The Cardinal

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zepherdude

zepherdude

OBS Chief
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
564
Location
Redding California
Everyone boasts on the Cardinal being a wonderful trip and worth the adventure. I believe its crowded, may not get a meal, no sleepers available for September and can't stay in the station all night for a 0645 departure. Is it really a slow boat to China? I would like to take it but, too many issues against it.

Traveling to Chicago for points West. What does everyone think. I have done the Cap Limited and had a great trip, but never the Cardinal. I really dislike the Lake Shore Limited.

Whats the thinking?
 
With a sleeper not being an option on the Cardinal my thinking would be the CL sounds a better option. Even if you are in coach on the CL the ride would be shorter, discounting the ride from NYP to WAS.

I've only ridden the Card eastbound. It was crowded but the food was not as bad as some make it out to be. Of course, the slow boat option in coach would be more of an adventure. :giggle:

Just curious, what are your dislikes of the LSL?
 
Hey Big Iron!

I was never able to sleep, its is very crowded, some of the worst delays on Amtrak were on LSL. It put me in NYC at 0215 with no hotel and none available, even at 300/night. It has a long stop somewhere maybe Toledo or Cleveland. I wandered Times Square and stayed in a fleabag hotel that had a bare light bulb in the ceiling. It is always a regular crew and conductors. I always see them when I travel that train. But not for a while.
 
Was NYP your final destination on Amtrak? If not, why did Amtrak not provide a hotel? And why did you not stay in the Amtrak waiting area? The station is open 24 hours, and the night was 1/2 over. And that is also why I'm confused regarding your statement of the early departure. Yes, it is not the best place to sleep, but if you have an Amtrak ticket,you can wait in the Amtrak waiting area, which is separated from the rest of NYP.

And the delays are not the fault of Amtrak, but of either CSX or NS. And if the delay was in fact between TOL and CLE, those are NS tracks - and in fact the SAME EXACT tracks used by the CL!
 
zepherdude said:
Hey Big Iron!
I was never able to sleep, its is very crowded, some of the worst delays on Amtrak were on LSL. It put me in NYC at 0215 with no hotel and none available, even at 300/night. It has a long stop somewhere maybe Toledo or Cleveland. I wandered Times Square and stayed in a fleabag hotel that had a bare light bulb in the ceiling. It is always a regular crew and conductors. I always see them when I travel that train. But not for a while.
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Well, you won't have that same problem of arriving in the middle of the night going westbound, and should you miss your connection in Chicago your accommodation issue would presumably be on Amtrak's dime. Having a meal in the new Viewliner 8400 which I believe runs on the LSL would be a treat.

But from taking the Cardinal roommette, I would not recommend it in coach as there's no real social space given the hybrid nature of the 'cafe' car. If you keep checking back on Amtrak.com to get that invaluable private space, which is what worked for me, then I would certainly take the Cardinal (esp. with AGR pts, given the likely high bucket). Cardinal dining meals are mediocre and never 'great.'

I would do the Capitol Ltd if coach, because having the bathrooms downstairs in the superliner equipment is key, ... but if you can get the roommette definitely do the Cardinal if only for the New River gorge.
 
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This is tough for me, the Cardinal is my favorite train, at least by the route (which is lovely). The trouble is with the equipment - no diner, a half lounge car, and so little available sleeping car space. I've ridden it both ways from Culpeper to Chicago, and it just cannot compare to the experience on the Capitol Ltd, which I've done about a half dozen times both in coach and sleeper.

If you have to go coach, I'd suggest you take the Capitol. Superliner equipment is so much better for sleeping, it has a sightseer lounge, and a full diner.

If you are going sleeper, which it appears you are not, it's more a tossup as the Viewliner sleepers at least afford a lovely view. From those, you can really enjoy watching the New River gorge and Virginia go by.

That's my two cents worth. I do have to close by saying that I love the Cardinal because it does have the feel of an old, almost mixed train. You feel as though you are picking your way across the coalfields, stopping in some of the smallest mountain towns and passing some very interesting back yards. It's definitely an experience, different from the High Iron of the B&O/NYC route.

JT
 
the_traveler said:
Was NYP your final destination on Amtrak? If not, why did Amtrak not provide a hotel? And why did you not stay in the Amtrak waiting area? The station is open 24 hours, and the night was 1/2 over. And that is also why I'm confused regarding your statement of the early departure. Yes, it is not the best place to sleep, but if you have an Amtrak ticket,you can wait in the Amtrak waiting area, which is separated from the rest of NYP.
And the delays are not the fault of Amtrak, but of either CSX or NS. And if the delay was in fact between TOL and CLE, those are NS tracks - and in fact the SAME EXACT tracks used by the CL!
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Well, ya know, the fact remains, no matter who's fault it is, the train let me out in NYC at 2 am in the morning. Two Amtrak attendants told me there was nothing that could be done about overnight accommodations. I am just a normal traveler and I was not riding CSX or NS, I was riding Amtrak. So, the blame is Amtrak no matter who owns the track. You can preach to me all you want, I will not ride the LSL.
 
Yea, and furthermore, did i say Amtrak? I think I said the Lake Shore Limited. I don't care who owns the track, don't really care about your argument. I can travel on who I want when I want. This is a stupid debate. I asked about the Cardinal and your turning this all pissy and trying to start I fight. Forget It. have a Great Day!
 
All I said was that you said you would not ride the LSL again because of a delay between TOL and CLE, but you would ride the CL. Between TOL and CLE, both the LSL and the CL use the same tracks. Thus the CL could be delayed on those same tracks too! (Notice I didn't name any railroad.)

In fact, if you don't want delays, I'd advise against the Cardinal. Of the 3, it is the most likely to be delayed!
 
zepherdude said:
Yea, and furthermore, did i say Amtrak? I think I said the Lake Shore Limited. I don't care who owns the track, don't really care about your argument. I can travel on who I want when I want. This is a stupid debate. I asked about the Cardinal and your turning this all pissy and trying to start I fight. Forget It. have a Great Day!
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zepherdude said:
Have a Great Day, Big Dog!
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So you don't care about some facts?

And the_traveler who happens to be a MOD is turning pissy and trying to start a fight? If I were in your shoes I'd re-read your post.
 
Acela150 said:
zepherdude said:
Yea, and furthermore, did i say Amtrak? I think I said the Lake Shore Limited. I don't care who owns the track, don't really care about your argument. I can travel on who I want when I want. This is a stupid debate. I asked about the Cardinal and your turning this all pissy and trying to start I fight. Forget It. have a Great Day!
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zepherdude said:
Have a Great Day, Big Dog!
Click to expand...
So you don't care about some facts?

And the_traveler who happens to be a MOD is turning pissy and trying to start a fight? If I were in your shoes I'd re-read your post.
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Acela150 said:
I've been on this forum for a few years and the membership here has been nothing but kind and helpful. Like many here, the Traveler has spent many miles on the rails on dozens of trains and is sharing his experiences with you. That sounds helpful to me and in no way rude. . I cannot see that he is getting "pissy" as you say or is trying to start a fight. If facts are presented and you don't like them, that's your problem. Fact is that Amtrak does not own the vast majority of track that they operate on. Those tracks are controlled maintained and operated by the hosting freight railroads.. If CSX, NS, CN or BNSF decide to do trackwork or move a slow freight in front of the train. there is nothing that Amtrak can do about it. If a freight train breaks down or derails in front of an Amtrak train an unexpected incident can cause big delays and in rare cases, the entire train may be put on a bus to their final destination. You asked about the Cardinal and people volunteered info about it. If you don't like the replies then submit a request to the site owner and request a refund!
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Zepherdude is making a point that the rail fans here refuse to understand.

It has nothing to do with who owns the track.

If you're a regular, every day, normal train traveler and not a train fanatic, it never will.

Do you really think that people who are delayed or stuck on a train care about who owns the track?

They bought a ticket from Amtrak.

They gave their money to Amtrak and expected carriage in a somewhat timely manner.

Besides, rail fans, NO ONE CARES WHO OWNS THE TRACK.

Amtrak dropped the ball on his trip and he has every right to be angry about it.

Dropped in NYC in the middle of the night and 'sorry, we can't help you?'

Someone not as savvy could have been put in a precarious situation through no fault of their own

Unacceptable.

This is what he said and his point is more than valid:

Well, ya know, the fact remains, no matter who's fault it is, the train let me out in NYC at 2 am in the morning

Two Amtrak attendants told me there was nothing that could be done about overnight accommodations.

I am just a normal traveler and I was not riding CSX or NS,

I was riding Amtrak.
 
I'd completely disagree with that.

Here in DC, VRE and MARC commuters are completely aware that VRE and MARC are at the mercy of CSX.

Just because people believe something doesn't make it right.
 
Alexandria Nick said:
I'd completely disagree with that.
Here in DC, VRE and MARC commuters are completely aware that VRE and MARC are at the mercy of CSX.

Just because people believe something doesn't make it right.
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Seriously, what are you talking about?

Zepherdude's post was about Amtrak LD trains, not commuter trains in DC.

Believe what?

Believe, perhaps, that when you pay Amtrak for a ticket on an Amtrak train that you're taking Amtrak?

What?!?!?

Again, the average, every day traveler does not care and, more than likely, does not know that Amtrak doesn't own the tracks.

Thanks to AU, I myself know but most people that I've traveled with on trains do not and that's what I base my statement on.

The sheer number of complaints about Amtrak should be more than enough proof of this.

If it's important for every passenger to *know* who owns the tracks that their train will be traveling on then Amtrak needs to have a disclaimer and/or agreement that must be checked or signed before you can buy a ticket.
 
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No we get his point, he's just wrong.

If he was making a same day connection at NYP he would have been provided a room. If he wasn't, he should have had a room anyways. What would he have done if the train had been on time?
 
Ryan said:
No we get his point, he's just wrong.
If he was making a same day connection at NYP he would have been provided a room. If he wasn't, he should have had a room anyways. What would he have done if the train had been on time?
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Ryan, f that was the case, then you are definitely right.

But... I didn't read that originally and still don't see it stated after revisiting the posts.

He never stated his final destination so I assumed he missed a connection.

That said, I still stand by my other statements in regard to track ownership and the average traveler.
 
The average traveled shouldn't be required to know who owns the track, I agree.

But if something goes south and CSX closes the tracks, blaming Amtrak doesn't do a bit of good. Amtrak does provide the compensation where required regardless of who is at fault for the delay. But at the end of the day "I didn't have a place to stay because my train was late" doesn't make sense (unless there's more to the story).

Digging your heels in and getting argumentative when given the correct information doesn't help the matter either.
 
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