Texas Eagle move to TRE

[Lonestar648]

Those who are the most impatient for the train to depart are also the ones with no patience when the train is delayed, in other words cant make them happy. Me, I would just be happy that the train is on time and I don't have to waste time considering alternate plans for a delayed arrival. Sitting in FTW allows a for good walk to stretch the leg muscles plus just as much reading time. .

 

[neroden]

Do they wait for trip time improvements between CHI and STL for a schedule revamp of the TE?

Definitely not. There's still Alton-St. Louis, and the Springfield reroute. CHI-STL will be under construction approximately forever.For now, the Texas Eagle should arguably be rescheduled based on the time it takes to take the detour route (ex-MoPac, ex-CE&I) from St. Louis to Chicago. I'm assuming that's the worst-case scenario from STL to CHI...

 

[Bob Dylan]

Keep in mind that the Eagle isn't included in the number of Trains that will be allowed to run 110Mph when the trackwork is finally finished between CHI and STL, only the Lincoln Trains are included under the present deal.

 

[afigg]

Do they wait for trip time improvements between CHI and STL for a schedule revamp of the TE?

Definitely not. There's still Alton-St. Louis, and the Springfield reroute. CHI-STL will be under construction approximately forever.For now, the Texas Eagle should arguably be rescheduled based on the time it takes to take the detour route (ex-MoPac, ex-CE&I) from St. Louis to Chicago. I'm assuming that's the worst-case scenario from STL to CHI...

The stated plan, still on the CHI-STL HrSR website, at one time was to implement another round of speed increases by the end of 2015. Which has been delayed, but I'm figuring there will be trip time reductions for the Lincoln service trains showing up sometime in 2016. Not the full one hour reduction, but some improvements. While the TE will presumably be limited to 79 mph, it will also benefit from the track and siding improvements. Does Amtrak tighten up the TE CHI-STL schedule in 2016 or just leave it alone until the 2017 and whatever 2018 upgrades are done? (Not all of the funding is stimulus, some is the FY2010 grant which doesn't have the Sept, 2017 deadline). My guess they will leave the TE CHI-STL schedule alone for better OTP stats until the track upgrades are mostly done.

 

[afigg]

Keep in mind that the Eagle isn't included in the number of Trains that will be allowed to run 110Mph when the trackwork is finally finished between CHI and STL, only the Lincoln Trains are included under the present deal.

Of course, it is understood that the TE is going to be limited to 79 mph speed unless UPs agrees. Even then, top speed of the Superliners is 100 mph. But there are a bunch of improvements under the 110 mph headline for the project. The TE will benefit from double tracking segments, passing siding upgrades, fixing of << 79 mph track segments, new bridges, grade crossing improvements, even it is limited to a max speed of 79 mph. While the 110 mph Lincoln Service trains are supposed to cut around 1 hour off of the CHI to STL trip time when the funded upgrades are completed, the TE should be able to reduce its CHI-STL trip time by some portion as well. How much, don't know.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

I really hope they can get the Eagle to have an late afternoon Chicago departure again. An Empire Builder connection would be most helpful, as MSP the biggest market that the Texas Eagle has the most potential revenue for.

Sorry, I don't see that.

Likely a connection northwest bound. Now the Eagle is set to arrive at 1:51 p.m. while the Builder leaves at 2:15. So it doesn't connect. But when they cut minutes out of the Eagle's trip time, it could arrive around 1 p.m. Wouldn't that just make it? I'm forgetting the minimum before Amtrak will recognize a legal connection at Chicago.

Illinois is saying the Lincoln trains will run "about an hour" faster. As discussed hereabouts, the Eagle will be somewhat less faster. The Lincolns will benefit from the new locomotives and bi-level cars, while the Eagle's consists will be same old, same old. Still it would seem in UP's interest for all trains to move as fast as they can on the corridor, simply to get out of the way.

A schedule announcement might not be made until a few months before the service actually changes, when the UP, Amtrak, and the Illinois DOT all have a better idea of what the upgrades will actually do for run times and traffic in the real world.

Then, as per this thread, Amtrak might also squeeze a few minutes out of the TRE segment. And perhaps cut padding around St Louis. That way it could find enuff minutes to make that desired Chicago arrival by 1 p.m.

But for your Minnesota passengers, I just don't see moving the Eagle departure later. Illinois wouldn't want it as a rush hour train; that will be a Lincoln departure, and they hope it's full up. The Eagle will be at least half full of LD riders; so it will almost surely remain a mid-day train in the six-train line-up CHI-STL. And moving the Chicago departure by a few hours could mess up the times all the way from Texarkana to Ft Worth down to old San Antone.

Likewise, to move the Builder's Chicago arrival before noon would force St Paul's nice 8 a.m. departure to become pre-dawn. Of course, that St Paul-Milwaukee-CHI line could be upgraded to take a couple hours out of the schedule. That's another story.

 

[neroden]

Of course, it is understood that the TE is going to be limited to 79 mph speed unless UPs agrees.

This is such silliness; I hope that UP Operations understands that they get no benefit from artificially limiting the top speed of the Texas Eagle. Get it over the road, get it to the next siding, get it out of the way... I understand UP wanting padding to smooth out freight schedules, but I can't see any sane reason whatsoever to limit the *top* speed.

 

[west point]

FTW Map anyone ?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

FTW Map anyone ?

If you look up Fort Worth Amtrak on Google Maps you can clearly see how all the lines come into the station will realize how much easier and faster the TRE is as compared to the back up moves at Tower 55.

 

[VentureForth]

Yay.

Been waiting since 1999 for this. But I moved away from the area 10 years ago.

Sigh.

 

[saxman]

I have it on good accord the the TE will run at 100 mph between CHI and STL.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I have it on good accord the the TE will run at 100 mph between CHI and STL.

Hopefully some year Chris, when the track mess into/out of Chicago and across the river in East STL is fixed!

 

[jis]

Why would it have to wait for all those to happen before it can run 100mph on sections that are cleared for 110mph?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Why would it have to wait for all those to happen before it can run 100mph on sections that are cleared for 110mph?

True, but as we know the Eagles really creep into/ out of CHI and STL which results in Longer run times.

Also if Springfield goes through with their plan to reroute the Eagles and Lincoln Trains , it might help improve the OTP!

And of course the 10,000 lb.Gorilla, UP, has to agree!

 

[jis]

Ultimately there is no substitute for adding tracks (second and third) that were removed when the signaling companies sold the railroads a bill of goods in the name of CTC. Tinkering around in a small stepwise fashion adding a siding here and a siding there just increases the overall cost of the inevitable solution. We are re-learning that one more time between Chicago and St. louis. By the time it is all said and done it will be the most expensive project in the world for raising speed limit by 30mph, and still trains will be unpredictably late because someone tried to save a bit of money by under-designing an interlocking here and a siding there.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Back to the TRE route.

Is anything about allowing any future Amtrak trains tucked into a subsection of a sub-paragraph in the Agreement?

Some Texas folks have organized on behalf of a train Ft Worth-Dallas-Mineola-Longview-Marshall-Shreveport. That route would overlay the Eagle as far as Marshall. It would lead from the MetroPlex thru cities and towns that prospered when the giant East Texas oil field was a thing, then another few miles to a clutch of casinos in Shreveport. It's got the population and the attractions (casino gambling is not legal in Texas).

All that corridor/commuter train would need is money, political support from two governors and two legislatures, spare equipment from Amtrak (Horizons, anyone?), and slots from the host freight railroads. But if all that stuff got lined up, could the corridor train use the TRE route like the Eagle?

For dreaming dreamers, note that a Metroplex-Shreveport corridor could be the first step for a proposed LD train Ft Worth (connecting with the Eagle and the Heartland Flyer)-Dallas-Shreveport-Monroe-Vicksburg-Jackson (connecting with the City of New Orleans)-Meridian (connecting with the Crescent)-Birmingham-Atlanta. And for a regional train Dallas-Shreveport-Alexandria-Baton Rouge-New Orleans (connecting with the CONO, the Crescent, and the Sunset Ltd or Sunset Shuttle. I know these projects would require fast-rising sea levels, or a nuclear temper tantrum in the Middle East oil fields, or another Lesser Depression to provoke a couple of rounds of Stimulus-type funding from Congress. But it could happen. We should be prepared.

 

[RichardK]

Train 21 just went past my office after leaving Union Station in Dallas. It had two engines. Is that standard now for the Eagle?

 

[Lonestar648]

one is standard unless carrying extra cars in the consist (i.e. private cars or charter or going to pick up enroute)

 

[saxman]

I have it on good accord the the TE will run at 100 mph between CHI and STL.

Hopefully some year Chris, when the track mess into/out of Chicago and across the river in East STL is fixed!

It'll run at 100 mph when the line is up to 110 mph. It'll slow down in STL and CHI just as the Lincoln Service will too.

 

[jis]

Each time I read the title of this thread I start wondering why the Texas Eagle would show up at Trenton NJ, but then each time I realize we are talking of a different TRE.

 

[neroden]

Ultimately there is no substitute for adding tracks (second and third) that were removed when the signaling companies sold the railroads a bill of goods in the name of CTC. Tinkering around in a small stepwise fashion adding a siding here and a siding there just increases the overall cost of the inevitable solution. We are re-learning that one more time between Chicago and St. louis. By the time it is all said and done it will be the most expensive project in the world for raising speed limit by 30mph, and still trains will be unpredictably late because someone tried to save a bit of money by under-designing an interlocking here and a siding there.

In Illinois they also tried to speed up the fastest part of the line first, while leaving the slowest sections for later, which is eye-rollingly crazy.
By contrast, the move of the Texas Eagle to Trinity Railway Express track is a *sensible* early action improvement.

 

[neroden]

Back to the TRE route.

Is anything about allowing any future Amtrak trains tucked into a subsection of a sub-paragraph in the Agreement?

Nope. I believe Amtrak is allowed to run the daily Texas Eagle plus two specials each way per year (I may misremember the number of specials). The specials are used to extend the Heartland Flyer to Dallas on special occasions. Any more trains would require a new agreement.
The main holdup from the TRE side was the insurance for Amtrak. That insurance cost would not change by running more trains.

There have been rumors of holdups from the freight haulers who have access rights to the line, but nobody was ever specific about that.

The project I keep watching in Texas is Lone Star Rail, which has been slow-walking for a long time now. If this commuter line were ever built, it could get the Texas Eagle away from freight all the way from San Antonio to Taylor.

 

[tonys96]

Back to the TRE route.

Is anything about allowing any future Amtrak trains tucked into a subsection of a sub-paragraph in the Agreement?

Nope. I believe Amtrak is allowed to run the daily Texas Eagle plus two specials each way per year (I may misremember the number of specials). The specials are used to extend the Heartland Flyer to Dallas on special occasions. Any more trains would require a new agreement.
The main holdup from the TRE side was the insurance for Amtrak. That insurance cost would not change by running more trains.

There have been rumors of holdups from the freight haulers who have access rights to the line, but nobody was ever specific about that.

The project I keep watching in Texas is Lone Star Rail, which has been slow-walking for a long time now. If this commuter line were ever built, it could get the Texas Eagle away from freight all the way from San Antonio to Taylor.

The HSR has significant opposition in the legislature from rural representatives. But, since, as of now, they are not asking for any tax $$$$, it has been allowed to continue being studied. Rural people between Corsicana and Richmond are all up in arms about it cutting through their property. I expect to see opposition from SWA when the HSR gets closer to possible fruition.

 

[jis]

I don't thhink Southwest really depends as critically on their Texas operations any more. So they may not care as much this time around.

They like all otehr airlines prefer passengers on longer legs rather than shorter ones, since the longer legs are financially more lucrative.

 

[jebr]

I don't thhink Southwest really depends as critically on their Texas operations any more. So they may not care as much this time around.

They like all otehr airlines prefer passengers on longer legs rather than shorter ones, since the longer legs are financially more lucrative.

I remember them stating as such in their in-flight magazine (that they had to re-tool after 9/11 to focus on longer flights.) It doesn't surprise me...when people are advised to arrive 90 minutes before their flight, you're looking at a minimum of close to three hours for any flight (90 minutes before take-off + 1 hour in the air + 30 minutes after landing) plus whatever time it takes to get to and from the airport. Even with Precheck, 45 minutes seems like the latest I'd want to arrive at the airport, and that's assuming a smaller airport with a short walk to the gate, so that's still 2 hours even if you speed through the after-landing process.

Frankly, if I can drive somewhere in 4 hours, I'll probably do that over a 3 hour flight + transportation to/from the airport (or bus, or train, depending on a number of variables.) I'm not surprised that Southwest is seeing the same thing and reacting to it appropriately.