Sunset Limited along the International Border

[Swadian Hardcore]

The times I encountered this in El Paso I was out on the platform and they didn't pay any attention to us. My wife was in the sleeper when they came through, asked if she was a US Citizen, she said yes, and they moved on through the train. Just got of #1 this morning at LAUS on time and here at the computer an hour later!

How was your trip? Not too bad out in the early morning of LA?

 

[DanaE]

Unfortunately, while in most of the US no one ever asks to see your papers, the border area is a different matter. I don't think a foreigner has a legal right to refuse to show documents.

It's not like I want to refuse showing documents, it is just the logistical headache of hauling my passport and other original documents everywhere I travel, because now if I manage to misplace/lose them, I am in even deeper trouble.

Yes they will ask for your "papers" if you state that you are not a U.S. Citizen. My wife and I were pulled over at a BP checkpoint on I-8 near Yuma, When we were asked if we were all U.S. citizens my wife (a legal resident at the time) answered, "no". He then asked for her green card which she had left at home. Fortunateley she remembered her A# which the agent put in his computer to verify. Then we were OK to go, but not without a stern warning that all non-citizens need to carry their green card or other proof of legal residence.

I find it scary to carry my original passport and immigration forms with me everywhere just because there is a risk that I might lose them and then have to go through long annoying process of getting them reissued. So as a backup I have scanned them all and carry PDF copies on my phone and on my laptop. If I show that if stopped for "random check" would that suffice? Or they insist on seeing the original documents? Anyone has experience?

The US government requires that you carry your greencard on your person at all times. That's the law.

If you are worried about losing it, well, the US government will gladly re-issue a new greencard for $450.(may be more these days)

And who says the government doesn't know how to make money?

As soon as you naturalize and become a U.S. citizen, you are no longer required anything. (unless you're driving, in which case you'll need a driver's license)

 

[TinCan782]

The times I encountered this in El Paso I was out on the platform and they didn't pay any attention to us. My wife was in the sleeper when they came through, asked if she was a US Citizen, she said yes, and they moved on through the train. Just got of #1 this morning at LAUS on time and here at the computer an hour later!

How was your trip? Not too bad out in the early morning of LA?

#1, and #2 last week, were pretty good rides this time around..."on time" for most of the route LAX to TPL and return. Our 0530 arrival, we retrieved the car from the underground lot on the east side of LAUS and be home before 7AM. In December, our arrival on #1 was 2 hours late...didn't mind - 0730 was a decent time to arrive!

 

[Shawn Ryu]

The times I encountered this in El Paso I was out on the platform and they didn't pay any attention to us. My wife was in the sleeper when they came through, asked if she was a US Citizen, she said yes, and they moved on through the train.

Is it that black and white? Anyone who says they are NOT a US citizen is considered an illegal alien? I am not a US citizen, I live in the United States on a visa, am 100% legal, have SSN, pay taxes everything.. so if I was on the Sunset and they asked me and I said no I am not a US citizen (and I am brown skinned) will that put me on suspicious list? Would they ask me to show my visa and other immigration papers? I don't carry around those things when I am traveling domestic.

Yes they will ask for your "papers" if you state that you are not a U.S. Citizen. My wife and I were pulled over at a BP checkpoint on I-8 near Yuma, When we were asked if we were all U.S. citizens my wife (a legal resident at the time) answered, "no". He then asked for her green card which she had left at home. Fortunateley she remembered her A# which the agent put in his computer to verify. Then we were OK to go, but not without a stern warning that all non-citizens need to carry their green card or other proof of legal residence.

Same thing happened to my late wife! (she was Canadian) She Lost her "Green Card" in Windsor, ON (too many Free Drinks and Slot Machines in the Casino :giggle: )and when we crossed through the Tunnel back into Detroit on the way to catch the Early Wolverine to Chicago she was fortunate that she had Copies of all her Paperwork and since it was 5AM the Agent looked it up and waived us through! (I had my US Passport which wasnt required then)

But she was told Very Sternly it was a Pretty Good Idea to have your Original Documents when Leaving and trying to Enter the US! (this was pre 9-11). YMMV

Not to turn this in to a race issue but if you are white or Asian of Japan/Korea/Chinese descent and speak flawless English (for Asians only this one) they generally let you go from my experience. Been to Mexico plenty of times via car.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The times I encountered this in El Paso I was out on the platform and they didn't pay any attention to us. My wife was in the sleeper when they came through, asked if she was a US Citizen, she said yes, and they moved on through the train. Just got of #1 this morning at LAUS on time and here at the computer an hour later!

How was your trip? Not too bad out in the early morning of LA?

#1, and #2 last week, were pretty good rides this time around..."on time" for most of the route LAX to TPL and return. Our 0530 arrival, we retrieved the car from the underground lot on the east side of LAUS and be home before 7AM. In December, our arrival on #1 was 2 hours late...didn't mind - 0730 was a decent time to arrive!

I'm glad you enjoyed the new schedule. Didn't know you were from LA, I really thought you were from FRS! Lots of people complain about the new schedule, but it seem to be no big problem. You must've had breakfast back home anyway.

 

[DET63]

I find it scary to carry my original passport and immigration forms with me everywhere just because there is a risk that I might lose them and then have to go through long annoying process of getting them reissued. So as a backup I have scanned them all and carry PDF copies on my phone and on my laptop. If I show that if stopped for "random check" would that suffice? Or they insist on seeing the original documents? Anyone has experience?

According to the law, you must carry the original document at all times. Whether you'll be prosecuted for breaking the law if you carry a copy instead is another matter.

Question:

I just got my green card and friends have told me that I should keep it in a safe place at home instead of carrying it around with me in my wallet. Is this correct? Or do I have to carry my green card with me everywhere I go?




Answer:

If you are 18 or older, you do have to carry your green card with you. Section 264(e) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (I.N.A.) requires all lawful permanent residents (LPRs) to have “at all times” official evidence of LPR status.

Failing to have your green card with you is a misdemeanor and if you are found guilty you can be fined up to $100 and put in jail for up to 30 days. (I.N.A. Section 264(e).) A copy is not good enough, because the law does not use the word “copy” or refer to “other evidence” of LPR status.

The official evidence of LPR status that most people eventually receive is an “alien registration receipt card,” also known as Form I-551 or, more commonly, a “green card.” Sometimes, people do not have their green card, but are already LPRs. For example, when somebody first arrives in the U.S. with an immigrant visa, they first receive an “I-551 stamp” in their passport. Weeks later, they receive the actual green card in the mail. In the time before receiving the green card in the mail, the LPR would have to carry his or her passport “at all times” or risk breaking the law.

If you decide to carry a copy of your green card instead of the original because you want to keep the original safe, you will be violating the law. Will you actually be stopped by immigration, prosecuted and fined or jailed for not having your original green card with you? It's unlikely. Like any other government agency, immigration authorities have limited resources and cannot spend precious government time and money on prosecuting people for not carrying their green card “at all times.”

But there have been cases where LPRs are detained or arrested during workplace enforcement actions for not having their green card on them. So to be on the safe side, and obey the law, you should actually carry your green card with you everywhere you go. And it probably goes without saying that if you will be traveling internationally, you should take your original green card with you to board a plane or boat back to the U.S. and to reenter the U.S. as an LPR.

Do I really need to carry my green card with me?

 

[NW cannonball]

But if you just say -- "yeah - US citizen" as I have done many times, and it's true.

No hassle - what's the point of the Border Guard only questioning people who who say "no - not Citizen" any "not-citizen" could say "citizen" and no problem -- :wacko:

 

[guest]

Just in general, no matter where you are traveling, it is always a good idea to keep a color photocopy of your passport and any other relevant documents packed in your suitcase. If you do forget or lose the original, the copy can at least be used to establish your identity, and most of the time the authorities will let it go.

 

[DanaE]

Just in general, no matter where you are traveling, it is always a good idea to keep a color photocopy of your passport and any other relevant documents packed in your suitcase. If you do forget or lose the original, the copy can at least be used to establish your identity, and most of the time the authorities will let it go.

I also keep a scanned image of my passport and other useful IDs on my Google Drive.

Worse case scenario, I lose the original AND the copy...

but I can still use any computer/tablet/phone to bring up my passport.

 

[leemell]

On the East bound SL the border patrol walked the train in Lake Charles several times when I was riding. The tap on the door and looking out the curtain to see someone in uniform and a badge was a little unsetteling the 1st time it happened but they just ask If I'm a US citizen. I could understand it taking place in Houston, MAYBE, but Lake Charles ?

Legally anywhere within 100 miles of the border.

 

[the Other Mike]

On the East bound SL the border patrol walked the train in Lake Charles several times when I was riding. The tap on the door and looking out the curtain to see someone in uniform and a badge was a little unsetteling the 1st time it happened but they just ask If I'm a US citizen. I could understand it taking place in Houston, MAYBE, but Lake Charles ?

Legally anywhere within 100 miles of the border.

OK, this is where I'm confused. How is Lake Charles within 100 miles of the border? ( or, are we considering within 100 miles of the coast line ?)

 

[leemell]

All national coastlines are the border as well.

 

[trainman74]

Just in general, no matter where you are traveling, it is always a good idea to keep a color photocopy of your passport and any other relevant documents packed in your suitcase.

Many color photocopy machines will not photocopy a passport in color, but black-and-white copies should work just fine. (Such machines also won't photocopy paper money, and various other official documents.)

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Just in general, no matter where you are traveling, it is always a good idea to keep a color photocopy of your passport and any other relevant documents packed in your suitcase.

Many color photocopy machines will not photocopy a passport in color, but black-and-white copies should work just fine. (Such machines also won't photocopy paper money, and various other official documents.)

Can't you hack the machine to make it do the photocopy?

 

[George Harris]

Just in general, no matter where you are traveling, it is always a good idea to keep a color photocopy of your passport and any other relevant documents packed in your suitcase.

Many color photocopy machines will not photocopy a passport in color, but black-and-white copies should work just fine. (Such machines also won't photocopy paper money, and various other official documents.)

I think most home printers that will also photocopy will make a color copy. Ours will.

 

[trainman74]

Can't you hack the machine to make it do the photocopy?

I wouldn't know. Personally, I've only ever tried to photocopy a passport on a color copier that belonged to my (now-former) employer. Attempting to hack equipment belonging to one's employer is not a good idea.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Can't you hack the machine to make it do the photocopy?

I wouldn't know. Personally, I've only ever tried to photocopy a passport on a color copier that belonged to my (now-former) employer. Attempting to hack equipment belonging to one's employer is not a good idea.

Oh, I didn't know it was your employers. You can trust that I don't make fakes, but those people with fakes IDs and such must have gotten it some way or another. Since I know so little about electronics, I had to ask.

 

[TinCan782]

When I first started this thread with a video from the Sunset Limited skirting the border I had no idea it would turn into this!

 

[DanaE]

When I first started this thread with a video from the Sunset Limited skirting the border I had no idea it would turn into this!

the second I saw "Border Patrol" in your original thread, I knew where this thread would be headed!

I did enjoy the video but it was too short... how about the longer videos? Posted to YouTube, perhaps? Thanks!

 

[TinCan782]

When I first started this thread with a video from the Sunset Limited skirting the border I had no idea it would turn into this!

the second I saw "Border Patrol" in your original thread, I knew where this thread would be headed!

I did enjoy the video but it was too short... how about the longer videos? Posted to YouTube, perhaps? Thanks!

I was trying to keep the videos "short" as I was on the move on the Sunset Limited...not the best area in the world for cell coverage and uploading videos. Thanks

 

[DJ]

A couple of years ago I was getting off the Wolverine in Dearborn Mich. The border patrol (ICE) was asking all detraining passengers where they were born. My exact response was "None of your business, what is this, North Korea". I walked past them without slowing down. They followed me most of the way to my car shouting "SIR, SIR" but they gave up when I got to my car ,and they walked away. They couldn't kick me off the train, I was already off the train.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

...so if I was on the Sunset and they asked me and I said no I am not a US citizen... [irrelevant part of quote deleted] ...Would they ask me to show my visa and other immigration papers? I don't carry around those things when I am traveling domestic.

In a word, yes. I say this as the spouse of someone who is Canadian, but did not get her US citizenship for many years. You should, at least in theory, always carry your visa or green card with you, this is especially true anywhere near a US border.

 

[George Harris]

Not to turn this in to a race issue but if you are white or Asian of Japan/Korea/Chinese descent and speak flawless English (for Asians only this one) they generally let you go from my experience. Been to Mexico plenty of times via car.

Not always true. On one occasion while we were living in Taiwan a friend of ours was going to come to the US with us. She was rejected for a visa on the grounds that her English was too good, she was single and could not prove that she did not intend to become an illegal immigrant. (How can you prove you are not going to do something?) By the way, the visa application fee is non-refundable, and it ain't cheap.

 

[jis]

Not always true. On one occasion while we were living in Taiwan a friend of ours was going to come to the US with us. She was rejected for a visa on the grounds that her English was too good, she was single and could not prove that she did not intend to become an illegal immigrant. (How can you prove you are not going to do something?) By the way, the visa application fee is non-refundable, and it ain't cheap.

It is actually a bit worse than that. The law is that no one who plans to immigrate can be granted a non-immigrant visa. This means that you have to convince the Consular Officer that you do not plan to become even a legal immigrant in order to be granted a non-immigrant visa. Of course as it turns out case law on this matter has established that your intention at the point that you apply for the non-immigrant visa is the only determining factor. Not what your intention becomes after you have entered the country using a non-immigrant visa. Afterall the US economy thrives on armies of people entering using a non-immigrant visa and then converting to either another category of visa or Green Card.
The Consular Officer unfortunately has to make a determination that at the point the visa is granted the intention of the person is not to immigrate to the US. Same is true of the CBP officer processing an entry into the country at any airport, port or border check post.

Another consequence of this is that once you have got yourself in the long line for Green Card (I-551), you can usually stay on in the country using the status of your last entry, provided you meet other requirements. But if you leave the country you cannot get back in until you get your I-551 processed letter. So mostly people stay put, sometimes for years until the I-551 processing is completed. In my case I-551 processing took 4 months, and I actually never left the country after I moved from F1 to H1 and then to I-551. You could do that back then. you can't anymore. You have to leave the country and re-enter with the new non-immigrant status for converting from F1 to H1, or so it was the last time I looked. It may have changed again since then.

 

[ReidTYK]

Heading back to the original topic, the one time that I've been on the Sunset, we had the DEA come into the TE sleeper and accompany someone off of the train who had some large amount of marijuana hidden in his roomette. To make it worse, he was at the same time unable to prove his citizenship. By far my most exciting Amtrak experience yet