Southwest Chief Re-Route?

[Guest]

Where did this date (12-31-16) come from? It has been published and acknowledge by Amtrak that the current contract ends midnight 12-31-15. or (1-1-16 at 12 am)

 

[VentureForth]

I asked Mark Murphy (Sr. VP Amtrak LD routes) about coming through Amarillo and he indicated that it would never happen.

Did he say why? That's a curious "never". What if the current route became impassable? Would Amtrak throw out the whole route just to avoid Wichita/OKC/Amarillo?

See: Sunset Limited

 

[tomfuller]

A couple of reasons I can think of - Amtrak would have to hire engineers qualified to run the route through Amarillo who are probably BNSF engineers now. Is there a suitable platform that Amtrak can use in Amarillo? While we are talking about population, Both Denver (600000) and ABQ (545000) have more than twice the population of Amarillo.

Amtrak will not abandon the Raton route until it is forced to do so either by contract expiration or the route becoming impassable with no money to fix it

I would love it if Mark and Warren Buffet sat down for a face to face meeting about this and several other things that concern Amtrak. Maybe Warren could buy Amtrak and close it down within a year because it lost money.

 

[printman2000]

A couple of reasons I can think of - Amtrak would have to hire engineers qualified to run the route through Amarillo who are probably BNSF engineers now. Is there a suitable platform that Amtrak can use in Amarillo? While we are talking about population, Both Denver (600000) and ABQ (545000) have more than twice the population of Amarillo.

Amtrak will not abandon the Raton route until it is forced to do so either by contract expiration or the route becoming impassable with no money to fix it

I would love it if Mark and Warren Buffet sat down for a face to face meeting about this and several other things that concern Amtrak. Maybe Warren could buy Amtrak and close it down within a year because it lost money.

Pretty sure the current Amtrak engineers can get certified on the new route. No need to hire new ones.

Amarillo does not have a proper platform but has shown they are willing to invest in Amtrak service.

Also, doubt Albuquerque would lose service with a reroute. Been discussed here many times.

 

[Ryan]

I asked Mark Murphy (Sr. VP Amtrak LD routes) about coming through Amarillo and he indicated that it would never happen.

Did he say why? That's a curious "never". What if the current route became impassable? Would Amtrak throw out the whole route just to avoid Wichita/OKC/Amarillo?

See: Sunset Limited

Sunset Limited didn't have an alternative routing offered to it on which operations could begin immediately.

 

[Guest]

But what if Amtrak has plans to increase ridership by changing the consist to something else. Can you see AutoTrain? What if all this fuss is just a charade to keep peoples minds busy. Might they want to call it something else? Therefore the end of " super Chief"!

 

[Ryan]

Those appear to all be English words, but they're arraigned in a way that makes it impossible to decipher a coherent meaning.

 

[ABQFloridian]

That was almost haiku-like.

 

[jis]

It is more like put tinfoil hat on head and then type away whatever comes in

 

[Guest]

Correct, Amarillo is on alternate route and by contract that would mean without any hesitation the" Chief" would automatically be diverted thru Amarillo as long as current contract is in play and for what ever reason the current route is impassable.

 

[neroden]

I asked Mark Murphy (Sr. VP Amtrak LD routes) about coming through Amarillo and he indicated that it would never happen.

Well, that either means "won't happen until he's fired," or more likely, "won't happen until his boss tells him to make it happen". In other words, it means nothing at all in the long term. Facts on the ground have a way of creeping up on such statements.

However, it seems quite likely that BNSF has reversed its previous policy, and decided to maintain the Raton line forever, which would preserve the route.

 

[DryCreek]

Those appear to all be English words, but they're arraigned in a way that makes it impossible to decipher a coherent meaning.

Yes, but the court is still out on determining intent.

 

[DryCreek]

A couple of reasons I can think of - Amtrak would have to hire engineers qualified to run the route through Amarillo who are probably BNSF engineers now. Is there a suitable platform that Amtrak can use in Amarillo? While we are talking about population, Both Denver (600000) and ABQ (545000) have more than twice the population of Amarillo.

Amtrak will not abandon the Raton route until it is forced to do so either by contract expiration or the route becoming impassable with no money to fix it

I would love it if Mark and Warren Buffet sat down for a face to face meeting about this and several other things that concern Amtrak. Maybe Warren could buy Amtrak and close it down within a year because it lost money.

Pretty sure the current Amtrak engineers can get certified on the new route. No need to hire new ones.

Amarillo does not have a proper platform but has shown they are willing to invest in Amtrak service.

Also, doubt Albuquerque would lose service with a reroute. Been discussed here many times.

After looking here: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2085352,-101.8261397,135m/data=!3m1!1e3

It seems that while there is no platform currently, it sure wouldn't take long to pour a concrete pad. A long one too. That should help prevent multiple spots for a standard consist. In fact, looking from street view, the depot is in pretty good shape on the exterior. I don't know about the location though. While it is right across the street from the Amarillo Civic Center, I didn't see many nearby options for lodging or dining. The area doesn't look to be in decline, but it could sure use some more attractions to draw folks into the area. maybe if they also incorporated a museum and upscale dining like in Tuscon it could be a draw.

 

[VentureForth]

That was almost haiku-like.

Could Robert Frost it:

Two routes diverged in a yellow dessert

And sorry I could not travel both

But be one train, long I sat

Until some money promised growth...

 

[BNSFboy]

A couple of reasons I can think of - Amtrak would have to hire engineers qualified to run the route through Amarillo who are probably BNSF engineers now. Is there a suitable platform that Amtrak can use in Amarillo? While we are talking about population, Both Denver (600000) and ABQ (545000) have more than twice the population of Amarillo.

Amtrak will not abandon the Raton route until it is forced to do so either by contract expiration or the route becoming impassable with no money to fix it

I would love it if Mark and Warren Buffet sat down for a face to face meeting about this and several other things that concern Amtrak. Maybe Warren could buy Amtrak and close it down within a year because it lost money.

Pretty sure the current Amtrak engineers can get certified on the new route. No need to hire new ones.

Amarillo does not have a proper platform but has shown they are willing to invest in Amtrak service.

Also, doubt Albuquerque would lose service with a reroute. Been discussed here many times.

After looking here: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2085352,-101.8261397,135m/data=!3m1!1e3

It seems that while there is no platform currently, it sure wouldn't take long to pour a concrete pad. A long one too. That should help prevent multiple spots for a standard consist. In fact, looking from street view, the depot is in pretty good shape on the exterior. I don't know about the location though. While it is right across the street from the Amarillo Civic Center, I didn't see many nearby options for lodging or dining. The area doesn't look to be in decline, but it could sure use some more attractions to draw folks into the area. maybe if they also incorporated a museum and upscale dining like in Tuscon it could be a draw.

They are planning to build a hotel on the other side of the Amarillo Civic Center from the station. The lower level would be able to house restaurants and shops. Still would be a little bit of a walk though. http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2015-02-25/downtown-hotel-design-plans-revealed

 

[DryCreek]

They are planning to build a hotel on the other side of the Amarillo Civic Center from the station. The lower level would be able to house restaurants and shops. Still would be a little bit of a walk though. http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2015-02-25/downtown-hotel-design-plans-revealed

A quote from the linked article: "Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex weather prevented the Merriman team from attending the meeting as planned Wednesday. So Anderson and team leader Jennifer Picquet-Reyes described the plans in a presentation via the Internet and speakerphone."

Hmm. I would bet that a train could have gotten them there!

 

[Guest]

You might just want to take a visit and see for yourself (google doesn't tell all}Take you pocket book with you, cause you will want to invest.

 

[Chas]

The BNSF just needs to put one of these monsters on the job in western Kansas. (Link is YouTube video.)

 

[DryCreek]

You might just want to take a visit and see for yourself (google doesn't tell all}Take you pocket book with you, cause you will want to invest.

Oh, I am quite familiar with Amarillo. We always run up there when we haul our camper to Palo Duro Canyon State Park. I've even made it a point visit the Big Tex steakhouse one - although I knew better than to accept their challenge!

 

[Palmetto]

The BNSF just needs to put one of these monsters on the job in western Kansas. (Link is YouTube video.)

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Amtrak has one of those on the NEC.

 

[jis]

The BNSF just needs to put one of these monsters on the job in western Kansas. (Link is YouTube video.)

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Amtrak has one of those on the NEC.

Yes Amtrak has at least one. It has also been used by NJTransit from time to time. It is fun to watch.

 

[CHamilton]

We heard about this at the NARP meeting. Still not nailed down, but sounding much more positive. And the Amtrak reps at the meeting said that the train will operate along the current route beyond the December 2015 deadline.

From the Las Vegas (NM) Optic via the Southwest Chief Coalition on Facebook

Gov pledges $1M for tracks
State wants to keep Southwest Chief
By Mercy Lopez
Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 4:10 pm (Updated: June 7, 4:11 pm)

Gov. Susana Martinez is pledging $1 million to improve part of the track utilized by the Southwest Chief, a state Department of Transportation official informed Mayor Alfonso Ortiz on Thursday.

The future of the Southwest Chief had been in limbo for more than two years with Amtrak saying it might have to change the route due to costly maintenance and upgrades to the tracks that would be needed in order to keep the current route, which includes stops in Raton, Las Vegas and Lamy. The company was asking Colorado, Kansas and New Mexico to pitch in millions of dollars for the track upgrades in order to save the existing route. Colorado and Kansas moved aggressively last year to allocate money for repairs on their portions of the Southwest Chief tracks. They have also been working to secure a federal grant to pay for the needed repairs. In March an Amtrak spokesman said the company planned to stay with the current route.

During a brief meeting with Las Vegas Mayor Alfonso Ortiz on Thursday afternoon, New Mexico Department of Transportation Deputy Secretary Loren Hatch informed the mayor that Gov. Martinez has committed $1 million to improve a part of the track utilized by the Southwest Chief in New Mexico....

He added that the funding would be contingent on a TIGER VII grant being awarded by the U.S. Department of Transportation. Several communities and states have come together to seek the grant funding, including the City of La Junta, Colo....

Ortiz said several municipalities including Raton and Las Vegas have each agreed to contribute $12,500 as a match for the grant and another $3,000 to pay for the grant writer. He said that support is needed from local municipalities along the route in order to secure the grant....

Ortiz, Hatch and Sharpless said they are optimistic about the Tiger VII grant....

Ortiz said a million dollar state investment and the roughly $100,000 from municipalities clearly shows that New Mexico is in full support of the grant and the need to keep the current route.

 

[neroden]

Given that TIGER VII is oversubscribed by a factor of, if I remember correctly, *19*, I'd frankly consider it an embarassment if this got the TIGER grant. There are much more worthy projects in the application list.

 

[abcnews]

I think the Southwest Chief is worthy of a transportation grant. The route is quite historic and the railroad played a major role in the region.

Also - Chicago to LA is a major Amtrak route. Based on population, Los Angeles is one of the largest regions in the US. Maybe the largest.

And the funding is not to build a new route or a new station, but it's to simply help maintain an already existing line with a long history of passenger service.

 

[neroden]

The Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery, or TIGER Discretionary Grant program, provides a unique opportunity for the DOT to invest in road, rail, transit and port projects that promise to achieve national objectives. Since 2009, Congress has dedicated more than $4.1 billion for six rounds of TIGER to fund projects that have a significant impact on the Nation, a region or a metropolitan area.

In each round of TIGER, DOT receives hundreds of applications to build and repair critical pieces of our freight and passenger transportation networks. The TIGER program enables DOT to examine these projects on their merits to help ensure that taxpayers are getting the highest value for every dollar invested through TIGER Discretionary Grants. Applicants must detail the benefits their project would deliver for five long-term outcomes: safety, economic competitiveness, state of good repair, quality of life and environmental sustainability. DOT also evaluates projects on innovation, partnerships, project readiness, benefit cost analysis, and cost share.

I suppose this qualifies as "state of good repair" and "has a significant impact on a region". However, there is $500 million available, and there are *950 pre-applications* for a total of *$14,500* million, which is *29 times* the amount of money available.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/federal_legislation_regulation/news/Rail-project-funding-TIGER-VII-preapps-top-14-billion-Sen-Carper-cosponsors-RRIF-reform-bill--44647

Wait five years and if BNSF decides to stop maintaining the tracks again, we're back to square one.

There are bound to be better applications in the list of 950. Much better. Heck, there are better *passenger rail projects in New Mexico*, including the PTC installation for RailRunner. The unwillingness of New Mexico to spend its own money is not a good reason to bump this one up the list.