SNCF launches mainline Ouigo service

[Willbridge]

It's Classique! In other words, a regular train.

International Railway Journal

High speed and conventional speed Ouigo trains will be separately identified. An important element of the new conventional service is controversial labor efficiencies in exchange for higher pay.

 

[slasher-fun]

controversial labor efficiencies in exchange for higher pay.

To be more specific, unlike the high-speed service, the conventional speed service is operated by a separate subsidiary, named Oslo (Offre de Services Librement Organisés), that employs the train staff. Since the rolling stock contains asbestos, to circumvent French law that prohibit selling such material, the rolling stock is rented by SNCF Voyageurs to Oslo.

But like all Ouigo services, this is a distinct service from TGV, which means:
- SNCF discount and frequent traveller cards aren't valid (the main discount card basically forces you to book a return trip: if one leg is on a TGV and the other leg on a Ouigo, you don't get any discount)
- There is no connection guarantee: if your Ouigo/TGV is late and you miss your TGV/Ouigo connection, it's your loss (officially... because SNCF will in fact accomodate travellers from its own subsidiaries, but not those from other companies such as Trenitalia, which is not really fair to me)

SNCF is slowly making train travel in France way more complicated that it could be :/

 

[cirdan]

- There is no connection guarantee: if your Ouigo/TGV is late and you miss your TGV/Ouigo connection, it's your loss (officially... because SNCF will in fact accomodate travellers from its own subsidiaries, but not those from other companies such as Trenitalia, which is not really fair to me)

If you have a UIC ticket, every company participating in UIC is obligated to honor the ticket and obligations of any other company. So it doesn't matter whether it was an SNCF train that was delayed or a Trenitalia train. If you are stranded in an SNCF station through no fault of your own, it is SNCF's job to help you and especially to permit you to continue your onward journey using the next reasonable connection at no additional cost to yourself, even if the next train is in a higher price category.

In reality, unfortunately, many companies try to worm their way out of this by selling non-UIC tickets (and hiding the fact in the small print). Thus you may be offered a saver fare at a lower price than the UIC ticket and most people unthinkingly assume that must be a no-brainer and go for the cheaper option.

I believe Ouigo is not an UIC member so they don't even need to go through the motions of pretending to offer you an alternative.

SNCF is slowly making train travel in France way more complicated that it could be :/

This has been going on for quite a while unfortunately.

 

[slasher-fun]

If you have a UIC ticket, every company participating in UIC is obligated to honor the ticket and obligations of any other company. So it doesn't matter whether it was an SNCF train that was delayed or a Trenitalia train. If you are stranded in an SNCF station through no fault of your own, it is SNCF's job to help you and especially to permit you to continue your onward journey using the next reasonable connection at no additional cost to yourself, even if the next train is in a higher price category.

That's only if you book a single ticket from A to B, which will prevent you in most cases from getting the cheapest options, as only full fare will be offered, and sometimes won't even exist.
Let's say that I want to book a ticket from Nantes to Hannover: SNCF will offer tickets that begin at a whooping 181€. But I could also book a ticket with SNCF between Nantes and Paris, that costs 30€, and a ticket with DB between Paris and Hannover, that costs 53€: total is half price, but if the Nantes-Paris train is delayed and I miss my connection, then I'll need to buy a new ticket between Paris and Hannover, because they were two separate tickets.

Ouigo Grande Vitesse is only a brand of SNCF Voyageurs, not a separate company, so it is technically a UIC member, but SNCF won't allow you to book Ouigo tickets in connection with other services: if a travel agency (that includes SNCF Connect) sells you a TGV + Ouigo trip, it's actually two separate tickets, with two separate sets of conditions of carriage.

 

[daybeers]

Wow the problems above seem very complicated and it's sad there are these silly barriers to simple train travel.

Anyway, here's the trusty Thibault with another Simply Railway review of this service:

 

[MARC Rider]

Here are some thoughts:

1. 260 miles in 4 hours, average speed ~65 mph, maximum speed 100 mph. That's pretty much faster than anything Amtrak offers, except the Northeast Regional between New York and Washington. And with cheap, conventional used equipment on conventional right of way. This is probably what we in the US should be shooting for as a first step, not full-on high-speed rail.

2. Tickets are a fixed price, not to exceed 30 euros. That's nice, no more fiddling around trying to outsmart yield management software. That's what you really need to do if you want to maximize train passengers and get cars off the road.

3. No food service, even for a 4 hour ride. Doesn't seem to scare people off, as there seems to be places to buy food at the stations.

4. For all Thibault was complaining about the sorry state of the rolling stock, as an Amtrak customer, I thought it wasn't too bad. I think that even the non-matching seatcovers were an intentional design. The seats had no recline and apparently less eat pitch than an Amfleet 1, but they looked reasonably comfortable. The overhead luggage racks looked a bit small compared to Amtrak's, but they had several off-the-floor racks throughout the coaches. By the way, the Ouigo high speed train had an interesting 3x1 seat configuration. That means that single travelers have a better shot at getting a single seat without a seatmate, and parties of 3 (like my family) can all sit together, but it also means that more passengers will get stuck with the dreaded middle seat.

5. Suburban stops are an innovation?! That's one that Amtrak has long had over the French.

In all, it looks like a good service, and maybe Amtrak should emulate some of the concepts for their corridor trains and the Northeast Regional. Maybe a business class car for people who want some more legroom, and I would think that a cafe car might do all right on a trip this long. I hope it's successful.

 

[plane2train]

I’m shocked to see that the seat covers haven’t changed in over 30 years. Even as a student, I would splurge on first class so I didn’t have to sit in those seats, which I found way too cramped for any trip over two hours. However, it isn’t clear in the video whether first class still exists. That said, it’s smart for the SNCF to offer a product that is cheaper than the TGV given its sometimes high prices.

 

[John Bredin]

I thought the video was clear that these trains don't have 1st class. He mentions that there's one class of service and that all the cars were previously 2nd-class cars.

I felt that complaining about the color scheme or decor so much was a bit over-the-top unless the seats or other fixtures are worn out, but I thought he's totally right about the inconsistency in electric socket availability. If they said the cars would be refurbished, I would think in the modern age that means a socket at every pair of seats at the very least.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

The impression I've gotten is that the Ouigo cars are essentially cast offs pressed into bargain service. A lot of European medium distance trains don't have food service (nor can I remember seeing any checked luggage anywhere, even at big stations, on recent trips) especially outside of premier routes.

 

[caravanman]

This seems to be SNCF trying to compete with other "low fare" train companies, and even low cost flights, while still offering a faster more premium service with better modern trains too.

Sort of Acela complimented by the regionals in the NE corridor, to a slight extent?

I guess youtubers have to have something to talk about, just getting on a train and getting off again is never going to grab the viewer as much as mentioning the seat covers didn't match?
It's a cheap ride, as long as you get a seat at a bargain price, why worry about the you tube nit picking?

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I guess youtubers have to have something to talk about, just getting on a train and getting off again is never going to grab the viewer as much as mentioning the seat covers didn't match?

Yeah, a lot of the Youtubers are obsessively about checking the seats, the power points, washrooms, etc, etc, although it can be interesting.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Yeah, a lot of the Youtubers are obsessively about checking the seats, the power points, washrooms, etc, etc, although it can be interesting.

That's Simply Railway’s basic checklist and very helpful, I think. Those would be the three items people would complain the most about if the seats weren’t comfortable, the power points weren’t easily available, or the bathroom was dirty.

I don’t know if other YouTube posters followed his lead or if he picked that pattern up from someone else.

I do enjoy his trip reports more for all the other parts, though —scenery, dining, sleeping car descriptions.

I liked it better when he would talk in the video, though—love that French accent!

 

[cirdan]

The impression I've gotten is that the Ouigo cars are essentially cast offs pressed into bargain service. A lot of European medium distance trains don't have food service (nor can I remember seeing any checked luggage anywhere, even at big stations, on recent trips) especially outside of premier routes.

They are Corail cars. The Corail was, when it was new, a very comfortable car in both classes. They are very spacious and tastefully designed as well as quiet and soft riding. Their self-regulating air suspension ensured a very smooth ride even on poor track. They really revolutionized train travel in France. In some ways, they were also the pinnacle of French classic train design. The TGVs are much more cramped in comparison and the newer types of TER and local train are all multiple unit trains which don't ride as smoothly.

As TGVs took over the backbone of the French system, more and more Corails became surplus and many of these were eagerly taken over by the regions and placed in TER (regional) service where they brought a huge step forward in terms of quality compared to the trains they replaced.

Today the regions are also replacing their Corails by questionable and cheap multiple units and many of the Corails have sadly already been scrapped. It is thus very welcome to see that this chapter in French rail history is not over yet and that some Corails will be us for a while yet.

So to call them cast-offs is maybe not doing them the homage they deserve. They are possibly the best rolling stock presently available anywhere in Europe.