Amtrak long distance fares 2021-2023

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That’s a great point. My mom came out and visited us last week on AA San Diego to Ohare nonstop. 38 bucks nonstop each way. Both ways at check in 24 hours before they offered a first class upgrade for 111 dollars. Long story short SAN to ORD first class for under $300 RT. Both flights were close to full.

We haven’t paid over $50 OW ORD to LAX or SAN in a couple years now. At least two of our trips would have been on Amtrak had prices at least been at 2018 levels for sleepers. Granted airfares are rising by the day but you are right Amtrak went in the exact opposite direction of the airlines in response to covid.

BoulderCO said:
I haven't been on Amtrak since before Covid, but find it interesting to compare how Amtrak and the Airlines are coping during this recovery period.

Obviously, as much as I like the train, I would never pay the kind of prices being reported here.

I'm sure there is a lot of variation among the airlines, but here is one data point that I find interesting. My wife is presently in the middle of a trip from Denver to Portland, OR for a Mother's day visit. We usually fly on United. Since it was a short trip, she decided to try their bare-bones coach service that doesn't even allow a full-sized bag to be stowed overhead. Her round trip fare was $60.

On the outbound trip on Thursday, she was surprised when they notified her the day before that she actually would be allowed to bring and stow a full-sized bag. It was still a coach seat toward the rear of the plane, but a very pleasant trip with an unexpected accommodation that put a smile on her face.

Today she downloaded her boarding pass for the return flight tomorrow. They moved her up to row 12 - either business or first class. She spent a total of $60 and yet United went out of their way to give her some unexpected perks. That is how you win and maintain customers!!

The point here is that at least some airlines are doing things to please customers. Amtrak isn't. Instead, we get HIGHER THAN NORMAL fares and no traditional dining. I am disappointed - they should and must do better.
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railiner said:
I am wondering about these so-called Amtrak "buckets"....why aren't the fares infinitely adjustable?
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I don't fully understand the details but in a conversation many moons ago when the bucket fares were being introduced, someone who was implementing the technical aspects of it explained to me that this was caused by the limitations of the Arrow system. I am afraid I don't remember the details that were then explained to me.
 
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railiner said:
I am wondering about these so-called Amtrak "buckets"....why aren't the fares infinitely adjustable?
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Amtrak's underlying reservations system (ARROW) dates from the 1970s, and is written in machine language which is very hard to upgrade or alter.

Amtrak has been trying to slowly migrate to something modern but apparently the funding for the IT project has not been consistent.
 
Amtrakfflyer said:
Exact same increase on the TE from CHI to LAX. Very curious now to see if full service dining does indeed return to the SWC. Management has made it clear in the past they don’t want to operate the SWC or TE. Perhaps Flynn has learned from Anderson’s failed tactics. While Flynn is saying the right things Amtrak’s actions aren’t backing up his words.

These increases over the long term will decimate ridership. Sure now people MAY be paying the high prices I don’t really believe that though. Telling is Amtrak isn’t even offering roomettes for sale on the second sleeper on the TE, only the bedrooms. How can that be defended?
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DEMAND IS HIgh so price is high.
 
neroden said:
If this shows anything it shows that many people are willing to pay a lot to travel in private rooms. Meaning that Amtrak, if it were operated in a for-profit fashion, would focus on acquiring more cars with private rooms ASAP!
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The demand is high, but that's partly because the supply is extremely limited. I can't fault Amtrak for trying to maximize revenue from the skeletal fleet of sleeper cars it has. But it would have a better public image -- and be useful to a lot more travelers -- if it had double the number of sleeper rooms available. That likely would mean that on some trips and at certain seasons, lower sleeper prices would become available. It might also mean that Amtrak management would care a little bit about retaining its high-revenue sleeper customers, rather than treating us like something disposable and easily replaced, as it often does now.
 
Sounds like Amtrak is replacing us cheapies with some high rollers for the time being. I’ve been paying $5:00 a gallon for diesel for awhile so I’m not surprised at the price for a roomette. if one wants to dance to the music you have to pay the piper. It is what it is.
What happened to Amsnag, Now that does upset me.
 
The Administration in Washington has changed but Amtrak management seems to be acting as though their ex CEO is still in charge. By the way, is Anderson on the Amtrak board now?
 
Amtrakfflyer said:
Then why is Amtrak blocking roomettes sales on the Eagle? One sleeper is only having its bedrooms sold, roomettes are not for sale.
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My guess would be that they are not staffing a second attendant, just using the attendant from the other car. Subsequently there is only so many rooms one attendant can take care of. Thus they are just selling most expensive rooms...
 
We support Amtrak and prefer train travel. As such we will gladly pay more for it than air travel but we must draw the line when we see bedroom fares 3x -5x that of first class air. This is the first year in about 17 that we will not be taking a LD Amtrak vacation due to prices that do not make sense. We are flying to Phoenix for $800 per ticket, R/T First Class. We just got our TSA Pre-Checks to make things easier.
If passengers can spend $6,500+ for a coast to coast trip and Amtak sells out, then I accept that BUT if the sleepers remain unsold at those price levels then its obvious that this is part of a bigger plan. From what I see in checking fares there are no more buckets but a single high fare that is cemented in place. If the plan is to turn away long time LD customers, Amtrak has succeeded. We can only hope that this changes.
 
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High prices does not a conspiracy make. Low prices were available for this summer when they first went on sale - I got low buckets for SWC when I rebooked from last year (At risk - before it was clear what the vaccine situation would be this year). Prices have gone way up. This summer is going to be a high demand travel period. Not surprised to see high prices. As for unsold rooms it has been mentioned that they will be eventually rolling out the Bid Upgrade program to sleeping cars.
 
Once Amtrak returns to daily LD service then they will once again be equipment-constrained, and it's logical to use pricing to balance supply and demand.

BUT... with current tri-weekly service they are presumably NOT nearly as equipment-constrained and they could balance supply and demand by increasing the supply (i.e. add more cars). Yet, the western LD consists continue to run short, and roomettes on the SWC are often sold out or selling at very high buckets. Amtrak clearly has no desire to capture more of the market by increasing the supply. They are either incompetent, or are deliberately undermining the LD trains. (and, if they claim that they don't yet have the personnel to staff longer trains then that falls into the incompetence category).
 
lrh442 said:
Once Amtrak returns to daily LD service then they will once again be equipment-constrained, and it's logical to use pricing to balance supply and demand.

BUT... with current tri-weekly service they are presumably NOT nearly as equipment-constrained and they could balance supply and demand by increasing the supply (i.e. add more cars). Yet, the western LD consists continue to run short, and roomettes on the SWC are often sold out or selling at very high buckets. Amtrak clearly has no desire to capture more of the market by increasing the supply. They are either incompetent, or are deliberately undermining the LD trains. (and, if they claim that they don't yet have the personnel to staff longer trains then that falls into the incompetence category).
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Or maybe they're using the tri-weekly schedule to do maintenance on the excess cars.
 
AmtrakBlue said:
Or maybe they're using the tri-weekly schedule to do maintenance on the excess cars.
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That is unlikely given the financial hole they were in until the latest round of rescue package became available. They have managed to keep ahead of regular servicing required for cars that were in service and possiblye done some imminent major service on cars that were getting close. Beyond that I doubt it very much. Even in regular times they seem to underspend on their maintenance budgets.
 
Traditional airline pricing tends to favor those who book ahead, and in today's world, who monitors fare sites like Kayak or similar, where you can get data on when to book, what the lowest fare is likely to be, and so on. Walk up coach fares on airlines were always exorbitant, generally booked by business flyers who would double and triple book, and as a result airlines routinely oversold the cabin, to account for the no-shows that resulted from this flexibility offered to the full fare payers. Soliciting for a volunteer or even bumping someone who didn't volunteer were part of the equation, although airlines hate kicking people off a plane and will generally try and manage revenue so that doesn't happen. Let me just offer from personal experience, though, that nothing is perfect, and I don't want to veer off into that discussion.
Train pricing is a whole different story, Amtrak passengers, it seems, are far more willing to book as far in advance as possible, and Amtrak does not, to my knowledge, overbook either coach or rooms. Therefore, if there is demand on a train 11 months out, there's not much reason to sell that room at a lower fare. This is true regardless of how many walk-up, full fare coach customers they might have. The fare differential is significant, far more than the fare difference between coach and business/first on a domestic flight. They've got time to wait for people to buy, and a clientele that is more stable, so the revenue management process is not the same. Amtrak isn't trying to kill the service by overpricing the sleepers, I think they are trying to forecast how many people will pay that much for the room. At best they could try and maximize the revenue by offering upgrade options, and it seems, that is already happening.
 
dlagrua said:
We support Amtrak and prefer train travel. As such we will gladly pay more for it than air travel but we must draw the line when we see bedroom fares 3x -5x that of first class air. This is the first year in about 17 that we will not be taking a LD Amtrak vacation due to prices that do not make sense. We are flying to Phoenix for $800 per ticket, R/T First Class. We just got our TSA Pre-Checks to make things easier.
If passengers can spend $6,500+ for a coast to coast trip and Amtak sells out, then I accept that BUT if the sleepers remain unsold at those price levels then its obvious that this is part of a bigger plan. From what I see in checking fares there are no more buckets but a single high fare that is cemented in place. If the plan is to turn away long time LD customers, Amtrak has succeeded. We can only hope that this changes.
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I don't accept it. Amtrak is subsidized by taxpayers and provides a public service. It should be accessible to everyone, not to 5% or less of the population. This policy is totally contrary to the Biden Administration's stated belief in 'equity'.
 
Michigan Mom said:
Traditional airline pricing tends to favor those who book ahead, and in today's world, who monitors fare sites like Kayak or similar, where you can get data on when to book, what the lowest fare is likely to be, and so on. Walk up coach fares on airlines were always exorbitant, generally booked by business flyers who would double and triple book, and as a result airlines routinely oversold the cabin, to account for the no-shows that resulted from this flexibility offered to the full fare payers. Soliciting for a volunteer or even bumping someone who didn't volunteer were part of the equation, although airlines hate kicking people off a plane and will generally try and manage revenue so that doesn't happen. Let me just offer from personal experience, though, that nothing is perfect, and I don't want to veer off into that discussion.
Train pricing is a whole different story, Amtrak passengers, it seems, are far more willing to book as far in advance as possible, and Amtrak does not, to my knowledge, overbook either coach or rooms. Therefore, if there is demand on a train 11 months out, there's not much reason to sell that room at a lower fare. This is true regardless of how many walk-up, full fare coach customers they might have. The fare differential is significant, far more than the fare difference between coach and business/first on a domestic flight. They've got time to wait for people to buy, and a clientele that is more stable, so the revenue management process is not the same. Amtrak isn't trying to kill the service by overpricing the sleepers, I think they are trying to forecast how many people will pay that much for the room. At best they could try and maximize the revenue by offering upgrade options, and it seems, that is already happening.
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As I said, this is a discriminatory policy that contradicts the Biden Administration's policy of 'equity' and access to everyone, not just the elite.
 
Ferroequinologist said:
I don't accept it. Amtrak is subsidized by taxpayers and provides a public service. It should be accessible to everyone, not to 5% or less of the population. This policy is totally contrary to the Biden Administration's stated belief in 'equity'.
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Then tell Congress to give Amtrak more money - like equal to what they give the highways and air service.
 
Ferroequinologist said:
I don't accept it. Amtrak is subsidized by taxpayers and provides a public service. It should be accessible to everyone, not to 5% or less of the population. This policy is totally contrary to the Biden Administration's stated belief in 'equity'.
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Thanks for posting this. Whether this "public service" angle fits one's ideology or not (it fits mine), in the long run taxpayer resistance to funding Amtrak will surely grow if the vast majority of taxpayers can't afford Amtrak services.

A related problem with very high pricing: Prospective passengers trying to book a trip will see costs so out of line with what they can afford, that they'll decide Amtrak's out of reach for them, and never come back to book future travel if/when the fares drop. High pricing, even when some tickets do sell, might be pennywise and pound foolish.
 

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