The Silver Palm

[Viewliner]

Any idea when the earliest time the Silver Palm could return would be?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Amfleet]

Hopefully before the winter travel season to Florida starts. Once the Cardinal goes Super we should the return of the Palm.

 

[Viewliner]

I expected that, but, at the rate we're going how long till the cardinal would go Super?

 

[AlanB]

I expected that, but, at the rate we're going how long till the cardinal would go Super?

I haven't heard any news yet with regard to the Cardinal returning to Superliner cars. I suspect that if Amtrak feels that they have fixed enough of the cars at Beach Grove to restore SL service to the Card, that they will wait until the schedule change, which usually occurs around the end of October. If they haven't restored enough cars at BG, then the Card might well stay with single level cars till next April's schedule change. Given the choice, Amtrak usually prefers to implement changes when they release a new schedule.

However, even if the Card does go back to SL, don't be shocked to see the Palmetto remain on the schedule. Amtrak really doesn't have enough Viewliner sleepers to cover the runs that they have. When the Three Rivers was forced to give up its Heritage sleepers a year ago that cut deeply into Amtrak's reserve of VL sleepers. This meant that up until the changes last spring, and those changes didn’t help the situation either, Amtrak was skating on very thin ice with VL availability. Any trains arriving very late or having more than 2 or 3 cars bad ordered, would create a VL shortage, forcing either a late departure on another train or a cancellation like Amfleet experienced with the Lake Shore this summer. Even now we’ve all seen Miami Joe post a few times saying that they were going nuts trying to get a train out of the yard with no cars available to them.

Now the Cardinal is only using two VL sleepers to maintain it's 3 day a week schedule, one for the eastbound train and one for the westbound train. The K-Card has no sleepers at present. Restoration of the Palm would require 4 VL sleepers. This would mean that Amtrak would have to steal sleepers from either the Star or the Meteor in order to run the Palm. So I for one would not be surprised to see Amtrak simply use the Card's VL's as backups and spares once they are released from service on that route. You might also see them used to beef up service during peak periods. Let me say that I have no inside knowledge that this will be the plan, Amtrak may well decide to restore the Palm, but as I said above I wouldn’t be shocked if they continue to run the Palmetto instead.

 

[Amfleet]

The Sivler Star is running with 3 sleepers now. So how come 1 sleeper from the Silver Star trains be put on the Silver Palm. Before the Meteor always had 3 sleepers, Star 2, and Palm 1.

 

[Viewliner]

For me the 3 sleepers on the Silver Meteor were a new thing, in previous years there were only two in February, this year, However; there were 3 in both February and April. Alan I understand that however unfortunate the Palmetto could be a reality. If the Cardinal has two maybe 2300 and 62091 could be repaired and brought in temporailily as the other two (I wish). Would the diners be an issue also?

 

[Amfleet]

As much as the Cardinal is a scenic train it does not carry that much revenue. I rather see the diners go to the Three Rivers with another sleeper. Then put a sleeper on the Palmetto running it with a Lounge/Cafe. The Cardinal could run with 3 Amfleet II Coaches, and a Cafe with tables on one side and first class seating on the other (for business). For me this is what I think would make the most sense.

 

[Viewliner]

I agree about the Three Rivers getting a Diner, any body think it should be renamed the Broadway Limited if/when it gets a diner. I would like the Silver Palm to be restored in some way shape or form.

 

[Amfleet]

Yes, Amtrak should definetly bring back the Broadway Limited name. And the Silver Palm name should be restored if it gets its sleepers back. As I always say, time will play itself out.

 

[Viewliner]

Maybe when Congress and the President will wake up and realize that if we fund our rail system It will work. Then we could buy 50+ quality Viewliner Sleepers, Some diners, baggage dorms. coaches and lounges, and provide more service and additional service.

I would look into taking the Three Rivers in the future if it had a diner, but I think until that happens I'd use the Lake Shore Limited for the most part.

 

[Amfleet]

If your going to Chicago and doin round trip I would do what I did (and didn't do) and take an Acela Regional to WAS, then Capitol Limited to CHI, and the LSL back east.

 

[AlanB]

I do expect that the Cardinal will indeed return to using Superliner equipment. I doubt very much that it will stay single level past next spring and it may well revert back to Superliners sooner than that. By the way the Cardinal doesn't do that bad with revenue, in fact I think that it's ahead of the Sunset Limited. The Card's real problem is that it's not a daily train. If it ran every day like the Capital, you would see it's ridership go up. Yes it might never do as well as the Capital, which takes the more direct route and get's to Chicago faster, but it does serve some important cities. The problem is the three trips per week make it harder to market it properly.

Next to review the question of what will happen to the Viewliners and the diners from the Card. One, Amtrak may well decide to restore the Palm. Two, they may elect to hold them in reserve and to allow rotations for heavy maintenance. Third, they may use the equipment for the K-Card and stop the combining with the Card on the days that it does run. Fourth and least likely in my mind, they may be used to boost service on another train.

It might also be a good idea to give the diners over to the Three Rivers, as that might boost ridership on that train. This idea of course will depend on what Amtrak decides to do with the Viewliner sleepers. Mind you if Amtrak had proper funding, then the Three Rivers would already have a diner.

By the way even without the diner, the Three Rivers is still worth taking at least once, if only to see the famous Horseshoe Curve. Also if you are in the sleeper you still do get free food, just not the good stuff from the diner. You have to settle for whatever’s in the Amcafe car.

 

[Miami Joe]

Like Alan said, there are not enough V/L's to go around.

Every day, we are short 1 or 2 V/L's on #98, and have to take them from #91. We don't get to work them until 11:00pm or 12:00am. It creates alot of extra work. THen 3rd shift has to steal cars out of #97 for #91, so they are running behind schedule too.

This has been going on since the debut of the Palmetto, and that was supposed to alleviate the current situation. Evidently, something is not working as planned!!!!

B)

 

[Amfleet]

The Silver Palm/Palmetto was going to lose its sleepers anyways before the Auto Train derailment and the Cardinal went single-level. So while equipment was tight before it is unbarebly tight now.

 

[AlanB]

The Silver Palm/Palmetto was going to lose its sleepers anyways before the Auto Train derailment and the Cardinal went single-level.

Amfleet, where did you hear/see that?

I never saw anything about the Palm going without sleepers, until the Superliner equipment shortage brought on by the AT derailment.

 

[Viewliner]

Alan I was at the Orlando station a little over a week after and when I picked up a timetable it showed it as the Palmetto (w/o sleepers). I'll try to find a news story about it.

 

[Amfleet]

I remeber the whole post about it on the old forum. It was my first post the "The Silver Palm Mystery" in which I stated Amtrak's website was showing the Silver Palm with Business Class, no Diner, and no Sleeper. It was at the begining of April so I think the Palmetto idea was definetly in place before the AT derailment.

 

[AlanB]

I recall that thread too, but I believe that it came after the Auto Train Derailment and not before.

 

[Amfleet]

No, I remember that I joined the forums at the end of March and I had posted that thread as a "Guest" before I was a user. I also remeber because I was booking my Silver Meteor trip at the end of March notcing the change.

 

[Viewliner]

Click here for a chached version (yes you can read it if you click the link) of page 1 of the Silver Palm Mystery which the first post is from March 26, when the Auto Train Derailed April 18, I remember the derailment date becaust thats when I left for Florida on the Silver Meteor. Thus the change was intened before the Auto Train Derailment.

 

[Amfleet]

Frozen in time. That post was indeed made by me.

 

[AlanB]

I stand corrected, thanks for that link Viewliner.

Note though that the change on the Palm was still due to the shortage of Superliner Sleepers. Amtrak wanted the K-Card's sleepers for the Zephyr and felt that it was more important to have sleeepers on the K-Card as opposed to the Palm. Since they are trying to grow the business on the K-Card, I suppose that this made some sense.

Amfleet, you've only been around the board since last March? Boy I could have sworn that it was much longer than that.

 

[Amfleet]

So could I. I've gained a lot of knowledge about Amtrak I can tell you that. B)

 

[Viewliner]

I stand corrected, thanks for that link Viewliner.
Note though that the change on the Palm was still due to the shortage of Superliner Sleepers. Amtrak wanted the K-Card's sleepers for the Zephyr and felt that it was more important to have sleeepers on the K-Card as opposed to the Palm. Since they are trying to grow the business on the K-Card, I suppose that this made some sense.

Amfleet, you've only been around the board since last March? Boy I could have sworn that it was much longer than that.

It seems like he's been here forever. The google search is a good way to access some of the old posts, but you have to click "cached" otherwise you get the forums are down for maintenence. The Superliner shortage is indeed the reason why we still don't have the Silver Palm. The Auto Train was a harmful blow to the system along with deferring maintenence. The Capital Limiteds derailment wasn't as severe as the Auto Train, but it didn't help either. I can't wait until we can get our Silver Palm back. Fortunately the Viewliners have avoided a major derailment, the closest we were to a wreck was the Silver Meteor in South Carolina.

I too have gained my Amtrak knowledge since I've starting posting in the forums, which was in February 2001 (I think).

 

[AlanB]

I too have gained my Amtrak knowledge since I've starting posting in the forums, which was in February 2001 (I think).

Well according to that cached post that you dug up, you joined in March 2001.