Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2012-1Q 2024)

[Mailliw]

Cool, but their info on the San Joaquin trainsets is wrong. Also I'm still confused about Business Class is it going to be a full car married to a coach car, or a BC/coach car married to a full coach car? I'd thought it was the latter, but how does that work 36 extra wide seats in a 2:1 configuration?

 

[MisterUptempo]

Cool, but their info on the San Joaquin trainsets is wrong. Also I'm still confused about Business Class is it going to be a full car married to a coach car, or a BC/coach car married to a full coach car? I'd thought it was the latter, but how does that work 36 extra wide seats in a 2:1 configuration?

The latest information I saw is that the IDOT order will have -
17 married pairs of 1 all econ coach and 1 café/lounge car
17 married pairs of 1 all econ coach and 1 business/econ coach combo car
20 individual econ coach cars

Siemens' flyer for the Venture rail cars indicates that an all-business class car would be 50 seats - 16 rows of 2 + 1 seating, plus ADA seating; a full econ coach car is 70 seats - 17 rows of 2 + 2 seating plus ADA seating. IDOT's 36 business class 2 + 1 seats would take up 12 rows, which leaves 4 or 5 rows for 2 + 2 econ coach seating, give or take ADA seating.

The next scheduled annual meeting of the NGEC is scheduled for Friday, February 25, 2022. Caltrans is slated to give a presentation on the progress of the car order. Perhaps if there are any changes in the order, it will be reported then. With any luck, we might get a photo/rendering or two.

I'm just curious if the IDOT café cars will be set up in a café/coach configuration, as presented in the Siemens flyer, or if it will be a galley and service counter with café seating throughout the entire car. For rail cars dedicated to shorter, regional routes, a full-size café car would be quite generous, indeed.

 

[cocojacoby]

In Finland they have a massive loading gauge as well as a broad track guage which led to some gigantic sleeper cars for a few services.

Yeah they use the Russian 5 foot guage which supposedly allows wider equipment but does 3.5 inches really make that much of a difference?

Here's a fun little video on their version of the Pendolino and also the way customs should be handled:

 

[jis]

Nice write up, thanks for posting! I think the significant thing is, at least to me, "first new in 30 years" in the Midwest....

Indeed! Soon there will be very little old left in Midwest regional service.

 

[cocojacoby]

Not sure if anyone has posted this before but here's an article by the Points Guy. Those seats really do not look comfortable to me. Add the reclining limitations and the backward facing seating . . . not great. Let's hope the Amfleet II version is a giant step backwards in seat design:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/amtra...DKkxbkCAMPO54bzTE95_P_qHzBXY3nES7-hr0cCzwn7u0

 

[penguinflies]

I was on 301 yesterday and it was a real mix of cars. 1 Venture, then amfleet, horizon, amfleet, horizon, & amfleet cafe made up the rear. Super light load.

 

[Cal]

I was on 301 yesterday and it was a real mix of cars. 1 Venture, then amfleet, horizon, amfleet, horizon, & amfleet cafe made up the rear. Super light load.

Was the venture open to the public?

 

[penguinflies]

Was the venture open to the public?

I didn't ask and wasn't aware till we detrained in stl. It appears only the rear 2 cars were loaded with passengers

 

[jamess]

Not sure if anyone has posted this before but here's an article by the Points Guy. Those seats really do not look comfortable to me. Add the reclining limitations and the backward facing seating . . . not great. Let's hope the Amfleet II version is a giant step backwards in seat design:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/amtra...DKkxbkCAMPO54bzTE95_P_qHzBXY3nES7-hr0cCzwn7u0

Yeah the comfort looks poor. Ok for a commuter railroad, not so good for some 6+ hour routes these trains will be on (Bakersfield to Oakland).

The removed width is necessary for ADA, so thats fine, but the padding looks to be as thin as Spirit and the recline just as poor.

 

[Trogdor]

Yeah the comfort looks poor. Ok for a commuter railroad, not so good for some 6+ hour routes these trains will be on (Bakersfield to Oakland).

The removed width is necessary for ADA, so thats fine, but the padding looks to be as thin as Spirit and the recline just as poor.

I suspect many people sit in an office chair with less padding for 8 hours/day, 5 days/week with no issue.

 

[Steve4031]

I suspect many people sit in an office chair with less padding for 8 hours/day, 5 days/week with no issue.

As a teacher, I have sat in some pretty lousy chairs over my career. The kindergarten classroom with those super small chairs was the most challenging. The regular student chairs that were in there were not much better. When the students in the back row needed help with math, I spent 45 minutes on the super small chair between two of the students. I was ok until I had to get up. On a few days, when my arthritis was acting up, they may have learned a few new vocabulary words.

The one thing that I observed in these new cars is that the window cill is flat. If I place my elbow on the window sill, and then my chin on my hand, I have a nice comfortable position for sitting and looking out the window.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Yeah the comfort looks poor. Ok for a commuter railroad, not so good for some 6+ hour routes these trains will be on (Bakersfield to Oakland).

The removed width is necessary for ADA, so thats fine, but the padding looks to be as thin as Spirit and the recline just as poor.

I rode Spirit for the first time a few weeks ago. The seats were comfortable for my 2+ hour flights. I don’t think they would have become uncomfortable for a longer flight.

 

[IndyLions]

I rode Spirit for the first time a few weeks ago. The seats were comfortable for my 2+ hour flights. I don’t think they would have become uncomfortable for a longer flight.

Definitely a “buyer beware“ scenario with those seats.

My flight from Indy to Las Vegas caused me to swear off that airline. I’m not particularly large and not particularly small – a little above average in height and weight. It was a brutally uncomfortable flight for me. To the point where I basically have decided that I am flying either comfort plus or first class from now on (of course where possible I’ll be flying Amtrak)

I do appreciate the fact that this airline exists, and others like it – allowing more people to travel more places. But I never want to fly this airline again.

But on the new Amtrak seats in the Midwest – I am anxious to try them out – but more than likely I’ll be doing everything in my power to travel in (as of yet not available) business class. But I’ll reserve judgment on the coach seats until I sit in one.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

lets wait for people who actually sat in these seats vs those who think they saw .....

 

[cocojacoby]

I know on Brightline that the "Premier Class" seats are 2" wider but are they padded any more, recline more or provide more leg room? I don't believe so.

However, the Brightline seats do LOOK more comfortable than those on the Amtrak cars. Just an observation of course.

 

[keelhauled]

I suspect many people sit in an office chair with less padding for 8 hours/day, 5 days/week with no issue.

My judgement of comfort is colored significantly by whether I'm paying money for the experience or getting paid for it, though.

 

[Trogdor]

My judgement of comfort is colored significantly by whether I'm paying money for the experience or getting paid for it, though.

I suppose. But I also suppose people traveling from Chicago-St. Louis are paying for transportation, not “experience.”

 

[keelhauled]

I'd call them one and the same. Probably "service" would have been the better word. Anyway, the point is, Amtrak charges a bunch of money to use. Personally, I often find it justifiable because it's usually pretty comfortable, but "slimline seat" and "no recline" aren't phrases I associate with comfort, in general. So that changes the value proposition.

 

[Arctifox]

I've had the opportunity to take the new Venture coaches recently and and all in all I have to say they are pretty good - I think it does compare very well to the Railjet in Austria (which is where I'm from), both the good and the bad. The car itself is great, very spacious, very modern, the ride comfort is very good as well. The seats are definitely the big "but" when talking about the new cars. They definitely do recline (it's not just the seat cushion moving around), but considering that the unreclined status feels like a very unnatural, almost vertical angle, I see why people might say it doesn't. However, I don't really understand why people are so bothered by the lack of proper recline, so I don't mind the lack of a bigger recline.

Overall I have to say that the new cars are great and a big upgrade. It's great to have a modern car feels very spacious and has proper windows (which are not orange), good ride comfort and a modern passenger information system (even though I think they could have thought about more/better information than what is currently shown).

 

[MARC Rider]

Overall I have to say that the new cars are great and a big upgrade. It's great to have a modern car feels very spacious and has proper windows (which are not orange), good ride comfort and a modern passenger information system (even though I think they could have thought about more/better information than what is currently shown).

Also, considering that the cars they're replacing are pushing 50 years old, all sorts of mechanical failures will be less likely to happen. Plus, if they need repair, the manufacturer is still in business, and the correct spare parts are readily available.

 

[cocojacoby]

I guess this photo shows the amount of recline. Note the seat cushion is slid a couple of inches forward AND the seat back looks like it is a couple of inches back compared to the seat next to it. Maybe enough for most shorter trips but far from what Amtrak customers are used to especially on LD Amfleet II.

 

[neroden]

I guess this photo shows the amount of recline. Note the seat cushion is slid a couple of inches forward AND the seat back looks like it is a couple of inches back compared to the seat next to it. Maybe enough for most shorter trips but far from what Amtrak customers are used to especially on LD Amfleet II. View attachment 27164

Good to know that the seat back does move, if not much.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

each order is different , do we actually know what seats Amtrak is ordering ?

 

[Trogdor]

Has Amtrak even ordered Amfleet II replacements yet? I thought it was obvious that these cars are only operating on short-distance trains.

 

[cocojacoby]

Has Amtrak even ordered Amfleet II replacements yet? I thought it was obvious that these cars are only operating on short-distance trains.

It makes sense for Amtrak to order the same cars for Amfleet II replacements for Eastern LD trains. I would guess they could have similar mechanicals but offer different seating which would be more comfortable for longer overnight trips.

One interesting question though . . . since the LD trains are all turned at their termination points (?) could Amtrak order all forward-facing fixed seats?