamburgers or their limp and tasteless frozen vegetable medley.

The problem is labor cost in a railroad restaurant car apparently. No one is willing to work under the conditions prevailing a railroad restaurant car operating on a train over two or three days for the pay grades that prevail in on ground restaurants. apparently.

Wasn't there a plan to employ Subway (or a similar chain) as part of a test run on at least one Amtrak route until the union balked at the idea? I'm not anti-union myself, but if this is the very best quality they can manage then I would hope they would be willing to get out of the way and give someone else a try.

 

[jis]

Yes DA. That was on the Empire Corridor. Lasted but a few days if that.