Starlate Bashing
- Thread starter tp49
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
- Status
Well one reason that it's getting media attention is the fact that rail advocacy groups are asking the governors of the three states served by the CS to bring pressure on UP, as well as the FRA to fix the problem.
RailFanNebraska
Service Attendant
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Messages
- 120
I think the article puts too much of the blame on amtrak. Obviously Union Pacific is not holding up their end of the deal, i would encourage letters to the editor about this.
frj1983
OBS Chief
As bad PR continues to pile up on UP,
Does anyone here think they will respond in any way except to say:
"we've got freight to move and who care about Amtrak?" Or is it possible
that they might begin to feel a little bit of a backlash for this attitude?
Stay tuned....
Does anyone here think they will respond in any way except to say:
"we've got freight to move and who care about Amtrak?" Or is it possible
that they might begin to feel a little bit of a backlash for this attitude?
Stay tuned....
Save Our Trains Michigan
Conductor
Off the UTU web site
Coast Starlight losing its luster
SACRAMENTO -- Alma Jones thought the solution to her fear of flying was the Coast Starlight, a roomy, comfortable passenger train that boasts breathtaking mountain and coastal views as well as fine dining, according to this report by Kimberly Geiger published by the San Francisco Chronicle.
After spending a month in Seattle visiting her daughter and new grandson, Jones booked a seat home to Los Angeles on the train. Amtrak said she would arrive in Los Angeles at 9 p.m. Thursday.
But when Thursday night came and the Coast Starlight had yet to reach San Jose, Jones began to regret her decision. As she watched the sun set on her second night in the train, Jones said the Coast Starlight had cured her of her fears.
"Never again in my life will I get on another train," said Jones, who arrived in Los Angeles at 7:30 a.m. Friday. "Next time, I'm gonna cover my eyes and get on an airplane."
Jones was among many disgruntled passengers on the Coast Starlight, a train that connects Seattle and Los Angeles along a scenic coastal and mountain route. Passenger rail advocates are responding to complaints by mounting a grassroots campaign to pressure West Coast governors to save the troubled train before riders abandon it altogether.
Once one of the most popular train lines in the world, the Coast Starlight is in jeopardy because it consistently runs five to 15 hours late due to neglect by Amtrak and the Union Pacific Railroad, said Gerald Cauthen, president of the Train Riders Association of California.
He said only die-hard passenger train enthusiasts who care more about the railroad experience and breathtaking views than when they arrive at their destination are happy to ride the Starlight, which critics have dubbed the "Star-late." Still, passenger train advocates say the rails offer an affordable alternative to high gas prices or airline tickets. (A one-way train fare from Sacramento to Los Angeles is $59, while an airline flight costs $127.)
Amtrak spokeswoman Vernae Graham doesn't deny that trains are running far behind schedule.
"The Coast Starlight has dismal, disastrous on-time performance," Graham said. "The train that once had one of the best on-time records in the country now has one of the worst" because of increased freight traffic and disrepair of the track.
Ridership on the Starlight decreased 26 percent between 1999 and 2005, according to Amtrak. And the Coast Starlight has delivered only 2 percent of its passengers to their destinations on time since October of last year.
A Train Riders Association of California observer who recorded the train's arrival times in Paso Robles said the train has been running five to 11 hours late 27 out of 34 days since June.
The train that departed Seattle on Wednesday morning was nearly empty when it reached Sacramento, and the few passengers it had were promising never to return. Joann Vincent had taken the train from Seattle to visit her family along the California coast but decided she'd had enough of what she called "the train from hell," cutting her trip short in San Jose.
Ariel Mentez, who boarded the train in Klamath Falls, Ore., said he thought he was taking a luxurious train trip, but lost patience once he realized he wouldn't be able to make it to work on time Friday morning. The train delivered Mentez to San Jose three hours after the workday had ended.
While Mentez said his experience on the train was his first and last, a seasoned Coast Starlight passenger who declined to give her name frantically researched alternatives in an attempt to get to her brother-in-law's 9 a.m. Friday funeral. She said she hadn't worried about making the funeral, since the train was scheduled to arrive in Los Angeles on Thursday night. She was forced to cut the trip short at Oxnard (Ventura County) early Friday morning, hoping a bus could get her to the funeral on time.
Union Pacific, the railroad that owns the stretch of track between Portland and Sacramento where most delays occur, says delays are the result of congestion and maintenance in various problem areas of the track.
Spokesman James Barnes acknowledges that increased Union Pacific freight traffic along the route is the cause of congestion but said Union Pacific is just responding to unprecedented demand for freight transportation of commodities from overseas. Couple that with maintenance the railroad is performing in some problematic spots, and the Coast Starlight is forced to spend hours sitting idle along the tracks in Oregon and Northern California.
"This, unfortunately, is not going to be a quick fix," said Barnes. "What we're confident about is that the long-term benefits that come from repairing the track will outweigh the short-term inconveniences."
But Alan Miller, also with the Train Riders Association of California, said Union Pacific is failing to uphold an agreement with Amtrak and the federal government to give Amtrak trains priority on the track. This agreement, part of the 1970s negotiations that allowed Union Pacific to discontinue its passenger rail service, requires Union Pacific to give Amtrak trains the right of way.
Because right of way is determined by Union Pacific dispatchers in Omaha, Neb., advocacy groups say there is no way to be sure that Union Pacific actually is giving Amtrak priority over freight.
Passengers who rode the train late last week reported seeing so many freight trains pass them by, they thought the freights had the automatic right of way.
"I shoulda hopped a freight car a long time ago -- I would have gotten there a lot faster," said Mentez. "Apparently we're low priority."
But Barnes insists that Union Pacific is upholding its end of the agreement. "We're in compliance with the law regarding how we dispatch our trains," he said.
Some passenger train advocates are calling on Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Oregon Gov. Ted Kulongoski and Washington Gov. Christine Gregoire to join forces to pressure Amtrak, Union Pacific and the federal government to repair the problem.
A spokesman for Schwarzenegger said the governor doesn't have jurisdiction over the Coast Starlight's problems because it is not a state-operated train. Instead, he said, "The governor concentrates his efforts on areas where he has jurisdiction, like improving the intercity rail system."
The Federal Railroad Administration says the solution to the Coast Starlight's problems lies with the Bush administration's proposed Passenger Rail Investment Reform Act, which would allow the state to receive 50/50 matching of funds from the federal government for its investment in rail transportation. Railroad Administration spokesman Steve Kulm said the proposed legislation "encourages states to work together to develop the transportation needs of their citizens."
Under the proposed legislation, Washington, Oregon and California could make an interstate compact to take over operation of the Coast Starlight. Such a compact would make the Coast Starlight a state-sponsored train, eligible for the fund matching offered in the Bush plan. Schwarzenegger has had no comment on that proposal.
Miller says his group and its Washington and Oregon counterparts are aware that the governors, short of taking over control of the train, have limited power over its delays. He said delays can be resolved without turning the Coast Starlight into a state-sponsored train. Despite jurisdiction limitations, the train riders association says the governor should use his political power to defend what it considers an issue of pride for the West Coast.
"They can say all they want that it's not a state issue, but it's a West Coast issue," said Miller. "When tourists are delayed like this, it doesn't reflect well on the state. The governor should take a stand on this."
Passengers on the Coast Starlight late last week confirmed Miller's fears. Dennis Dorty of Grass Valley (Nevada County) was traveling to San Diego for a wedding but almost missed the 1 p.m. Friday rehearsal because of the delays. "It's like they don't care about your time," he said. "You buy the ticket, they don't tell you anything about the delays, and then you're stuck on a train -- it's rude."
(The preceding report by Kimberly Geiger was published by the San Francisco Chronicle on Tuesday, Aug. 8, 2006.)
August 9, 2006
Coast Starlight losing its luster
SACRAMENTO -- Alma Jones thought the solution to her fear of flying was the Coast Starlight, a roomy, comfortable passenger train that boasts breathtaking mountain and coastal views as well as fine dining, according to this report by Kimberly Geiger published by the San Francisco Chronicle.
After spending a month in Seattle visiting her daughter and new grandson, Jones booked a seat home to Los Angeles on the train. Amtrak said she would arrive in Los Angeles at 9 p.m. Thursday.
But when Thursday night came and the Coast Starlight had yet to reach San Jose, Jones began to regret her decision. As she watched the sun set on her second night in the train, Jones said the Coast Starlight had cured her of her fears.
"Never again in my life will I get on another train," said Jones, who arrived in Los Angeles at 7:30 a.m. Friday. "Next time, I'm gonna cover my eyes and get on an airplane."
Jones was among many disgruntled passengers on the Coast Starlight, a train that connects Seattle and Los Angeles along a scenic coastal and mountain route. Passenger rail advocates are responding to complaints by mounting a grassroots campaign to pressure West Coast governors to save the troubled train before riders abandon it altogether.
Once one of the most popular train lines in the world, the Coast Starlight is in jeopardy because it consistently runs five to 15 hours late due to neglect by Amtrak and the Union Pacific Railroad, said Gerald Cauthen, president of the Train Riders Association of California.
He said only die-hard passenger train enthusiasts who care more about the railroad experience and breathtaking views than when they arrive at their destination are happy to ride the Starlight, which critics have dubbed the "Star-late." Still, passenger train advocates say the rails offer an affordable alternative to high gas prices or airline tickets. (A one-way train fare from Sacramento to Los Angeles is $59, while an airline flight costs $127.)
Amtrak spokeswoman Vernae Graham doesn't deny that trains are running far behind schedule.
"The Coast Starlight has dismal, disastrous on-time performance," Graham said. "The train that once had one of the best on-time records in the country now has one of the worst" because of increased freight traffic and disrepair of the track.
Ridership on the Starlight decreased 26 percent between 1999 and 2005, according to Amtrak. And the Coast Starlight has delivered only 2 percent of its passengers to their destinations on time since October of last year.
A Train Riders Association of California observer who recorded the train's arrival times in Paso Robles said the train has been running five to 11 hours late 27 out of 34 days since June.
The train that departed Seattle on Wednesday morning was nearly empty when it reached Sacramento, and the few passengers it had were promising never to return. Joann Vincent had taken the train from Seattle to visit her family along the California coast but decided she'd had enough of what she called "the train from hell," cutting her trip short in San Jose.
Ariel Mentez, who boarded the train in Klamath Falls, Ore., said he thought he was taking a luxurious train trip, but lost patience once he realized he wouldn't be able to make it to work on time Friday morning. The train delivered Mentez to San Jose three hours after the workday had ended.
While Mentez said his experience on the train was his first and last, a seasoned Coast Starlight passenger who declined to give her name frantically researched alternatives in an attempt to get to her brother-in-law's 9 a.m. Friday funeral. She said she hadn't worried about making the funeral, since the train was scheduled to arrive in Los Angeles on Thursday night. She was forced to cut the trip short at Oxnard (Ventura County) early Friday morning, hoping a bus could get her to the funeral on time.
Union Pacific, the railroad that owns the stretch of track between Portland and Sacramento where most delays occur, says delays are the result of congestion and maintenance in various problem areas of the track.
Spokesman James Barnes acknowledges that increased Union Pacific freight traffic along the route is the cause of congestion but said Union Pacific is just responding to unprecedented demand for freight transportation of commodities from overseas. Couple that with maintenance the railroad is performing in some problematic spots, and the Coast Starlight is forced to spend hours sitting idle along the tracks in Oregon and Northern California.
"This, unfortunately, is not going to be a quick fix," said Barnes. "What we're confident about is that the long-term benefits that come from repairing the track will outweigh the short-term inconveniences."
But Alan Miller, also with the Train Riders Association of California, said Union Pacific is failing to uphold an agreement with Amtrak and the federal government to give Amtrak trains priority on the track. This agreement, part of the 1970s negotiations that allowed Union Pacific to discontinue its passenger rail service, requires Union Pacific to give Amtrak trains the right of way.
Because right of way is determined by Union Pacific dispatchers in Omaha, Neb., advocacy groups say there is no way to be sure that Union Pacific actually is giving Amtrak priority over freight.
Passengers who rode the train late last week reported seeing so many freight trains pass them by, they thought the freights had the automatic right of way.
"I shoulda hopped a freight car a long time ago -- I would have gotten there a lot faster," said Mentez. "Apparently we're low priority."
But Barnes insists that Union Pacific is upholding its end of the agreement. "We're in compliance with the law regarding how we dispatch our trains," he said.
Some passenger train advocates are calling on Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Oregon Gov. Ted Kulongoski and Washington Gov. Christine Gregoire to join forces to pressure Amtrak, Union Pacific and the federal government to repair the problem.
A spokesman for Schwarzenegger said the governor doesn't have jurisdiction over the Coast Starlight's problems because it is not a state-operated train. Instead, he said, "The governor concentrates his efforts on areas where he has jurisdiction, like improving the intercity rail system."
The Federal Railroad Administration says the solution to the Coast Starlight's problems lies with the Bush administration's proposed Passenger Rail Investment Reform Act, which would allow the state to receive 50/50 matching of funds from the federal government for its investment in rail transportation. Railroad Administration spokesman Steve Kulm said the proposed legislation "encourages states to work together to develop the transportation needs of their citizens."
Under the proposed legislation, Washington, Oregon and California could make an interstate compact to take over operation of the Coast Starlight. Such a compact would make the Coast Starlight a state-sponsored train, eligible for the fund matching offered in the Bush plan. Schwarzenegger has had no comment on that proposal.
Miller says his group and its Washington and Oregon counterparts are aware that the governors, short of taking over control of the train, have limited power over its delays. He said delays can be resolved without turning the Coast Starlight into a state-sponsored train. Despite jurisdiction limitations, the train riders association says the governor should use his political power to defend what it considers an issue of pride for the West Coast.
"They can say all they want that it's not a state issue, but it's a West Coast issue," said Miller. "When tourists are delayed like this, it doesn't reflect well on the state. The governor should take a stand on this."
Passengers on the Coast Starlight late last week confirmed Miller's fears. Dennis Dorty of Grass Valley (Nevada County) was traveling to San Diego for a wedding but almost missed the 1 p.m. Friday rehearsal because of the delays. "It's like they don't care about your time," he said. "You buy the ticket, they don't tell you anything about the delays, and then you're stuck on a train -- it's rude."
(The preceding report by Kimberly Geiger was published by the San Francisco Chronicle on Tuesday, Aug. 8, 2006.)
August 9, 2006
DaveKCMO
Service Attendant
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2006
- Messages
- 217
the article mentions "i received no warning", yet this message has been on the amtrak site for some time. it shows when you attempt a reservation for that route:
it was good to see a break-down of the trouble spots. i'm taking this route in january, so hopefully the maintenance will be complete?
If the maintenance is complete, then the freights that will pass your train as it sits on the siding will be moving faster than they do now.
DaveKCMO
Service Attendant
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2006
- Messages
- 217
i sense sarcasm, but would like a confirmation. are you confident this will not actually improve the situation? my arrival in portland is open-ended, so it can be absorbed.
UP may not be doing any maintenance at that time of year due to the temps, other than emergency work. However, I don't believe that this summer's work will eliminate all of the slow orders along the route. I seem to recall reading something that said it would be two or three years before all the problem spots are fixed.
And the amount of freight on the line is not expected to go down anytime soon. So add in snow issues, frozen switches and such, and I wouldn't expect a huge improvement. You might do a bit better than the summer trains have been doing, but I'd still plan on being late.
yarrow
Engineer
we had reservations on the cs last fall and cancelled them. we were to take the eb from portland but because of the non existent otp of the cs we were told we would be bussed klamath falls to pasco even though we had purchased our tickets before the routine bussing began. amtrak still touts the pacific parlour car although i understand it is absent on most runs(they have their little disclaimer that amenities may change at any time). we travel on the eb and the cascades(bnsf or cn track)and have never had a problem. we live on a blessed route.
DaveKCMO
Service Attendant
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2006
- Messages
- 217
so if i'm planning a cross-country trip starting in kansas city, what other options do i have to get from LA to portland? if i spend an extra night on the train, i'm not sure i'll care. i'll be traveling alone and will probably upgrade to a sleeper.
From LA to Portland you have no other train options, sadly. Your only choice is to be prepared.
If you need to have some reasonable chance of arriving on time, you could consider starting out in the wrong direction. Catch the SW Chief to Chicago and spend the night there instead of in LA. Then ride the Empire Builder to Portland from Chicago.
PennCentralFan
Train Attendant
I applaud the article as someone who really likes Amtrak. Without media attention the problem is more likely to get worse. I think the article puts most of the blame on UP for causing the delay and most of the blame for handling the delay on Amtrak.
What we need is federal enforcement of the act giving Amtrak priority. The truth is that dispatcher with the consent of management are screwing over Amtrak. The only answer is indictments. But under the Imperialist Bush Justice Department that won't happen. I know that many capitalists hate negative publicity because it can shed some light on their oppression of people. So, if the people put pressure on companies they will have to do something; even if it is window dressing it'll be make the situation better.
What we need is federal enforcement of the act giving Amtrak priority. The truth is that dispatcher with the consent of management are screwing over Amtrak. The only answer is indictments. But under the Imperialist Bush Justice Department that won't happen. I know that many capitalists hate negative publicity because it can shed some light on their oppression of people. So, if the people put pressure on companies they will have to do something; even if it is window dressing it'll be make the situation better.
O
Observer
Guest
Imperialist.........Capitalists.......oppression of people... :blink: I thought I was reading something straight out of Pravda. Haven't heard these phrases since the cold war.
RailBirder
Train Attendant
Amtrak delays are frustrating, but I don't think anyone is out to screw Amtrak. I think the problem is too much rail business, and not enough tracks. Trying to merge Amtrak on to a crowded "freeway" of trains is straining the system. The whole thing is very complicated, it's not simply a matter of putting freight trains away in a siding to let Amtrak by. There aren't enough sidings, 7500'+ trains don't fit in all sidings, some sidings already have a train from the opposing direction in them to make a meet, some siding are blocked with trains tied down whose crews died on their hours, etc, etc. On the other hand, Amtrak fits in all sidings. Amtrak often fits in a siding behind another train to make a meet, then backs out once the opposing train gets by like they often do between Jefferson City and Kansas City. Maybe it makes sense to put Amtrak away for 30 minutes to get the 3rd train coming at it by before the crew dies on their hours of service, rather than that die on the main in front of Amtrak resulting in hours of delay. Perhaps the reason the Empire Builder has few delays, is because there isn't overwhelming rail traffic "up there". We need more tracks.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2003
- Messages
- 8,507
Actually, the capitalist, lackey dogs at the DOJ have nothing to do with enforcing Amtrak's rights on the freight railroads. The Amtrak law is not a criminal act and violations are not criminal violations, so indictments are not in play. Enforcement starts with Amtrak requesting review of the operation by the Surface Transportation Board. Unless Amtrak takes that action, nothing happens.
There are two issues. One, the requirement that Amtrak receive "priority" handling seems specific but, in actual enforcement, is more than a little vague. Exactly what is priority? Better than all freights, most freights, or some freights? Even if the UP treated Amtrak like its hottest freight, that could well be considered "priority", but would still be pretty lousy.
Second, Amtrak has a specific contract with the Union Pacific. That contract, which is not a public document, may further define the responsibilities of both Amtrak and the UP in ways that may differ from what the law sets forth. We have no way of knowing what Amtrak and the UP have agreed to do in private.
Bottom line: I do not think any UP execs are going to be heading to jail anytime soon (at least not for this reason) even if they are bunch of capitalist pigs.
There are two issues. One, the requirement that Amtrak receive "priority" handling seems specific but, in actual enforcement, is more than a little vague. Exactly what is priority? Better than all freights, most freights, or some freights? Even if the UP treated Amtrak like its hottest freight, that could well be considered "priority", but would still be pretty lousy.
Second, Amtrak has a specific contract with the Union Pacific. That contract, which is not a public document, may further define the responsibilities of both Amtrak and the UP in ways that may differ from what the law sets forth. We have no way of knowing what Amtrak and the UP have agreed to do in private.
Bottom line: I do not think any UP execs are going to be heading to jail anytime soon (at least not for this reason) even if they are bunch of capitalist pigs.
PennCentralFan
Train Attendant
IF UP execs are knowingly giving Amtrak low-priority and purposedly following a policy of delay and delay of Amtrak on purpose then the DOJ does have to look into it.
Under what authority ? Under a totalitarian Government Maybe but as PRR60 pointed out, not unless criminal acts or violations are committed by these capitalist pigs. If UP is in default on their contract with Amtrak, it is up to Amtrak to seek a remedy through the courts much like you would if someone breached a contract with you.
Now having said that, IMHO Amtrak being a Government entity may have some recourse to seek an investigation
into delays cause by UP's equipment if there is enough suspicion or facts to believe it was intentional and designed to hurt Amtrak or void a contract with them but Amtrak would have to began the process. This may well involve the Imperialist Bush DOJ.
I'm no lawyer but that sounds reasonable to me.
PennCentralFan
Train Attendant
It would be illegal for a RR to purposedly follow a policy of working toward hassling Amtrak. If there are memos stating a policy of purposedly breaking the arrangement that is illegal. There is a bigger issue at stake. There are people in the Bush Adminstration, the Club for Growth, Heritage Foundation, and so on who are giving each other high-fives over this article, who seek to destroy Amtrak.
The truth is that Amtrak works. With proper funding and priority Amtrak works. That's why Bush and his kind hate Amtrak. It's proof that a nationally owned company which is socialist can work for the benefit of the people. They'll throw billions at the airlines in sweetheart loans and subsidies because the stock is still publicly held to maintain the facade that capitalism works for the benefit of the people. Amtrak has worked and is working and will work as long as the forces of imperialism are not actively working to ruin it.
Last edited by a moderator:
So, all this trouble in Northern California and Oregon. Why don't we get a train that runs daily from Bay Area to LA along the Coast route like tho old Daylight? Leave LA at 9AM arrive Oakland at 8PM and vice versa. At lease those of us living in California could arrive at our destinations on time.
It's a wonderful idea, that has been talked about for years, often called the Coast Daylight. Sadly it's an idea that's been talked to death, but never implimented. In large part because of oposition by UP to yet another train on the coastal route between LA and the Bay area. Lack of funding hasn't helped either.
But it's idea that really should see reality, so we continue to hope.
AKA
OBS Chief
Remember the old hair product ad that said something like you tell two people and they tell two people and they tell two people, ect. Well I am going to start by telling two people in congress. Yes, I know the eturnal optimist. The freight roads should be brought to to the table about late Amtrak trains. Can you say conspiracy. Where is OLLY NORTH when you need him? <_<
O
Observer
Guest
With due respect PennCentralfan, let me get this straight in my mind.
1. Bush hates Amtrak because it works.
2. Amtrak is a socialist company.
3. Capitalism works for the benefit of the people is a facade.
4. Our Government is imperialistic.
Do you really believe this Baloney? I'm sorry but as I stated before this sounds like something straight out of Pravda or some other communist rag.
PennCentralFan
Train Attendant
1. Bush hates Amtrak. His administration wants to underfund it and wreck it. With Bush's 900 million proposal it would have meant the end of Amtrak.
2. Amtrak is the National Railroad Passenger Corporation. It is owned by the government (the state) and that is socialism.
3. Capitalism works for the few since the profit or surplus does not go to the workers but to the owners. The value of goods and profits comes from the labor put into it, not the capital.
4. Yes our government is imperialistic and a state-sponsor of terrorism. Read anything by Noam Chomsky, who's a professor at MIT and this country's most important public intellectual. There are other good writers on this subject as well such as David Harvey.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
Acela 21 (Avelia Liberty) development, testing and deployment (2Q 2024)- Latest: JuniusLivonius
-
-
-
-
-
