Silver Star has new Café menu and no diner

[niemi24s]

Hi Ryan:

Two things:

• During a failed attempt to use the quote function in your Post #50, the text of your question seems to have disappeared! Thought the poster (or a moderator) was the only one who could alter a post.

• In response to your now-gone question (assuming it was directed my way), the figures I used as a basis for my info in Post #48 came from page A-3.4 (total ridership and revenue for each train) and page A-3.5 (sleeper ridership and revenue for each train) of the pertinent Amtrak Monthly Performance Report for each month: http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/525/92/Amtrak-Monthly-Performance-Report-August-2015.pdf The rest was just a bit of arithmetic.

 

[Ryan]

Yes, I'm aware of the monthly reports, but the numbers you quote aren't in them. Took me a minute to figure out what you did, which is why I withdrew the question.

 

[fairviewroad]

It is just a very informed rumor mill if you will, where a surprisingly large proportion of rumors turn out to be true eventually.

Having been on this site for several years now, I have come to appreciate this point. I used to be more of the "official sources only, please" persuasion but I have come to find that it's enjoyable to read the "insider" rumors.

If you go to places like Flyertalk, there are tons of "I overhead a flight attendant and a gate agent discussing a possible new route to XYZ" and those don't seem to pan out that much. But the "gossip" here has been much more hit than miss. It's easy to tell the difference between a foamer-type WAG and a reasonable sounding proclamation of something that, dontchaknow, might actually happen.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

It's very much like living in a small town--some facts, some gossip, some gossip more reliable than other gossip. But always interesting!

If this is true about the Silver Star dining car experiment being extended, it seems almost like a "bait and switch"--they said they'd put the diner back in February, but they lied. The question is why? (Aside from Amtrak wanting to ruin anything nice, of course.)

Yes, I am bitter about this. I love the Star.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

It's very much like living in a small town--some facts, some gossip, some gossip more reliable than other gossip. But always interesting!

If this is true about the Silver Star dining car experiment being extended, it seems almost like a "bait and switch"--they said they'd put the diner back in February, but they lied. The question is why? (Aside from Amtrak wanting to ruin anything nice, of course.)

Yes, I am bitter about this. I love the Star.

Perhaps they "lied" because they thought they may have some new diners by Feb 1st.

 

[keelhauled]

!

If this is true about the Silver Star dining car experiment being extended, it seems almost like a "bait and switch"--they said they'd put the diner back in February, but they lied. The question is why?

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.

 

[jis]

Or unforeseen developments.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't expect every rumor to come true or be accompanied with a certificate of authenticity. Post what you want, let people believe it or disbelieve it, and then be proven or disproven if and when your claim should come to pass. I guess I just don't understand the surprise or the concern. Unless and until AU is joined by official Flyertalk style ambassadors it will be up to each of us to evaluate the accuracy and relevance of any given claim.

 

[jis]

DA that infallible part would be your unfounded contribution if you are suggesting that is the case at AU. But hey it is infallible right?

 

[neroden]

Here is an example menu of the fare available in the TGV Cafe/Bar:

http://www.seat61.com/images/tgv-train-bar-menu.jpg

If Amtrak could vaguely match this Cafe would become a very usable facility I think, even as a Diner substitute on the Star.

Not quite so much wine (boy the French like their wine), and there should be dairy-free and gluten-free selections standard, and ingredients should be available... but yes, I generally agree with that concept.

 

[neroden]

Ruh-roh... The no diner "experiment" on the Silver Star has been extended through April 30, 2016.

Must be a Huge success!
The Bean Counters @ 60 Mass will probably be holding meetings to find other routes on which to try this "experiment"!

Now that all the dust seems to have settled after my "who sez?" post (I didn't know AmtrakLKL was our mole), kindly allow me opportunity to humbly provide the following regarding Bob Dylan's post:
• Judging from the averages of the July & August 2015 Amtrak monthly reports, it does indeed appear to be a success. Sleeper ridership on the Star rose 30.3% when compared to June 2015. That same comparison done for 2014 showed a ridership increase of 1.9%. The figures for the Meteor over those same periods show ridership increases of 9.4% for 2015 and 5.8% for 2014.

No, that's a failure. That's just people filling the rooms vacated by the former dining car staff. The trouble is, *they're paying a lot less* for the rooms, so it's a financial loss for Amtrak.
If Amtrak had simply added another Viewliner, they could have gotten the same increase in riders. Of course, this gets back to the car shortage problem.

 

[neroden]

Or maybe they were hoping to have the new diners ready by Feb and now hope to have them by May.

This fits with previous documents indicating that the new diners would be ready by February and more recent leaks indicating that that is impossible.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Ruh-roh... The no diner "experiment" on the Silver Star has been extended through April 30, 2016.

Must be a Huge success!
The Bean Counters @ 60 Mass will probably be holding meetings to find other routes on which to try this "experiment"!

Now that all the dust seems to have settled after my "who sez?" post (I didn't know AmtrakLKL was our mole), kindly allow me opportunity to humbly provide the following regarding Bob Dylan's post:
• Judging from the averages of the July & August 2015 Amtrak monthly reports, it does indeed appear to be a success. Sleeper ridership on the Star rose 30.3% when compared to June 2015. That same comparison done for 2014 showed a ridership increase of 1.9%. The figures for the Meteor over those same periods show ridership increases of 9.4% for 2015 and 5.8% for 2014.

No, that's a failure. That's just people filling the rooms vacated by the former dining car staff. The trouble is, *they're paying a lot less* for the rooms, so it's a financial loss for Amtrak.
If Amtrak had simply added another Viewliner, they could have gotten the same increase in riders. Of course, this gets back to the car shortage problem.

What if the new sleeper audience came from the former coach audience and they now paid more since it was more affordable? Does anyone have the revenue numbers?

 

[Ryan]

They're right there in the report - going from memory, they're basically flat.

Edit:

July posted a 26.2 percent ridership gain in the sleeping cars and a 1.8% decline in revenue.

August posted a 23.5 percent ridership gain in the sleeping cars and a 6% decline in revenue.

(both over the same month in 2014)

 

[niemi24s]

There must be something about this that escapes me. The average monthly sleeper ridership for July & August this year was 3,437. For June this year it was 2,637 for an increase of 800 riders per month. As there are around 60 trains per month, that's an increase of 800 ÷ 60 = 13 sleeper riders per train.

So a Viewliner diner is staffed by 13 people? Wow!

 

[Ryan]

Staff rooms, by definition, are single occupancy.

Revenue rooms aren't necessarily so.

 

[niemi24s]

No, that's a failure. That's just people filling the rooms vacated by the former dining car staff.

The average sleeper ridership for the Star in July & August 2015 was 3.437. Deducting the 2.637 sleeper riders in June 2015 gives an increase of 800 sleeper riders. As there are, say, 60 trains per month the increase in sleeper riders per train works out to 800 ÷ 60 = 13.

So the staff of a Viewliner dining car is 13 people? Wow!

 

[Ryan]

Do you ever read before posting?

 

[niemi24s]

So if 800 more sleeper riders on the average for the first two months of the test when compared to June 2015 (as opposed to only 52 more sleeper riders in a similar comparison for 2014) is a failure...

Q: How many many more sleeper riders above that 800 per month would it have taken for the test to be considered even marginally successful (assuming an unlimited supply of sleeper cars)?

...bearing in mind that sleeper revenues were down about $27,000 or 3.9% when compared to July & August of 2014. My math tells me it would have taken 138 more sleeper riders over that two month period or a little more than 2 per train to wipe out that $27,000 decrease. What does your math tell you?

 

[TiBike]

That being said, some airlines stock more liquor than others, a few still offer it for free or at a reduced cost on TATL and TPAC flights, and some airport bars have implemented automatic pouring devices which can negate much of the potential cost savings. So, in some cases your mileage may vary, but in general this has been my experience.

Alaska Airlines flights operated by Horizon offer free beer, good local brews. Something as simple as that makes you look forward to the flight.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

If this is true about the Silver Star dining car experiment being extended, it seems almost like a "bait and switch"--they said they'd put the diner back in February, but they lied. The question is why? (Aside from Amtrak wanting to ruin anything nice, of course.)

Yes, I am bitter about this. I love the Star.

Perhaps they "lied" because they thought they may have some new diners by Feb 1st.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.

Or unforeseen developments.

AmtrakBlue, keelhauled, and jis--I am in a much more charitable mood today, and I agree that all of your suggestions are quite possible. I will give Amtrak the benefit of the doubt this time. But if they mess with the Meteor next, or my favorite, the Keystone, they will be getting a very stern letter from me.

Also, this is the first time I have figured out how to post more than one answer in a reply--my tech knowledge is growing!

 

[Paulus]

Ruh-roh... The no diner "experiment" on the Silver Star has been extended through April 30, 2016.

Must be a Huge success!
The Bean Counters @ 60 Mass will probably be holding meetings to find other routes on which to try this "experiment"!

Now that all the dust seems to have settled after my "who sez?" post (I didn't know AmtrakLKL was our mole), kindly allow me opportunity to humbly provide the following regarding Bob Dylan's post:
Judging from the averages of the July & August 2015 Amtrak monthly reports, it does indeed appear to be a success. Sleeper ridership on the Star rose 30.3% when compared to June 2015. That same comparison done for 2014 showed a ridership increase of 1.9%. The figures for the Meteor over those same periods show ridership increases of 9.4% for 2015 and 5.8% for 2014.

No, that's a failure. That's just people filling the rooms vacated by the former dining car staff. The trouble is, *they're paying a lot less* for the rooms, so it's a financial loss for Amtrak.
If Amtrak had simply added another Viewliner, they could have gotten the same increase in riders. Of course, this gets back to the car shortage problem.

Expenses are down significantly, so it's a financial gain for Amtrak so far.

 

[Train2104]

Now that all the dust seems to have settled after my "who sez?" post (I didn't know AmtrakLKL was our mole), kindly allow me opportunity to humbly provide the following regarding Bob Dylan's post:

Judging from the averages of the July & August 2015 Amtrak monthly reports, it does indeed appear to be a success. Sleeper ridership on the Star rose 30.3% when compared to June 2015. That same comparison done for 2014 showed a ridership increase of 1.9%. The figures for the Meteor over those same periods show ridership increases of 9.4% for 2015 and 5.8% for 2014.

No, that's a failure. That's just people filling the rooms vacated by the former dining car staff. The trouble is, *they're paying a lot less* for the rooms, so it's a financial loss for Amtrak.
If Amtrak had simply added another Viewliner, they could have gotten the same increase in riders. Of course, this gets back to the car shortage problem.

Expenses are down significantly, so it's a financial gain for Amtrak so far.

Yes, revenue has fallen slightly - perhaps the unbundled fares need to be raised slightly. But a few percentage points of fare increase will still be a huge net decrease over the bundled fares.

If it's a net financial gain for Amtrak AND they're consistently increasing load factors/turnover in both coach and sleeper throughout the route, I'd call it a success. It seems we're most of the way there, but total (coach and sleeper) ridership in August fell more than the LD average. I wonder if people are just upgrading, without attracting new riders.

 

[niemi24s]

It would certainly be nice to know how Amtrak intends to judge the failure or success of the no-diner experiment on the Silver Star. Because that's the only judgement that really, truly matters. What any of us decrees, claims or opines (regardless of many posts we have made) makes no difference to Amtrak. And if it makes no difference to Amtrak it simply does not matter at all. In Bob Dylan's opinion it's a success. In Neroden's opinion it's a failure.

With a measly 500+ posts, my opinion matters not - except it does seem to stir things up occasionally. So how about this poser that's been sitting around for more than 26 hours in Post #69:

Q: How many many more sleeper riders above that 800 per month would it have taken for the test to be considered even marginally successful (assuming an unlimited supply of sleeper cars)?

 

[Ryan]

I think the answer is in the first line of that post - depends on what metric you want to judge as "success".