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Bob Dylan

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Been meaning to ask: whatever happened to the scheme to convert the old Post Office next to NYP into a rail station for Amtrak?I remember in 2004 when I was in NY during the Republican Convention(the trains were stopping in Newark and busses brought the pax into NY)there was lots of talk and excitement about getting it done and naming it after the late Senator Daniel Patrick Monahan?Perhaps Alan or another New Yorker have something on this?(no I wasnt attending the convention,Im a real Texan! :lol: )
 
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Acela150

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I was actually thinking about that a few weeks ago!

BTW: E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!! We have a theme song unlike those cowgirls.

Stephen
 

NECRider

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I thought I read a few months ago about adding tunnels from New Jersey into Penn, I think they're going to renovate the station as well. Correct me if i'm wrong, though...
 

wayman

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I was actually thinking about that a few weeks ago!
BTW: E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!! We have a theme song unlike those cowgirls.

Stephen
Well since this turned into a football thread GO DOLPHINS!!! Sorry I had to do it.
I feel sad for all the Titans, Packers, Cardinals, Jets, and Giants fans here, because I believe they are the only NFL teams without Amtrak stations in their home city. (My ardent-Giants-fan friend makes it quite clear to everyone who listens that the Giants (and Jets) play in East Rutherford, NJ, and not New York to the same extent that we Amtrak fans make the distinction between Phoenix and Maricopa!)
 
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cpamtfan

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The current plan is NJ Transit going to a new terminal underneath/near the current Penn to clear up space for Amtrak. They've already had the groundbreaking for the tunnels, but they will have nothing to do with Amtrak.

Other work they are planning on doing is expanding the # of tracks between the end of the Hudson tunnels and near Newark.

I don't think a new NYP will be up in the next few years, but overhauls could be made when/if NJ Transit moves down. Patrick Moynohan (I think) had alot to do with trying to get the new Penn into the Farley Building (post office) across the street. He died a few years ago and if a new station is ever built, his name will be in the station name.

Thats as much as I know, and I hope it helps a little :) .

PS (Go J-E-T-S, JETS! JETS! JETS! :cool: )
 

Bob Dylan

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Thanks for the update!Since its not a Sports stadium it means it might get built by the year 3,000!LOL

Im a Cowboy fan but anyone except the Giants or Eagles,even the Dead skins if the boys cant pull it off!!!
 
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jmbgeg

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Been meaning to ask: whatever happened to the scheme to convert the old Post Office next to NYP into a rail station for Amtrak?I remember in 2004 when I was in NY during the Republican Convention(the trains were stopping in Newark and busses brought the pax into NY)there was lots of talk and excitement about getting it done and naming it after the late Senator Daniel Patrick Monahan?Perhaps Alan or another New Yorker have something on this?(no I wasnt attending the convention,Im a real Texan! :lol: )
I have no experience going into NYP, though a NYC trip is in my plans. Is it LD Amtrak passenger and cab friendly or am I sensing the need for something better?
 
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Bob Dylan

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I was actually thinking about that a few weeks ago!
BTW: E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!! We have a theme song unlike those cowgirls.

Stephen
Well since this turned into a football thread GO DOLPHINS!!! Sorry I had to do it.
I feel sad for all the Titans, Packers, Cardinals, Jets, and Giants fans here, because I believe they are the only NFL teams without Amtrak stations in their home city. (My ardent-Giants-fan friend makes it quite clear to everyone who listens that the Giants (and Jets) play in East Rutherford, NJ, and not New York to the same extent that we Amtrak fans make the distinction between Phoenix and Maricopa!)
Sad to say the Cowboys dont have an Amtrak station in the city their new palace is located in since they play in Arlington!!Others might say that Oakland has a station but no NFL team,ditto Atlanta,Detroit,Cleveland,Cinnci,Chicago,Twin Cities etc. etc. :lol:
 

jmbgeg

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I was actually thinking about that a few weeks ago!
BTW: E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!! We have a theme song unlike those cowgirls.

Stephen
Well since this turned into a football thread GO DOLPHINS!!! Sorry I had to do it.
I feel sad for all the Titans, Packers, Cardinals, Jets, and Giants fans here, because I believe they are the only NFL teams without Amtrak stations in their home city. (My ardent-Giants-fan friend makes it quite clear to everyone who listens that the Giants (and Jets) play in East Rutherford, NJ, and not New York to the same extent that we Amtrak fans make the distinction between Phoenix and Maricopa!)
Sad to say the Cowboys dont have an Amtrak station in the city their new palace is located in since they play in Arlington!!Others might say that Oakland has a station but no NFL team,ditto Atlanta,Detroit,Cleveland,Cinnci,Chicago,Twin Cities etc. etc. :lol:
Though you are talking Amtrak stations in stadium proximity, correct? Oakland, e.g. has Emeryville nearby.

Of course it is hard to get closer than King Street Station in Seattle to the Seahawks Stadium.
 

Green Maned Lion

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The current plan is NJ Transit going to a new terminal underneath/near the current Penn to clear up space for Amtrak. ...

Other work they are planning on doing is expanding the # of tracks between the end of the Hudson tunnels and near Newark.
No. No no no.

NJ Transit is constructing a new ROW alongside Amtrak's, IIRC diverging at Secaucus Junction. It involves replacing Portal Bridge with a pair of new bridges, one much higher and fixed, one slightly higher and movable, but to be moved less often. One of them is NJTs, and the other is Amtrak's- although I forget which.

The new NJT right of way will divert 2 trains an hour during peak periods from New York Penn Station as it currently exists to a new terminal slightly removed from the current Penn Station to be called "New York Penn Station Expansion". Those two slots go to Amtrak. MidTOWN Direct trains get directed, or as Dave Allen puts it, "evicted", from NYP, to be replaced with more NEC and NJCL Long Branch trains, as well as Raritan Valley Line trains.

An additional 22 trains an hour, as well as the other two, supposedly (I personally don't think it can handle that many, but that's just me), - primarily Bay Head express trains, MidTOWN Direct trains, Express trains from west of Dover, Pascack (I think), and Main/Bergen trains- will be routed via the new right-of-way to the "deep-cavern" NYPSE.

Monyhan will not be built under this plan- there is no need for it other than to erect a monument to another man's ego- in this case the late Senator Monyhan. Basically, it would be paid for by Amtrak- at huge expense - to the benefit of NJ Transit (who isn't interested in abandoning their newly built concourse) and Long Island Rail Road who also has a pretty decent concourse- and is in the process of building another station of their own under Grand Central Terminal. It'll be built if somebody decides to gift it to Amtrak.

Ok, so Penn Station is ugly. Ok, so its not impressive. Ok, so it has capacity problems. But it does work- and in any case, Monyhan is more about moving the existing platforms a little further west and building a grand ediface over them than any meaningful capacity improvement.
 

GG-1

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I have no experience going into NYP, though a NYC trip is in my plans. Is it LD Amtrak passenger and cab friendly or am I sensing the need for something better?
Aloha

It has been a loooong time since I spent much time in NY Penn Station. The original Station was beautiful and designed for lots of people. The Farley building behind it had excellent access to the tracks for mail. When the decision to tear down the station and build Madison Square Garden above the tracks was an incredible feat of construction to leave such good access to the trains while destroying the beauty of the place. Now you have a major transportation center and a major Sports/Entertainment facility in about the same place.

Considering the choices about where you want and can go it is pretty good, with no more issues of safety than any other busy city location.

The Old Post Office, Farley building, just a way to keep some of the History and grandeur in that part of NY.
 

railiner

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Regarding mail access to the platforms....while I believe the overhead conveyor system is mostly gone, there are still freight elevators from the post office down to the Diagonal Platform where mail cages are loaded into baggage cars.
 

Green Maned Lion

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Regarding mail access to the platforms....while I believe the overhead conveyor system is mostly gone, there are still freight elevators from the post office down to the Diagonal Platform where mail cages are loaded into baggage cars.
Past tense- were loaded. Amtrak does not handle mail anymore.
 

the_traveler

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I feel sad for all the Titans, Packers, Cardinals, Jets, and Giants fans here, because I believe they are the only NFL teams without Amtrak stations in their home city.
You can also add NE. Although the Pats are considered a Boston team, they play in Foxboro, which is half way between Boston and Providence. (In fact, Providence may even be closer.) There is no Amtrak service to their home city - or within 30-40 miles!
 

stntylr

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I was actually thinking about that a few weeks ago!
BTW: E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!! We have a theme song unlike those cowgirls.

Stephen
Well since this turned into a football thread GO DOLPHINS!!! Sorry I had to do it.
I feel sad for all the Titans, Packers, Cardinals, Jets, and Giants fans here, because I believe they are the only NFL teams without Amtrak stations in their home city. (My ardent-Giants-fan friend makes it quite clear to everyone who listens that the Giants (and Jets) play in East Rutherford, NJ, and not New York to the same extent that we Amtrak fans make the distinction between Phoenix and Maricopa!)
Sad to say the Cowboys dont have an Amtrak station in the city their new palace is located in since they play in Arlington!!Others might say that Oakland has a station but no NFL team,ditto Atlanta,Detroit,Cleveland,Cinnci,Chicago,Twin Cities etc. etc. :lol:
The Texas Eagle does pass right by Cowboys Stadium. Of course Jerry Jones has made sure no train of any type stops in Arlington so he can collect the 40 dollar parking fee from everyone.
 

DET63

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I was actually thinking about that a few weeks ago!
BTW: E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!! We have a theme song unlike those cowgirls.

Stephen
Well since this turned into a football thread GO DOLPHINS!!! Sorry I had to do it.
I feel sad for all the Titans, Packers, Cardinals, Jets, and Giants fans here, because I believe they are the only NFL teams without Amtrak stations in their home city. (My ardent-Giants-fan friend makes it quite clear to everyone who listens that the Giants (and Jets) play in East Rutherford, NJ, and not New York to the same extent that we Amtrak fans make the distinction between Phoenix and Maricopa!)
Sad to say the Cowboys dont have an Amtrak station in the city their new palace is located in since they play in Arlington!!Others might say that Oakland has a station but no NFL team,ditto Atlanta,Detroit,Cleveland,Cinnci,Chicago,Twin Cities etc. etc. :lol:
Though you are talking Amtrak stations in stadium proximity, correct? Oakland, e.g. has Emeryville nearby.

Of course it is hard to get closer than King Street Station in Seattle to the Seahawks Stadium.
Amtrak stops in Oakland proper. Only the CZ starts and terminates at Emeryville. Not only does Oakland have the Jack London station, but the Capitol Corridor trains also have a stop at Oakland Coliseum. Some weekday trains end, and one begins, there.

As the other poster (I think it was jimhudson) pointed out, however, it is debatable as to whether Oakland really has an NFL team. So long as old Al Davis is kicking, the Raiders seem to be a joke. Every time he gets a good coach, he runs the guy out of town. Bad coaches fare even more poorly, however.

God only knows what would happen if he ran Amtrak!
 
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AlanB

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David Gunn nixed the idea of moving Amtrak to a future Moynihan Station years ago, since Amtrak would have to pay rent if they moved over there. At that point it was offered to the LIRR, which wisely refused the invitation as commuters not only don't linger in a station for very long, but also don't want to have to walk even further to reach the 6th and 7th Avenue subways. At that point it was offered to New Jersey Transit and George Warrington leapt at the opportunity.

I've not heard that NJT has opted out of ever moving to Moynihan if it ever does get built, but at present it doesn't appear that it will ever get built. If it does get built, to my knowledge NJT still has dibs on the station. And it would be foolish for Amtrak to ever consider moving there, unless a deal is worked out whereby they don't have to pay rent.

Additionally it would be foolish for NJT to ever move there. The only logical choice would be Amtrak, as only Amtrak passengers typically linger in the station long enough to actually enjoy or care about what it looks like.
 

jis

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The current plan is NJ Transit going to a new terminal underneath/near the current Penn to clear up space for Amtrak. ...

Other work they are planning on doing is expanding the # of tracks between the end of the Hudson tunnels and near Newark.
No. No no no.

NJ Transit is constructing a new ROW alongside Amtrak's, IIRC diverging at Secaucus Junction. It involves replacing Portal Bridge with a pair of new bridges, one much higher and fixed, one slightly higher and movable, but to be moved less often. One of them is NJTs, and the other is Amtrak's- although I forget which.
NJT's proposed tracks 5 and 6 actually separate out pretty much at Swift Interlocking where the Midtown Directs transfer from the M&E to the NEC today, which is way west of Secaucus Junction (which is Lack, Erie and Allied interlockings) . At present there are no plans to have any crossover to the east of Portal interlocking. There will be a single track crossover at Portal connecting 6 to 2 I believe, but is not really meant for regular use when the entire new Portal structure is in place. The regular use crossovers are all at Swift interlocking. This is from the Portal EIS, which has some pretty detailed track diagrams in it.
 

AAARGH!

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If you are talking about the closest proximity from a NFL stadium to an Amtrak station, I'm think that Cleveland's station is physically closer to the NFL stadium than Seattle's is.

Straight line from the Cleveland Amtrak station building to the stadium is 347 feet. Walking it would be about 1,400 feet (have to go around a fence and cross under a freeway).

Straight line for Seattle is about 650 feet, but walking it is less than Cleveland's as it is a stright shot from the King street station to the stadium, unilke Cleveland's.

I am comparing building to building, not platforms, tracks, etc....

If you are talking about ANY pro stadium, then NYP (MSG), Seattle (Safeco (Baseball) & Football), Cleveland (Brown's Stadium), Denver (Coors) are probably the closest that I can think of.

Sorry for continuing the hijacking of this thread.
 
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blueman271

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The current plan is NJ Transit going to a new terminal underneath/near the current Penn to clear up space for Amtrak. ...

Other work they are planning on doing is expanding the # of tracks between the end of the Hudson tunnels and near Newark.
No. No no no.

NJ Transit is constructing a new ROW alongside Amtrak's, IIRC diverging at Secaucus Junction. It involves replacing Portal Bridge with a pair of new bridges, one much higher and fixed, one slightly higher and movable, but to be moved less often. One of them is NJTs, and the other is Amtrak's- although I forget which.

The new NJT right of way will divert 2 trains an hour during peak periods from New York Penn Station as it currently exists to a new terminal slightly removed from the current Penn Station to be called "New York Penn Station Expansion". Those two slots go to Amtrak. MidTOWN Direct trains get directed, or as Dave Allen puts it, "evicted", from NYP, to be replaced with more NEC and NJCL Long Branch trains, as well as Raritan Valley Line trains.

An additional 22 trains an hour, as well as the other two, supposedly (I personally don't think it can handle that many, but that's just me), - primarily Bay Head express trains, MidTOWN Direct trains, Express trains from west of Dover, Pascack (I think), and Main/Bergen trains- will be routed via the new right-of-way to the "deep-cavern" NYPSE.

Monyhan will not be built under this plan- there is no need for it other than to erect a monument to another man's ego- in this case the late Senator Monyhan. Basically, it would be paid for by Amtrak- at huge expense - to the benefit of NJ Transit (who isn't interested in abandoning their newly built concourse) and Long Island Rail Road who also has a pretty decent concourse- and is in the process of building another station of their own under Grand Central Terminal. It'll be built if somebody decides to gift it to Amtrak.

Ok, so Penn Station is ugly. Ok, so its not impressive. Ok, so it has capacity problems. But it does work- and in any case, Monyhan is more about moving the existing platforms a little further west and building a grand ediface over them than any meaningful capacity improvement.
So are Midtown Direct trains going to be evicted entirely from New York or are they being evicted from NYP and moving over to NYPSE? And how are trains from the non-electrified Pascack, Main-Bergen and Raritan Valley Lines going to make it into the tunnels? Is NJT buying multi-mode engines or are they going to change the law to allow diesels into the tunnels? And finally if all these lines do start running into NY what will become of Seacacus? It would pretty much become useless at that point.
 

tp49

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If you are talking about the closest proximity from a NFL stadium to an Amtrak station, I'm think that Cleveland's station is physically closer to the NFL stadium than Seattle's is.
Straight line from the Cleveland Amtrak station building to the stadium is 347 feet. Walking it would be about 1,400 feet (have to go around a fence and cross under a freeway).

Straight line for Seattle is about 650 feet, but walking it is less than Cleveland's as it is a stright shot from the King street station to the stadium, unilke Cleveland's.

I am comparing building to building, not platforms, tracks, etc....

If you are talking about ANY pro stadium, then NYP (MSG), Seattle (Safeco (Baseball) & Football), Cleveland (Brown's Stadium), Denver (Coors) are probably the closest that I can think of.

Sorry for continuing the hijacking of this thread.
I would think that on both straight line and walking distance the Oakland Colisseum station has both beat. Straight line from the platform to the stadium is no more than 200 feet. Walking would probably be about 450 feet due to the winding ramp and bridge over the tracks.

As for Moynihan station I just don't see it ever being build. They've been talking about building this since at least 1996 when I wrote a press relase for the NY Executive Chamber on it and there's been no progress.
 
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