Sumitomo and Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture order (2012-2023)

[IndyLions]

More great news! First my (adopted state) Cardinal gets a VL2 sleeper, and then my (native state) Wolverine gets a new Siemens train set!

No business class though yet, right?

 

[PerRock]

More great news! First my (adopted state) Cardinal gets a VL2 sleeper, and then my (native state) Wolverine gets a new Siemens train set!

No business class though yet, right?

The Wolverine is running a coach car for Business class. The current consist is: Charger, Venture, AmCafe, Venture x4, Charger.

Here is a picture I took of it on it's inaugural run.

Peter

 

[jamess]

I agree. My previous Blackberry and current Samsung have magnetized cases and don't seem to have any problems.

Laptop hard drivers are the same old tech theyve always been that can be destroyed by magnets easily. Cell phones have never used those.

 

[Steve4031]

Which Wolverine Service has the Siemen's cars? I would enjoy a round trip to Detroit on those.

 

[jis]

Which Wolverine Service has the Siemen's cars? I would enjoy a round trip to Detroit on those.

Apparently 350 and 355.

 

[Steve4031]

Apparently 350 and 355.

Perfect for a daytime round trip. Thank you Jishnu.

 

[Anthony V]

From what I've read in recent posts on this thread, it sounds like at least one trainset (with the exception of the Business Class/Café cars, which aren't available yet) on the Lincoln Service and Wolverine routes, are now using Venture rolling stock. I have a few questions about the Venture cars' current and future deployment. Do all the trainsets on the Lincoln Service and Wolverine routes now use Venture rolling stock? What is the current status of the Business Class/Café Venture cars? When is delivery and deployment of those types of venture cars expected to happen?

 

[PerRock]

Currently only the 350/355 Wolverine uses the Venture cars. In the future the rest will.

peter

 

[west point]

Takes time to get enough to CHI then east coast for final fittings. Understand 8 either on way or are being set up?

 

[PerRock]

Takes time to get enough to CHI then east coast for final fittings. Understand 8 either on way or are being set up?

They don't need to go to the east coast, fit-up is happening in Chicago. I believe all the coaches have been delivered at this point, it's just a matter of fixing the lead piping, ceiling panels & magnetic tables.

At some point in the future the two sets that are currently out in service, will need to be removed from service. As they didn't actually repair the tables, they just stuck a sign on them saying not to pull out the extensions.

peter

 

[NES28]

I saw 4 Venture Business Class cars parked at the Chicago Union Station mail platform a couple of weeks ago.

 

[jis]

Finally it looks like the first Venture set is about to go into service in California on the San Joaquin Service...

All Aboard! New train cars for the San Joaquins route to roll down Central California tracks

Train riders in Central California are about to get a substantial upgrade: new railcars, built in California.

abc30.com

 

[Amtrak25]

Will the Capital Corridor trains need to have their own discreet fleet ?

 

[GDRRiley]

Finally it looks like the first Venture set is about to go into service in California on the San Joaquin Service...

All Aboard! New train cars for the San Joaquins route to roll down Central California tracks

Train riders in Central California are about to get a substantial upgrade: new railcars, built in California.

abc30.com

nice means the comets will be removed from that line.
still wish they'd use comets or horizens to start a coast daylight

Will the Capital Corridor trains need to have their own discreet fleet ?

the vision plan calls for the capital corridor to have ~25 sets. If they change their stance on wires we could see pure EMUs, something like caltrains KISS but with a different interior or we may see a dual mode hydrogen with overhead electrification if they can only get wires up in some sections.
it seems unlikely but the state could just order a bunch new bi level coaches then just change the loco on the front based on route

 

[west point]

Finally it looks like the first Venture set is about to go into service in California on the San Joaquin Service...

All Aboard! New train cars for the San Joaquins route to roll down Central California tracks

Train riders in Central California are about to get a substantial upgrade: new railcars, built in California.

abc30.com

With the route closed to Ssn Diego cars will ot get complete workout

 

[GDRRiley]

With the route closed to Ssn Diego cars will ot get complete workout

they aren't going to be used on the surfliner
they are all going to the San Joaquin which looks like it may be a short lived thing as the states ordered some hydrogen FLIRTs

 

[jrud]

There is a discussion of the California FLIRTs here:

Stadler Flirt Hydrogen MUs for Amtrak California

It's looking like Stadler may be providing Flirt Hydrogen Multiple (HMU?) Unit trainsets for Amtrak California powered by Hydrogen Fuel a Memorandum of Understanding Signed to purchase up to 25 units to operate statewide based on their FLIRT trainsets. a press release (picked up by trains...

www.amtraktrains.com

And here:

https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/2022_0920_media%20release%20mouflirth2_en.pdf

Please note that FLIRTs are single level. Stadler uses the name KISS for two level trains and I haven’t found anything but catenary EMU KISS trains.

 

[GDRRiley]

So this must go along with the rumor of the San Joaquin moving to the CHSR line when completed. No grade crossings.

its not being moved to CAHSR. the service will end at Merced.
CASHR could test with a venture set and AEM-7 from caltrain if they wanted to do 125mph testing before a high speed set came

 

[jrud]

Also, another California FLIRT discussion here:

Amtrak California equipment

If Amtrak gets Stadler FLIRTS for the San Joaquin, where will the Venture coaches go?

www.amtraktrains.com

 

[jamess]

Does anyone know if the Venture set runs consistently on one of the frequencies? Will be in Fresno and would like to grab some photos of it.

Also, do they still have a 5 minute smoke break in Fresno where one might be able to jump in and off quickly?

 

[MisterUptempo]

I would guess Covid played a huge role in it along with the failure at Nippon Sharyo and that cost savings were implemented. Siemens rushed to complete the order during the worst possible time to, the Covid shutdowns. Quality control was clearly lacking. That’s backed up by the claims from crews testing the cars that the first batch delivered had loose ceiling tiles. There were a whole myriad of other issues claimed by various folks in many different quarters of the internet, issues that not need to be mentioned because the cars have actual proven issues.

Cost “savings” came from subcontractors using lead based soder and a rather spartan interior design on the cars. The seats, while the same basic design on Brightline, use stiffer padding and less comfortable materials.

Regarding Nippon-Sharyo, I can recall when Caltrans/Sumitomo turned to Siemens for what would eventually become the Venture cars. The NGEC quickly went to work and increased the allowable weight for single-level cars by more than 20%, to allow the Venture cars to confirm to standards.

I wonder, had Nippon-Sharyo been granted an additional 20% weight bump, whether their bi-level design might have passed the buff strength testing, and we'd be complaining about those rail cars instead, or whether their engineering was just that bad, and N-S got in over their heads.

 

[Touchdowntom9]

Regarding Nippon-Sharyo, I can recall when Caltrans/Sumitomo turned to Siemens for what would eventually become the Venture cars. The NGEC quickly went to work and increased the allowable weight for single-level cars by more than 20%, to allow the Venture cars to confirm to standards.

I wonder, had Nippon-Sharyo been granted an additional 20% weight bump, whether their bi-level design might have passed the buff strength testing, and we'd be complaining about those rail cars instead, or whether their engineering was just that bad, and N-S got in over their heads.

Are the Siemens ventures unusually heavy? Or are those cars pretty standard and the NGEC guidelines just unusually strict?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Amfleet cars, (stainless steel)

Weight	106,000–113,000 pounds (48,000–51,000 kg)

A Bombardier Comet commuter car (aluminium)

Weight	100,000 lb (45,359 kg)

The Venture cars

Weight	112,000 lb (50,802 kg)

 

[Touchdowntom9]

Amfleet cars, (stainless steel)

Weight	106,000–113,000 pounds (48,000–51,000 kg)

A Bombardier Comet commuter car (aluminium)

Weight	100,000 lb (45,359 kg)

The Venture cars

Weight	112,000 lb (50,802 kg)

Seems to be less than 20% overweight compared to average, if not just a tiny bit above “average”

 

[jis]

I am wondering if anyone can throw any light on what exactly is going on with the induction of Venture Cars from the Midwest/California order into service, or shall we say lack thereof. It seems like Brightline and VIA are having no problem introducing their cars into service while the State order is stuck in neutral gear for months growing to years. What gives?