Some Detroit Nostalgia

[NS VIA Fan]

From the archives.....Some Detroit nostalgia from 40 years ago:

'Tomorrows Train Today'.....The Turboliner:

And new a new service.....New York - Detroit:

 

[Bob Dylan]

"Those were the days my friend, I thought they'd never end.."

I notice the running times weren't that much different than today's Wolverines, and for the times, fares were comparable.

Unfortunately we'll never see this level of service again,( including service to Michigan Central)especially the "shortcut" across Canada!

As for the Turboliners, even though they were one of Amtrak's more outrageous follies, it was neat to see them!

 

[SurebetVA]

This is neat, they were still stopping at the Michigan Central Station in those days.

 

[SarahZ]

That's really cool.

My dad sometimes tells me stories about traveling in and out of Michigan Central Station while he was in the Army (1962-1966). He said the trains didn't have A/C back then, but it was still a lot of fun when the soldiers were all packed together in one coach car. (I can only imagine...)

 

[railiner]

Love looking at nostalgia....thanks so much for posting!

Some details I noticed....

The Empire State Express seemed to operate "closed doors" across the Canada Southern. Even though the stations were listed, no stops were indicated. IIRC, they did stop at customs stations for customs inspectors to board and detrain, and they also stopped at the St. Thomas division point to change crews.

Later on, Amtrak called that train The Niagara Rainbow, which changed routings later on to operate via Niagara Falls instead of Fort Erie.

Another detail is the connecting train to Toronto....instead of the current CN routing of the Maple Leaf, it ran over the Penn Central, the Toronto, Hamilton, and Buffalo, and the Canadian Pacific to reach Toronto.

 

[neroden]

Canada Southern needs to be reinstalled, but it won't happen until we have sane government in the US, and I've been waiting for that since the Carter administration ended.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

The Empire State Express seemed to operate "closed doors" across the Canada Southern. Even though the stations were listed, no stops were indicated. IIRC, they did stop at customs stations for customs inspectors to board and detrain, and they also stopped at the St. Thomas division point to change crews.

The reference note for the triangle next to the station indicated service would commence at a time to be announced and it did shortly after. Amtrak was even authorized to carry passengers between two Canadian stations……not just passengers going to or from the US.

 

[railiner]

Canada Southern needs to be reinstalled, but it won't happen until we have sane government in the US, and I've been waiting for that since the Carter administration ended.

You would need some participation from the Canadian government as well.....The Canada Southern route was entirely within Canada (except for possibly bridge and/or tunnel to US, not sure....) And that is not more likely to happen, than it is here.....

 

[railiner]

The Empire State Express seemed to operate "closed doors" across the Canada Southern. Even though the stations were listed, no stops were indicated. IIRC, they did stop at customs stations for customs inspectors to board and detrain, and they also stopped at the St. Thomas division point to change crews.

The reference note for the triangle next to the station indicated service would commence at a time to be announced and it did shortly after. Amtrak was even authorized to carry passengers between two Canadian stations……not just passengers going to or from the US.

Thanks for clearing that up....I thought that they did handle passenger's at the intermediate stops, but couldn't remember for sure....

As for Amtrak being 'allowed' to carry within Canada.....the railroads never had the type of traffic restrictions that airlines and buslines had, as railroads usually had their own route, and could carry anywhere along it without any traffic restrictions. So, since VIA did not serve the Canada Southern route, Amtrak would be allowed to carry locally. And since Amtrak did not serve the former CP route across Maine, VIA could carry locally on its Atlantic Limited.

About the only exceptions are places like St. Lambert and Montreal, or New Westminster and Vancouver, where Amtrak cannot carry solely within Canada.

Indeed, if VIA would ever decide to drop out of running the Maple Leaf between Niagara Falls, Ont. and Toronto, there would be no reason why Amtrak could not continue it, and carry locally within Ontario as well....

 

[white rabbitt]

jim in the 70's i took a train going to buffalo

but i was going to Toronto so i got off in windsor

took a cab to the other train station then caught a train to toronto

 

[NS VIA Fan]

As for Amtrak being 'allowed' to carry within Canada.....the railroads never had the type of traffic restrictions that airlines and buslines had, as railroads usually had their own route, and could carry anywhere along it without any traffic restrictions....

Back in 1974 when the Empire State Express started running through Canada, the Transport Commission refused to allow Amtrak to carry passengers wholly in Canada. The trains would then have become eligible for loses under a funding formula the Government had with the passenger railways (VIA did not exist then) But after pressure from the local MP’s who’s ridings the trains passed through, the Government relented and Amtrak started stopping along the Canada Southern.

This is similar to what happened to the Penn Central 'Ghost' passenger trains on the same route across southern Ontario in the last few months leading up to Amtrak.

Penn Central had applied to the ICC and Canadian Transport Commission to discontinue the trains. The ICC refused but the CTC allowed the discontinuance so Penn Central just ran them non-stop across Canada other than for Customs and crew changes.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Learned something new. I though Amtrak's use of the TurboLiners were only in NY.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Learned something new. I though Amtrak's use of the TurboLiners were only in NY.

Also St. Louis and Milwaukee.

 

[railiner]

And don't forget "Harley's Hornet", the derisively nicknamed Potomac Turbo Train (the United Aircraft type), aka "the train to nowhere" that ran the 'experimental route' between Washington and Parkersburg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginian_(Amtrak_train)

 

[railiner]

As for Amtrak being 'allowed' to carry within Canada.....the railroads never had the type of traffic restrictions that airlines and buslines had, as railroads usually had their own route, and could carry anywhere along it without any traffic restrictions....

Back in 1974 when the Empire State Express started running through Canada, the Transport Commission refused to allow Amtrak to carry passengers wholly in Canada. The trains would then have become eligible for loses under a funding formula the Government had with the passenger railways (VIA did not exist then) But after pressure from the local MP’s who’s ridings the trains passed through, the Government relented and Amtrak started stopping along the Canada Southern.

This is similar to what happened to the Penn Central 'Ghost' passenger trains on the same route across southern Ontario in the last few months leading up to Amtrak.

Penn Central had applied to the ICC and Canadian Transport Commission to discontinue the trains. The ICC refused but the CTC allowed the discontinuance so Penn Central just ran them non-stop across Canada other than for Customs and crew changes.

Great explanation. Thanks for those interesting details....

 

[rrdude]

And don't forget "Harley's Hornet", the derisively nicknamed Potomac Turbo Train (the United Aircraft type), aka "the train to nowhere" that ran the 'experimental route' between Washington and Parkersburg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginian_(Amtrak_train)

I'd have liked to sit in the upper level of the UA turbos in scenic Virginia. Can you imagine that on 50-51 thru the New River Gorge!

 

[MARC Rider]

And don't forget "Harley's Hornet", the derisively nicknamed Potomac Turbo Train (the United Aircraft type), aka "the train to nowhere" that ran the 'experimental route' between Washington and Parkersburg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginian_(Amtrak_train)

I'd have liked to sit in the upper level of the UA turbos in scenic Virginia. Can you imagine that on 50-51 thru the New River Gorge!

Isn't the New River Gorge in West Virginia?

 

[railiner]

And don't forget "Harley's Hornet", the derisively nicknamed Potomac Turbo Train (the United Aircraft type), aka "the train to nowhere" that ran the 'experimental route' between Washington and Parkersburg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginian_(Amtrak_train)

I'd have liked to sit in the upper level of the UA turbos in scenic Virginia. Can you imagine that on 50-51 thru the New River Gorge!

Isn't the New River Gorge in West Virginia?

Well....at one time it was Virginia...(prior to the Civil War)..

And yes, I can imagine it...I rode the old Vista-Dome version of Train 51.

And I did ride the UA Turbo Train on the NH between GCT and Back "Bay. Also on the CN between Montreal and Toronto.

The UA Turbo Train had the ultimate "railfan's seat"...you could sit in the dome directly behind the glassed in engineer's cab, affording a forward view as well as seeing the train operated...

 

[Blackshirt Husker]

This is an incredible find--just wanted to say thanks for posting them.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

The UA Turbo Train had the ultimate "railfan's seat"...you could sit in the dome directly behind the glassed in engineer's cab, affording a forward view as well as seeing the train operated...

Riding the Turbo from Boston to New York:

 

[railiner]

Great shots....that was from the 'fireman's' side...his function was to press a button to turn on the train heating system, as well as acknowledge signals the engineer called out...tough job, but somebody's got to do it.....at least back then....

I would like to see a shot of that ramp leading down from the dome, passing between the engineer's and fireman's cabs, to the clamshell doors....sort of like a 'transition car'...