SWC issue heating up

[BNSFboy]

The SWC issue is beginning to show signs of life as this story came out for Wichita on 8/30.

http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news/2012/08/30/amtrak-service-might-be-diverted.html

 

[Eric S]

Eh. Nothing really new there. The Wichita Business Journal story references a letter from mid-July sent by the 3 state DOTs (CO, KS, NM) to Amtrak saying essentially that they are unable (read: unwilling) to commit to plan to fund the SWC's operation over its current route. I imagine there will be more such articles in the coming months (and years?) as the states and communities affected, and BNSF, and Amtrak wrestle with the issue.

 

[BNSFboy]

True, but nobody is stepping up so every one of these letter i'm taking a close look at these being i'm directly effected by the reroute. Just wish they would make up there mind so one of the Amtrak issues would be over

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

These high SWC prices are probably caused by the current route maintainence.

 

[VentureForth]

These high SWC prices are probably caused by the current route maintainence.

Huh?

They don't raise prices to pay for the maintenance. If passenger load is high, then they charge high prices to get the most revenue they can through the economic principle of supply and demand. If the route maintainance were causing people NOT to right the SWC, then the prices would DROP.

 

[cirdan]

Interesting that as per the mail in the other threda, the Albuquerque stop is being dropped. Previous suggestions have involved wying the train there.

 

[MrFSS]

Interesting that as per the mail in the other threda, the Albuquerque stop is being dropped. Previous suggestions have involved wying the train there.

Here is that post so you won't have to go looking for it.

Passenger Rail Oklahoma
PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

August 31, 2012

Due to deteriorating track conditions between Newton, KS – LaJunta, CO – Lamy, NM the daily Amtrak Chicago – Los Angeles Southwest Chiefpassenger train will likely move to a new route in 2015 or 2016. There is anoutside chance it will be discontinued all together if the political situationin Washington D.C. and Amtrak’s Midwest HQ, Chicago does not improve. TheAmtrak Southwest Chief contract with the BNSF Railway expires in 2015.

Funding, changes in the freight rail industry, and 60 years ofdeterioration have introduced this possibility. The BNSF Railway provides hostrailroad services for Amtrak on this route. New Mexico, Colorado, and KansasSecretaries of Transportation balked at the idea of states paying $100 millioninitially to rebuild the route and $2 million per-state thereafter to keep theSouthwest Chief on its historical route. Amtrak and the BNSF Railway have bothgone on record stating this is the long term financial plan. The secretariesprovided a written statement to Amtrak in Chicago this month.

If rerouted the Southwest Chief would follow a former passengerrail route, that of the San Francisco Chief in Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and NewMexico. This train last operated in 1971 between Chicago – San Francisco.However; the train would be a hybrid so to speak, likely still terminating inLos Angeles.

Ten present Southwest Chief stops could be eliminated. Kansasstops would be Hutchinson, Dodge City, and Garden City. Colorado stopseliminated would be Lamar, La Junta, and Trinidad. New Mexico stops eliminatedwould be Raton, Las Vegas, Lamy (the stop for Santa Fe), and Albuquerque.Albuquerque and Santa Fe would still be served by the New Mexico Rail Runnercommuter train with Amtrak connections made in Belen, 35 miles south ofAlbuquerque.

A rerouted Southwest Chief would likely turn south at Newton, KSafter making its stop. Historically, the San Francisco Chief made Kansas stopsin Newton, Wichita, and Wellington. Oklahoma stops were made in Alva andWoodward. Three Texas stops were made in Pampa, Amarillo, and Herford. NewMexico stops included Clovis and Belen before rejoining the Santa Fe mainline(now owned by the BNSF Railway).

It is likely Amtrak would require reroute communities to provideat least some station improvement funding. Per stop, this would range about$950,000 to $1.5 million. Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) improvementswould be the main cost; however, some communities would need to build depots ashistoric structures have either been sold to private interests or have beentorn down in the past 41 years since the San Francisco Chief was discontinued.Amtrak, perpetually cash strapped, is likely to request this funding ratherthan paying for station facilities.

The BNSF Railway is justifying this reroute based upon a desire todowngrade the Newton – Albuquerque line to much slower speed standards thanrequired by its freight trains. No freight trains have operated betweenTrinidad, CO and Albuquerque since the mid-2000s. The BNSF Railway mainline iswell maintained between Newton – Amarillo – Clovis – Belen for fast freightbetween Chicago and California. It is ideal for Amtrak service.

Evan Stair

President

Passenger Rail Oklahoma

www.PassengerRailOK.org

www.PassengerRailKS.org

www.PassengerRailTX.org

 

[SarahZ]

Interesting that as per the mail in the other threda, the Albuquerque stop is being dropped. Previous suggestions have involved wying the train there.

The press release in the closed thread says, "Ten present Southwest Chief stops could be eliminated."

There's a big difference between "could" and "will".

I doubt they'll drop ABQ. It's a service stop with a large passenger base. It's possible the Road Runner would adjust its schedule to meet the SWC, but there's no guarantee, especially when you factor in early/late trains.

 

[VentureForth]

Interesting that as per the mail in the other threda, the Albuquerque stop is being dropped. Previous suggestions have involved wying the train there.

The press release in the closed thread says, "Ten present Southwest Chief stops could be eliminated."

There's a big difference between "could" and "will".

I doubt they'll drop ABQ. It's a service stop with a large passenger base. It's possible the Road Runner would adjust its schedule to meet the SWC, but there's no guarantee, especially when you factor in early/late trains.

The current rail estate situation in Belen is poor for connecting service to the New Mexico Railrunner Express. There is so much wrong with rerouting to the transcon in my own humble opinion, but its already been discussed ad nauseam.

 

[Notelvis]

It is difficult for me now to imagine any scenario that will allow the Southwest Chief to remain on it's historic route. Speeds over Raton Pass have dropped significantly and will only continue to do so without a whole lot of track work...... and the longer the trackwork is delayed, the more expensive it becomes to do it.

I think the debate will soon shift as to whether the train would do some backtracking to serve Albuquerque. Something that I hope they will do rather than try to shift that to a connecting commuter train.

 

[Rafi]

Unfortunately, I think it's a matter of when, not if this is going to happen--at least the way things have been going. Sad news, to be sure.

What's not immediately clear to me is how, exactly, the SWC will make the platform at Belen. The platform track there is stub-ended on the southern side, and the only option I see would be for the (in this example, a westbound) SWC to pass the station on the mainline, cross over to the station track about a half-mile north, and then back in. Then to continue west on the route, they would have to pull out again headed toward ABQ to that crossover, reverse and cross BACK over to the main line heading northwest. Throw the switch, and then move on. I guess that they could just extend the station track south and install a switch, but they still wouldn't have an easy way to head northwest after the station work. I guess we'll see how things pan out.

On another note, the optimist in me would hope that a timed RailRunner connection train would tow a Superliner sleeper and coach all of the way from Santa Fe to Belen where it's combined with the Chief. That'll of course almost assuredly never happen, but that doesn't meant that it's a crazy idea.

The only operational problem I could see with that is what happens when you need to run the RailRunner in push mode. The superliners would have to go behind the engine, and I'm not sure what the FRA requirements are on speed when an engine is mid-consist.

Rafi

 

[PRR 60]

I don't think there is any chance that a rerouted SWC would skip Albuquerque. BNSF has wye capability in ABQ (and Amtrak has used it when track issues required turning an eastbound train back to LAX). There is no reason that wye could not be used for turning trains at ABQ to and from the BNSF Transcon. Setting up the rerouted SWC to serve ABQ would not be much different than the way the Silver Star serves Tampa.

Although the Rail Runner has a station at Belen, that station is on a stub track and is not on the through BNSF Transcon route. Finding a way to locate a new station for the SWC on the Transcon (presumably BNSF would require a side track off the main line) and a reasonable way for passengers to get from that new station over to the Rail Runner station, would not be easy or cheap.

 

[VentureForth]

Let's not forget that there is NOTHING in Belen to see. N O T H I N G! It's more populated than, say, Lamy, but there is NOTHING there. Unless you're a railfan. There's a nice model train club in the Harvey house, and it's a great place to sit and watch the switching at the Belen yard. That was fun while I lived nearby in Los Lunas for a couple of years.

 

[SarahZ]

On another note, the optimist in me would hope that a timed RailRunner connection train would tow a Superliner sleeper and coach all of the way from Santa Fe to Belen where it's combined with the Chief. That'll of course almost assuredly never happen, but that doesn't meant that it's a crazy idea.

The only operational problem I could see with that is what happens when you need to run the RailRunner in push mode. The superliners would have to go behind the engine, and I'm not sure what the FRA requirements are on speed when an engine is mid-consist.

I realize you're daydreaming, but I don't understand the point to having a sleeper and coach attached to the Road Runner. It's only a 2.5-hour trip, made during daylight hours (assuming the Chief's new schedule isn't affected to the point it departs/arrives in Belen at 3:00 a.m. or some other crazy hour). Those from or visiting Santa Fe would simply purchase a Rail Runner ticket to/from Belen the same way someone from a Chicago suburb would purchase a Metra ticket to "connect" with Amtrak. They're going to have to do this anyway, since the Chief will stop in ABQ and the Lamy/SF portion would be cut.

Again, I realize this is all a pipe dream, especially since the Chief will more than likely turn on the wye at ABQ. I can't imagine ABQ giving up the Chief without a fight.

On the other hand, Governor Martinez is trying to drum up more ridership, since she thinks the Rail Runner is a huge drain to the taxpayers (and ridership was down as of 2011), so the large number of pax departing at Belen to head to ABQ and Santa Fe could be a boon for it. But that brings us back to the issue with the station/tracks at Belen and how they are simply not designed for it.

 

[VentureForth]

Meanwhile, where did Governor Richardson go? Wouldn't surprise me if he went back to his home state California.

 

[Ispolkom]

Meanwhile, where did Governor Richardson go? Wouldn't surprise me if he went back to his home state California.

Geez, he lived in New Mexico for what? 30 years? How many of us have lived in one state that long? He might be corrupt, but I'd hardly call him a carpetbagger.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

These high SWC prices are probably caused by the current route maintainence.

Huh?

They don't raise prices to pay for the maintenance. If passenger load is high, then they charge high prices to get the most revenue they can through the economic principle of supply and demand. If the route maintainance were causing people NOT to right the SWC, then the prices would DROP.

I heard that the SWC has slightly dropped ridership compared to last year.

 

[FunNut]

Meanwhile, where did Governor Richardson go? Wouldn't surprise me if he went back to his home state California.

Check billrichardson.com for current news on Gov. Richardson. He maintains an office in Santa Fe, so he probably still lives there. I was dismayed and disgusted at the allegations of corruption, but he did a lot for New Mexico as governor. Among his accomplishments were the Rail Runner, incentivizing a much more active NM filmmaking industry, and he spearheaded the Spaceport. I do think his most lasting legacy is the Rail Runner and should SWC route be changed, the commuter rail will be vital to moving Amtrak travelers to/from Santa Fe.

 

[alanh]

Unless someone comes up with the millions of dollars to rehab the Raton line, I think it's inevitable that the SWC is going to be rerouted via Amarillo. From my understanding the completion of double-tracking in Abo Canyon allowed BNSF to route the remainder of their traffic off that line.

In addition to rehabbing the track, the signals also need to be replaced. BNSF dropped the replacement when they decided to abandon the line instead. Is there any other line Amtrak operates on that's still using semaphores?

 

[Nathanael]

It is difficult for me now to imagine any scenario that will allow the Southwest Chief to remain on it's historic route. Speeds over Raton Pass have dropped significantly and will only continue to do so without a whole lot of track work...... and the longer the trackwork is delayed, the more expensive it becomes to do it.

I think the debate will soon shift as to whether the train would do some backtracking to serve Albuquerque. Something that I hope they will do rather than try to shift that to a connecting commuter train.

(1) Amtrak is not run by stupid people.

(2) Please look at the Albuquerque passenger counts.

(3) Please note how much more work (& money) it would be to build a viable platform at Belen.

(4) Please look at how LITTLE work it would be to rehabilitate the wye in the vicinity of Albuquerque.

(5) Please note that Albuquerque is a refueling point, a service point, a crew change point, etc., with all those facilities already present.

If the Southwest Chief isn't cancelled entirely, then Amtrak will definitely keep serving Albuquerque.

I am more worried that the Southwest Chief will be rerouted with *no new stations*. If Wichita and Amarillo don't start speaking up and putting in money now, the train might run *nonstop from Newton, KS to Albuquerque*. I think this is perfectly possible. Amtrak's policy is not to pay for new stations itself, and the freight railroads' policy is the same.

I think people in Amarillo and Wichita need to speak up to make sure that when the Southwest Chief is rerouted, Wichita Union Station reopens and Amarillo gets a station too!

Now, I do think the Raton Pass Line should be retained and will probably need to be reopened sooner or later -- to serve Denver-Albuquerque traffic. However, for anything to happen with that depends on having a sane state government in New Mexico and right now they don't have one; they have an *insane* state government which is throwing away the entire line from Lamy to Trinidad having already spent $15 million to buy it, because they don't want to spend the last $5 million. (The $15 million is *not refundable*.) The land alone is worth more than $5 million.

 

[Nathanael]

I am going to repeat (at the risk of being repititious) that I am genuinely worried by the *lack* of passenger rail advocacy in Amarillo and Wichita. There should be groups agitating to have stations built and ready for the train. There aren't. There should be local governments passing resolutions of support for train service and allocating token amounts of money to planning studies. There aren't.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Why did BNSF leave the line? They could have upgraded it.

 

[printman2000]

I am going to repeat (at the risk of being repititious) that I am genuinely worried by the *lack* of passenger rail advocacy in Amarillo and Wichita. There should be groups agitating to have stations built and ready for the train. There aren't. There should be local governments passing resolutions of support for train service and allocating token amounts of money to planning studies. There aren't.

With the year 2015 and the words "might reroute" being used, ain't nothing going to happen soon.

 

[Amtrak George]

As with all railroads, traffic patterns have changed over the years. The transcon through Amarillo, south of the Chief route, has been heavily upgraded and is most double track so can now handle Amtrak as well as lots of freight. The current Amtrak route has sections with very light freight service and some with no freight trains at all. And don't forget the heavy grades on the Amtrak line which don't exist on the transcon. BNSF can't handle their fast cross country freight on the current AMTK line, so they have no incentive to maintain it.

With the Illinois Central line through Grenada, MS it was just a matter of time before things shifted to the delta line after it got upgraded and CTC was installed. Amtrak went over to the Delta because they couldn't afford to pay to maintain the Grenada line at passenger train speeds.

Back to the transcon, BNSF is giving Amtrak the right to run over there, and I feel this is going to happen soon. I personally like the original passenger main of the ATSF; more scenic, moving the train would affect a lot of communites etc. Sad situation but in today's budget crunches and political climates don't hold your breath for big tax money to be committed to keep the Chief on its current route.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Will moving the route make the SWC faster?