Texas Eagle to Begin Using TRE Route FTW-DAL!!

[neroden]

The T says that the insurance company will probably lower the rates after a few years. I think this is general paranoia-by-underwriter. The problem is probably that such insurance policies (insuring a passenger train over a passenger line) are very rare. I bet they're custom-written. There's probably no underwriters who really know what they're doing when it comes to this, and as a result they're overestimating the costs (better for the insurer to make extra money than lose money).

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The T says that the insurance company will probably lower the rates after a few years. I think this is general paranoia-by-underwriter. The problem is probably that such insurance policies (insuring a passenger train over a passenger line) are very rare. I bet they're custom-written. There's probably no underwriters who really know what they're doing when it comes to this, and as a result they're overestimating the costs (better for the insurer to make extra money than lose money).

I would disagree that it's a lack of data. There are over four decades of liability history to work with. How many more decades do they really need?

 

[battalion51]

Has there been any more word on when this shift will take place?

 

[cirdan]

Just wondering. Do The T's own trains have insurance?

Are they assuming an Amtrak train is more likely to be involved in an incident than their own, or that the consequences will be more dire?

Or why can they not just charge what they pay for one of their own trains on to Amtrak?

 

[VentureForth]

Additional info on the agreement to move Amtrak to the TRE. Star Telegram editorial: Amtraks move is an expensive one for the T.

LOL! I just opened this link, and the huge photo of a TRE Bi-Level COACH is captioned as an Amtrak engine!

On another note, I did notice in some article somewhere that I can't find, the switch is hoped to be made by the end of 1Q 2015. However, this probably won't make the new time table that I'm expecting comes out today or next week. So don't know if they are just going to dwell until departure at FTW and perhaps modify the schedule in the Summer, or if they will just add it all to padding.

 

[cirdan]

Additional info on the agreement to move Amtrak to the TRE. Star Telegram editorial: Amtraks move is an expensive one for the T.

LOL! I just opened this link, and the huge photo of a TRE Bi-Level COACH is captioned as an Amtrak engine!

On another note, I did notice in some article somewhere that I can't find, the switch is hoped to be made by the end of 1Q 2015. However, this probably won't make the new time table that I'm expecting comes out today or next week. So don't know if they are just going to dwell until departure at FTW and perhaps modify the schedule in the Summer, or if they will just add it all to padding.

Isn't the dwell at FTW pretty long anyway?

 

[VentureForth]

Yeah - that's why I would love to see the schedule tightend up. However, what would that mean in SAS? Even a LONGER dwell time, unless they can tighten up that schedule, too. And if they do that, you could be looking at a 3 AM arrival into LAX on days it runs with the Sunset.

 

[cirdan]

Yeah - that's why I would love to see the schedule tightend up. However, what would that mean in SAS? Even a LONGER dwell time, unless they can tighten up that schedule, too. And if they do that, you could be looking at a 3 AM arrival into LAX on days it runs with the Sunset.

Maybe it might make more sense to use some of the time gained to add additional stops.

I'm thinking of CentrePort / DFW airport first of all.

 

[VentureForth]

Yes - It certainly wouldn't HURT the schedule by any means. I think they would succeed well in adding a stop there.

 

[afigg]

Yeah - that's why I would love to see the schedule tightend up. However, what would that mean in SAS? Even a LONGER dwell time, unless they can tighten up that schedule, too. And if they do that, you could be looking at a 3 AM arrival into LAX on days it runs with the Sunset.

Maybe it might make more sense to use some of the time gained to add additional stops.
I'm thinking of CentrePort / DFW airport first of all.

Read back to my post #16 from December. The agreement as written precludes adding a stop.

Key points of this Agreement include:

• Amtrak service on the TRE Corridor consists of one eastbound train and one westbound train daily (with no intermediate station stops) and two non-regularly scheduled round trips per year for service to the State Fair of Texas on the weekend of the University of Texas-Oklahoma University football game.

As to when the move will be made, the announcement was for a wide window of the 1st quarter. Which probably means in March.

 

[VentureForth]

Yes, I know that the current agreement precludes any new stops being added. I should have reiterated that in my previous post. However, with the time savings, an additional stop or two perhaps should be negotiated to help reduce excessive dwell times - in FTW and San Antonio. That all being said, the agreement is on the TRE. There's nothing that says Amtrak can't add stops somewhere else along the existing route (though I can't think of any real demand at the moment).

Back to Centreport for a moment - that platform is way too short for Amtrak. Not that a double spot isn't do able. But just another point that someone is/was bound to nitpick about.

 

[Bierboy]

I agree on a significant earlier arrival in SAS in daylight....it was a mess when we arrived there in April, 2013. People not knowing where to go; no taxis in sight, etc....

 

[afigg]

Yes, I know that the current agreement precludes any new stops being added. I should have reiterated that in my previous post. However, with the time savings, an additional stop or two perhaps should be negotiated to help reduce excessive dwell times - in FTW and San Antonio. That all being said, the agreement is on the TRE. There's nothing that says Amtrak can't add stops somewhere else along the existing route (though I can't think of any real demand at the moment).

Acadia Valley, MO is in the works to be added as a stop to the Texas Eagle, sometime in late 2015. It is shown on the schedule as a future stop. As for adding a stop on the TRE, the signed agreement and lack of Sunday service to keep the station open, likely puts off adding a station stop for some years.

 

[VentureForth]

Yes, I know that the current agreement precludes any new stops being added. I should have reiterated that in my previous post. However, with the time savings, an additional stop or two perhaps should be negotiated to help reduce excessive dwell times - in FTW and San Antonio. That all being said, the agreement is on the TRE. There's nothing that says Amtrak can't add stops somewhere else along the existing route (though I can't think of any real demand at the moment).

Acadia Valley, MO is in the works to be added as a stop to the Texas Eagle, sometime in late 2015. It is shown on the schedule as a future stop. As for adding a stop on the TRE, the signed agreement and lack of Sunday service to keep the station open, likely puts off adding a station stop for some years.

I almost agreed with you until the point about the lack of Sunday service. Centreport is an unmanned platform. Whether Amtrak stops there is completely irrelevant as the station doesn't physically "close". Now, they may have to add shuttle service, but I'm sure DFW would be happy to do so. Centreport wouldn't be able to accomodate passengers with checked bags, for sure, but many Amtrak stations don't already.

Frankly, I don't understand why the agreement would disallow Amtrak to add a stop there. It can't be competition - perhaps up to $125 per day in lost revenue? I guess that can add up. And that's if 50 people use it per day between the two trains.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The lack of Sunday Service on TRE is important for FTW, but with DART running from Union Station in Dallas to DFW 7 days a week, there is no need for Amtrak to stop @ Center Point Station ! The fare on #22 is the same to FTW or DAL from SAS and Stations North,so Northbound Eagle pax could just book to DAL and ride DART to DFW to catch flights!

 

[neroden]

Just wondering. Do The T's own trains have insurance?

Nope. They have a state law which allows them to not pay out -- to leave injured people in the lurch with no compensation. Well, they have to pay something out, but they have a very low limit on how much they have to pay out (I looked it up some time ago but I have forgotten it). Amtrak's liability limit under federal law is much higher ($200 million).

 

[neroden]

The T says that the insurance company will probably lower the rates after a few years. I think this is general paranoia-by-underwriter. The problem is probably that such insurance policies (insuring a passenger train over a passenger line) are very rare. I bet they're custom-written. There's probably no underwriters who really know what they're doing when it comes to this, and as a result they're overestimating the costs (better for the insurer to make extra money than lose money).

I would disagree that it's a lack of data. There are over four decades of liability history to work with. How many more decades do they really need?

I said, if you read it carefully, that *there are no underwriters who know what they're doing*. Not that there wasn't data. That there were no underwriters who were used to dealing with the data.

 

[neroden]

The lack of Sunday Service on TRE is important for FTW, but with DART running from Union Station in Dallas to DFW 7 days a week, there is no need for Amtrak to stop @ Center Point Station ! The fare on #22 is the same to FTW or DAL from SAS and Stations North,so Northbound Eagle pax could just book to DAL and ride DART to DFW to catch flights!

What Jim said. Plus, in a few years, the same will be true from the south end: http://www.texrail.com/

It looks like the stars are aligned for TexRail. The federal government has issued the Record of Decision; there is enough funding to complete design and purchase land; agreement has been obtained from the track owners; complete funding is expected from the FTA in early 2016. They're targeting 2018, though 2019 is probably more likely.

At that point, there will be no good reason for Amtrak to stop at Centreport.

 

[VentureForth]

The lack of Sunday Service on TRE is important for FTW, but with DART running from Union Station in Dallas to DFW 7 days a week, there is no need for Amtrak to stop @ Center Point Station ! The fare on #22 is the same to FTW or DAL from SAS and Stations North,so Northbound Eagle pax could just book to DAL and ride DART to DFW to catch flights!

What Jim said. Plus, in a few years, the same will be true from the south end: http://www.texrail.com/
It looks like the stars are aligned for TexRail. The federal government has issued the Record of Decision; there is enough funding to complete design and purchase land; agreement has been obtained from the track owners; complete funding is expected from the FTA in early 2016. They're targeting 2018, though 2019 is probably more likely.

At that point, there will be no good reason for Amtrak to stop at Centreport.

One stop rides have always been an important aspect of ridership. If you are travelling from Marshall, Longview, or Mineola, then would YOU want to get out at Dallas with your bags, switch to the Red/Blue line for one stop, transfer to the orange line, with all your bags, ride 50 minutes on a crowded train to the Northern terminal of DFW where you need to transfer to a shuttle to take you to the Remote South parking area, where you hop on a shuttle that takes you to your terminal.

Or, you could just stay on your nice comfortable long distance train for an additional 30 minutes, then switch to a shuttle that will drop you off at your airline.

Situation (until TexRail) is worse from McGregor and Cleburne from the West. You get to Fort Worth. Ride 30 minutes past Centreport. Then add the transfers mentioned above.

The more I think about it, Amtrak should be paying TRE to expand Centreport with full Amtrak ticketing and baggage service. THIS is what a National long distance railroad should be all about. Connecting communities to other transporation modes. In fact, the only downside that I can think of is that it could be so popular that they would either have to add a coach or risk medium-distance travellers blocking space from full run passengers.

 

[tonys96]

The lack of Sunday Service on TRE is important for FTW, but with DART running from Union Station in Dallas to DFW 7 days a week, there is no need for Amtrak to stop @ Center Point Station ! The fare on #22 is the same to FTW or DAL from SAS and Stations North,so Northbound Eagle pax could just book to DAL and ride DART to DFW to catch flights!

What Jim said. Plus, in a few years, the same will be true from the south end: http://www.texrail.com/ It looks like the stars are aligned for TexRail. The federal government has issued the Record of Decision; there is enough funding to complete design and purchase land; agreement has been obtained from the track owners; complete funding is expected from the FTA in early 2016. They're targeting 2018, though 2019 is probably more likely. At that point, there will be no good reason for Amtrak to stop at Centreport.

One stop rides have always been an important aspect of ridership. If you are travelling from Marshall, Longview, or Mineola, then would YOU want to get out at Dallas with your bags, switch to the Red/Blue line for one stop, transfer to the orange line, with all your bags, ride 50 minutes on a crowded train to the Northern terminal of DFW where you need to transfer to a shuttle to take you to the Remote South parking area, where you hop on a shuttle that takes you to your terminal.Or, you could just stay on your nice comfortable long distance train for an additional 30 minutes, then switch to a shuttle that will drop you off at your airline.Situation (until TexRail) is worse from McGregor and Cleburne from the West. You get to Fort Worth. Ride 30 minutes past Centreport. Then add the transfers mentioned above.The more I think about it, Amtrak should be paying TRE to expand Centreport with full Amtrak ticketing and baggage service. THIS is what a National long distance railroad should be all about. Connecting communities to other transporation modes. In fact, the only downside that I can think of is that it could be so popular that they would either have to add a coach or risk medium-distance travellers blocking space from full run passengers.

Skylink or terminal link vans work well.

 

[neroden]

Centreport's long, 30-minute bus transfer to the airport means it isn't a one-seat ride. If it were that would be very different.

In fact, if you aren't checking luggage, a no-bus trip is now possible with DART -- Amtrak to Dallas, DART to north terminal, in through security, Skylink to correct gate.

https://www.dfwairport.com/skylink/index.php

The majority of travellers will prefer this to the Centreport bus connection.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Second what tony and neroden said!

 

[afigg]

The more I think about it, Amtrak should be paying TRE to expand Centreport with full Amtrak ticketing and baggage service. THIS is what a National long distance railroad should be all about. Connecting communities to other transporation modes. In fact, the only downside that I can think of is that it could be so popular that they would either have to add a coach or risk medium-distance travellers blocking space from full run passengers.

Amtrak is connecting to other transportation systems at Dallas Union Station and in Fort Worth. The question is how many passengers are taking the TE to connect to flights at DFW airport? Probably a few, but enough to justify adding a stop between cities that are not that far apart? The TE is a LD train, so it serves a different market mix than a shorter range multiple daily frequency corridor service.
What are the TRE passenger numbers for Centreport? The Amtrak LD trains don't stop at the Newark and BWI airport stops on the NEC. Both of those offer local transit connection options from the nearest city stop at NWK, BAL, WAS that people can take if their destination is actually the airport.

 

[VentureForth]

Again, if it were a single train transfer in Dallas, it'd be a slightly better scenario, but with two transfers before you even reach skylink, it's a burden.

I agree with you afigg about the purpose of LD trains. But connectivity to airports is paramount for an efficient total transportation solution. Case in point - I think it's sorta silly to run a train from downtown Miami to Orlando International Airport. First of all, the rates and destinations are probably more agreeable to most passengers out of MIA as opposed to MCO. The majority of passengers from MIA would probably prefer to arrive in a part of Orlando served by public transportation - like a connection to Sunrail at the least, rather than end up at the airport with expensive connections (will most "day visitors" rent a car?).

I'm not saying that folks are going to take the Texas Eagle from Chicago or LA or even El Paso or San Antonio to Centreport to get to DFW. But it's not out of line to make as efficient as possible transfer for folks coming in from Longview/Marshall or McGregor and Cleburne. As I said before, the extra hours from DAL to the terminals may not be that much different, but it would sure be a time savings from the West.

 

[battalion51]

The other consideration for adding Centreport in my mind is that it helps you serve the cities in between Ft. Worth and Dallas. It's always been kind of odd to me that the Eagle didn't stop in Arlington. Stopping at Centreport gives you the ability to have a short drive to the train from places like Irving, Grapevine, Arlington, and others. To me it's akin to the Lake Shore stopping at South Station, Back Bay, and Framingham. You could easily make the case that you should run from South Station to Worcester non-stop, but it is more convenient for folks to have options at Framingham and Back Bay, in spite of those stations not having services.