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The Boeing MAX 8 Accidents

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Bob Dylan

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In my expierience some of the worst acting "Sports Fans" are located in our very own Country , especially Raider Nation,Iggle Fanatics, the Cubs Bleacher Bums and the Washington Football Team Fans.😉

Overall though, Soccer Fans as a Group take the Prize for the Wildest and Craziest Sports Worshipers.
 
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caravanman

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What do you do when your attempt at a better seat fails? I used to have a system that made modern coach workable but even after studying seat maps and consulting seat guru I would sometimes end up in a modified or unpublished floor plan that took me out of a bulkhead or exit row and threw me into a knee-crushing seat instead. Once you're on board it's too late to fix anything and even a zero dollar airfare is not worth ten hours of sleepless suffering to me.
Well, I can't sleep on a plane anyway, but I have always been able to sit in the seat that I have reserved. Everyone has different needs for their comfort, there is nothing wrong with paying extra for guaranteed legroom in business, etc. Approaching age 70, I am more drawn towards paying for a level of comfort that I would have thought unnecessary a few years ago. I can still endure a cramped seat on a budget airline for a few hours if needs be, rather than pay top price for a regular airline fare.
 

anumberone

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In my expierience some of the worst acting "Sports Fans" are located in our very own Country , especially Raider Nation,Iggle Fanatics, the Cubs Bleacher Bums and the Washington Football Team Fans.😉

Overall though, Soccer Fans as a Group take the Prize for the Wildest and Craziest Sports Worshipers.
I hope you’re including soccer mom’s and little league parents
 

tgstubbs1

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The news had a report of a MAX flying from Dallas to Tulsa. I didn't hear of any problems with it.
 

Trogdor

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The news had a report of a MAX flying from Dallas to Tulsa. I didn't hear of any problems with it.
Interesting that such a flight would make the news. MAXes have been flying, more or less continuously, since they entered service. Even when the fleet was grounded (for commercial operations) ferry flights and test flights have been occurring regularly across North America (and possibly even the world) since then. Air Canada flew theirs regularly just to keep the pilots current (since they had no other 737s for their pilots to fly). Boeing was still building planes and needed to get them out of Renton so they could make room for more planes being built (many planes probably only made one flight, direct to storage). Other airlines have been flying a few more maintenance flights recently to get the planes to a facility where modifications could be applied.

But I guess the news needs something to talk about when they get bored of the other headlines.
 

jis

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Contrary to popular belief, the 737, even the MAX is an aerodynamically stable plane. There is a corner case where the fedel in the stick is inconsistent with what is required by the FAR. MCAS was a botched up invention to fix that, which if left unfixed would most likely not have ever caused any catastrophic problem, but the rules of the day would have made it impossible to certify the plane without creating an exception, or at least requiring special flight sim training, which Boeing and Southwest in their infinite wisdom in a salute to desire for making more money thought must be avoided. The rest as we say is history. So the fact that a MAX flew safely is not really much of a news for those in the know at least.
 

tgstubbs1

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Interesting that such a flight would make the news. MAXes have been flying, more or less continuously, since they entered service. Even when the fleet was grounded (for commercial operations) ferry flights and test flights have been occurring regularly across North America (and possibly even the world) since then. Air Canada flew theirs regularly just to keep the pilots current (since they had no other 737s for their pilots to fly). Boeing was still building planes and needed to get them out of Renton so they could make room for more planes being built (many planes probably only made one flight, direct to storage). Other airlines have been flying a few more maintenance flights recently to get the planes to a facility where modifications could be applied.

But I guess the news needs something to talk about when they get bored of the other headlines.
Exactly. It's their public 'unveiling' .
 

tgstubbs1

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Contrary to popular belief, the 737, even the MAX is an aerodynamically stable plane. There is a corner case where the fedel in the stick is inconsistent with what is required by the FAR. MCAS was a botched up invention to fix that, which if left unfixed would most likely not have ever caused any catastrophic problem, but the rules of the day would have made it impossible to certify the plane without creating an exception, or at least requiring special flight sim training, which Boeing and Southwest in their infinite wisdom in a salute to desire for making more money thought must be avoided. The rest as we say is history. So the fact that a MAX flew safely is not really much of a news for those in the know at least.
There was a training accident in a DC-3 in Aurora, OR a few years ago. They were at a relatively high altitude for the apparently tricky stall simulation and even the instructor couldn't recover.

I guess the Bonanza with the ruddervator tail needed 'special' handling.
 

WWW

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This just in American Airlines to resume service from New York (presume LaGuardia) to Florida (Miami) with the 737 MAX equipment.
Only that route for now - other cities coming online as maintenance and training are finished for the rest of the fleet.
 

HenryK

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News broke yesterday that Ryanair, the Irish budget airline, had contracted to buy 75 new 737 Maxes.
 

jis

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According to Flightglobal, Boeing does not plan to drop the MAX moniker. So the MAXes will continue to be called MAX.

This is the first MAX to be issued an Airworthiness Certificate after the ungrounding...

 

Devil's Advocate

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Well, I can't sleep on a plane anyway, but I have always been able to sit in the seat that I have reserved. Everyone has different needs for their comfort, there is nothing wrong with paying extra for guaranteed legroom in business, etc. Approaching age 70, I am more drawn towards paying for a level of comfort that I would have thought unnecessary a few years ago. I can still endure a cramped seat on a budget airline for a few hours if needs be, rather than pay top price for a regular airline fare.
I used to sleep in coach just fine. Many flights I would fall asleep after lift off and wake up just before (or during) landing. I was a different person and coach was a different experience back then. In some ways I wish things had stayed the same. It's nice to travel in first or business but other than a larger seat and a little more room it's honestly not that different from coach service on many routes. With the rise of bus service airlines like Ryanair and the destructive force of a worldwide pandemic I expect the last remnants of full service flying will soon be swept into the history books.

According to Flightglobal, Boeing does not plan to drop the MAX moniker. So the MAXes will continue to be called MAX.
Boeing could rename it the BOOMCRASHSIZZLE and most of us would still fly it. 787's were repeatedly catching fire for preventable reasons and we still flew them as if nothing happened. These days we only fear conspiracies with no evidence to support them. When the evidence is obvious we ignore it. To be clear I do not think the re-MAX is likely to be especially dangerous, but I do expect Boeing and the FAA to certify more needlessly defective aircraft in the future. That is why I will personally choose to avoid the MAX whenever possible. Not for what it is but for what it represents.
 
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jis

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News broke yesterday that Ryanair, the Irish budget airline, had contracted to buy 75 new 737 Maxes.
Those are the 737 MAX8-200s, the single class higher capacity MAX8s specially requested by Ryanair.

Those who wished to have a 737MAX with capacity greater than 200 in multi-class configuration, to use as a replacement for the 757s have the MAX10. For example, United has converted 100 of their MAX9 orders to MAX10. That is in addition to a cartload of A321XLR for international 757 replacement, supposedly. MAX10s are a little short on range for such missions.
 

Devil's Advocate

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From Doug Parker's spin account above...

In our industry, safety comes above all else.
Which is to say it comes fourth behind schedules, profits, and pride.

When that safety is in question, we band together to improve.
More like you hide the defects, lie to the regulators, and punish the whistle blowers.

Now, after the most extensive safety review in commercial aviation history, the 737 MAX has been recertified.
Right after the MAX received the least extensive initial safety review in modern commercial aviation history?
 

jiml

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From Doug Parker's spin account above...


Which is to say it comes fourth behind schedules, profits, and pride.


More like you hide the defects, lie to the regulators, and punish the whistle blowers.


Right after the MAX received the least extensive initial safety review in modern commercial aviation history?
That's what makes...
c6723fe2ec9cb0d5a6b77e9aa542bc3d.jpg
:D
 

B757Guy

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My fiancé is a captain on the 737 MAX, and I had the opportunity to see first hand the changes made to both the simulator training, along with the aircraft itself. My airline also operates the MAX. Given the changes Boeing made, along with the updated training, I would not hesitate to fly on the MAX.
 

jis

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My fiancé is a captain on the 737 MAX, and I had the opportunity to see first hand the changes made to both the simulator training, along with the aircraft itself. My airline also operates the MAX. Given the changes Boeing made, along with the updated training, I would not hesitate to fly on the MAX.
I would have no problem flying on the MAX as re-certified after the changes. Though I still like the A3xx series planes better.
 

Devil's Advocate

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November 23, 2020:
In fact, my fiancé [...] feels that the changes Boeing has made, along with the training she has received, that the aircraft is a safe as any other in the fleet to fly. Her sentiments have been echoed by a few of my friends at my airline, who also feel that the MAX is perfectly safe.
January 8, 2021:
My fiancé is a captain on the 737 MAX, and I had the opportunity to see first hand the changes made to both the simulator training, along with the aircraft itself. My airline also operates the MAX. Given the changes Boeing made, along with the updated training, I would not hesitate to fly on the MAX.
How many times have you repeated this same story and did it come from a pamphlet or something? If changing hearts and minds is so important maybe you could tell us which steps Boeing took to prevent their staff from deceiving regulators? Or when Boeing brass finally agreed that safety testing and analysis should be handled by independent resources? Or how they've ensured that future whistleblowers are no longer ignored and blacklisted?
 
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PVD

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Boeing has reached a 2.5 billion dollar settlement involving criminal conspiracy charges...a settlement was to be expected, no way the gov't would want major criminal convictions, that could trigger a bar on most gov't contracts which just was not going to happen.
 

Bob Dylan

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My fiancé is a captain on the 737 MAX, and I had the opportunity to see first hand the changes made to both the simulator training, along with the aircraft itself. My airline also operates the MAX. Given the changes Boeing made, along with the updated training, I would not hesitate to fly on the MAX.
Reassuring words from Pros, thanks!
 

Dakota 400

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no way the gov't would want major criminal convictions
As a Boeing shareholder, while I know some have lost their positions with the Company, I believe that some of those responsible for the poor decisions and then the attempted cover-up that followed deserve time in prison.

No surprise at the fine, but that is coming out of the "pockets" of us shareholders. It ought to be coming out of the pockets of the members of the Board of Directors who failed in their duties as far as I am concerned.
 

PVD

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I should clarify that by saying criminal convictions against the corporation. Individuals would be another story. They are the #2 defense contractor in the US, no way the gov't would do something that stops that.
 

Devil's Advocate

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Reassuring words from Pros, thanks!
I'm not reassured by patronizing hearsay that promises safety but explains nothing. Look at my post to see how he regurgitates the same talking points with no new information. What he leaves out is that his fiance's livelihood depends on millions of passengers reembracing the Max to maintain her future income. This specific revision may indeed be safe but the systemic failures that approved hidden flaws and glossed over known defects have yet to be fully resolved.
 
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Bob Dylan

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I'm not reassured by patronizing hearsay that promises safety but explains nothing. Look at my post to see how he regurgitates the same talking points with no new information. What he leaves out is that his fiance's livelihood depends on millions of passengers reembracing the Max to maintain her future income. This specific revision may indeed be safe but the systemic failures that approved hidden flaws and glossed over known defects have yet to be fully resolved.
I'm gonna disagree on this Chris, Airline pilots are known for telling like it is !Remember, Captains have total command over the planes they fly.I doubt that any Sane or Sober Pilot would fly an unsafe Airplane full of people,including themselves

If Chris Wyatt( Saxman), who we all know, says the same thing, will you believe him?
 
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