Thoughts on CZ/CZ vs CZ/CS

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crescent2

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Hi again,

I'm posting this in the regular forum, because the question involves the actual train trips, even though AGR is involved.

My CZ bedroom trip wb from Denver is on hold, and in the meantime, I've managed to transfer/accumulate/buy over 50,000 AGR points so far. (More than I thought I could!) I have not yet bought any AGR points in 2013. My purpose for acquiring these was the CZ trip, but I don't have to use them all on it. By now you know I am a fan of the Crescent, which is the only reasonably close train, so I could use leftover points later.

As you probably recall, I (or we, if sis-in-law joins me) am not trying to get from specific points A to B, but simply want to enjoy the mountain scenery and train ride on the CZ. I'd also considered going sb on CS (roomette) for the coastal scenery while I'm out there. Now I'm wondering if there would be more bang for the buck so to speak if we did a round trip on the CZ instead. In that case, we could also get roundtrip airline tix ATL/DEN/ATL, but I don't know if that's cheaper than separate airline tickets for different city pairs, as I've always flown round-trip and haven't looked at airline tix yet.

We would love to see the coastal scenery, but we are not too keen on spending the night in LA and flying out the next day for some reason.

If we transfer to the CS, we're still leaning toward overnighting in Davis, and then in LA, but if we decided to go roundtrip CZ instead, we might, or not, prefer to stay in San Francisco a couple of nights. We don't plan on exploring any city very much.

I/we want to keep the trip reasonably uncomplicated, not too expensive, and of fairly short duration. To do CZ/CS/CS/CZ, or even CZ/CS/SL (could visit relatives in AZ), would be great in theory, but just too long timewise and with too many hotel overnights.

The original simple CZ plan seems to constantly try to extend and complicate itself! :unsure:

SIL is leaving the research up to me to discuss the details with her later for this trip.

Any strong thoughts on which of the above train trips would be preferable, and on the optimum time of year for them?

The Crescent is the only Amtrak train I've ever taken so I have zero experience with the other trains.

A bonus question for my AU friend Swadian H:

SIL wants to do a guided mystery tour (not in conjunction with the Amtrak trip--I know you're all relieved to not have to hear about that!) Transportation would be a "new or late-model Prevost 102” wide-body H345 motorcoach." I googled it and it doesn't look (?) to be one of the dreaded glasshead types, but please give us your very knowledgeable critique of this B-U-S. :wub: Thanks!
 
I'd suggest trying to include the CS if you are coming all the way out west anyway. If you do the CS southbound I'd suggest doing it closer to the middle of the year so you will have daylight along the coast. The train leaves SLO (if it is ontime) around 3:30pm and arrives to Oxnard around 7pm give or take so that will be the majority of the coastal view between those two points.

If you did the CS to the SL you could combine that as one redemption and avoid the overnight in LA if you wanted to visit your relatives as that is a same-day connection if the SL is running on the day you choose. Just be sure to check ahead of time as it only runs 3-days a week from LA.

As for the overnight, I'd still suggest Davis. Nice smaller city that is walkable. Even if the CS is a bit late you should still be able to get breakfast included in the price of your roomette when you board the CS whereas if you board closer to EMY you won't if the train is running late.

I'm the type that likes to see new sights and not do a round trip of the same thing so I'd vote for CZ to CS (and SL if you would like to visit your relatives).
 
If you're going southbound on the CS, mid year (April-September) would give you the most daylight, as the best coastal scenery is towards the southern portion of the run. (Note that northbound, this section is late morning.) Also, the connection with the SL is the same day/evening as when the CS arrives into LAX!

If you were taking a flight back from LAX (the airport), many flights to the east coast depart overnight. It may be possible to fly home that same evening. There is a shuttle called Fly Away that runs directly (non-stop) from LAX (the train station) to LAX (the airport)! :excl:
 
One more possibility for the LAX end: when Hubby and I want to get to LAX by midday, we like to overnight in San Luis Obispo (SLO). It's an absolutely lovely college town, with reasonable and clean motels (*much* less expensive than Santa Barbara), and a street market (I can't remember which evening, but http://www.visitslo.com/ should be able to fill you in on that). Then there's a morning Surfliner into LAX.

This would allow for the most miles on your redemption, a lovely evening in a beautiful coastal town, more daylight on the coast (no matter what time of year), and a not-too-rushed exit from the LA airport.
 
If you have flexablity on the time of year, try the second or third week of June for maximum daylight hours. If you just want to see the California coast, stay the night in Davis and then get on the Coast Starlight as far as Salinas and take the 3611 bus to Monterey. I would not go all the way to LAX just to see the ocean. In Monterey you can walk on the beach and see a world class aquarium.

To head back to Denver, you will want an Amtrak bus to San Jose to get on a Capitol Corridor train to Sacramento. See the California Railroad Museum in Old Town Sacramento if you get the chance.

I would pay for the short trips on the CS and buses to earn more points instead of wasting them.
 
Thanks, all! Seems like most vote CZ/CS, with one modified CZ/CZ vote. Still liking the overnight in Davis.

San Luis Obispo sounds like another place we'd like a lot (love this forum!), but arriving in LA around 5:00 would wind up making us get into ATL very late, with the different time zones and allowing for a safe connection. SIL and family live in the Atlanta area so we would probably have a family member pick us up at the ATL airport, so that would not be a convenient arrival time. I'm assuming you meant the 784 Surfliner out of SLO.

Catching a late night flight back to ATL might work, though, as the time zone changes would work in our favor that way for a morning arrival. Good to know about the airport shuttle, too.

How reliable is the CS's on-time arrival in LA, and also for seeing the coastal views before dark? It would be pointless to take that portion if we were too late to see anything. (Likewise, somewhat pointless to take the CZ if it detours to miss the Rockies, as that was the original purpose for the trip.) Not liking the iffy factors much.

Will probably have to count visiting the AZ relatives out, as that would turn into about a week itself!

Would a visit to Monterey be a reasonable alternative to the CS coastal views between San Luis Obispo and LA? If I understand correctly, you are suggesting to basically skip most of the CS, but make a quick run to the beach at Monterey instead, and then do the return on the CZ? That's something to consider--thanks. I have seen the Pacific, but not the California coastline.

Swadian, where are you?? I'm curious about the tour bus. :)
 
Actually, we have taken the Pacific Surfliner #774, leaving SLO at 6:55am. We were usually trying to connect to a mid-afternoon train out of LAX. I can't speak for the current reliability of the CS, but the Surfliner has always been right on time when we took it. And a 6:55am to noon-ish schedule is guaranteed to take you along the bluffs above the beaches during the daytime!

I have not been to Monterey, I know that it is gorgeous, but I love the run along the coast between SLO and the LAX metro area.
 
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Thanks, o. pioneer! I thought I'd like a few hours of looking at the coast from a train, too. I'm wondering what would be the earliest "safe" time for a flight from LAX if we took the 774. It still may be hard to get to ATL at a convenient time for whoever picks us up. We'll lose three hours to time zones.

We've got to make up our minds someday! There's so much to see...
 
Instead of spending $$$ on Air Fare, how about paying cash for an Amtrak trip (coach or roomette) to New Orleans plus hotel over night, & catch the #58 New Orleans- Chicago,- #28 Chicago - Portland, #11 Portland -Sacramento, #6 Sacramento - Denver/Chicago, #29 Chicago - Was DC, #19 Was - Atlanta? All train travel past New Orleans to Atlanta in a roomette (meals included) for40 or 50 K points (depending on AGR Agent)???? That's a lot of Bang for the Buck!!!!! :eek: :)

Just a suggestion!

Have Fun

PS - The CS coast run IS nice but, with this route you would get so much more!!!
 
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Since you wanted to see the southern California coast from the train, I'll throw out another idea.

Fly to LAX and take the shuttle to LAX Amtrak. Take the #763 Pacific Surfliner to Santa Barbara.

Enjoy about 18 hours in Santa Barbara. Get on the 6AM #6234 bus to San Jose. You will see lots of coastline from the bus. Take the #532 Capitol Corridor from SJC to either Davis or Sacramento.

Use the AGR points from DAV or SAC on the CZ to Denver. The eastbound and westbound CZ usually meet about 50 miles east of Glenwood Springs.

If you do the CS southbound, the sun will have set before you get to Santa Barbara where the coast turns east to go to LAX.
 
You can see during summer on the southbound CS. There is a bit more coach between SBA and VEC (Ventura). Recently the train averages within an hour of its published schedule southbound until south of SBA where it starts to make up time. Today train 11 is on time (just left SLO about 35 min ago. Foggy day today so not much Ocean to see from train 14. I'd still say NB during winter and either direction during summer when the days are longer If you really would like to see the coast.
 
Monterey is very nice, but you may also want to walk along the shoreline in Pacific Grove and/or Carmel while you are there. There is local bus service that goes to all of these towns and stops at many of the same stops that the Amtrak bus connection from the CS in Salinas stops at.
 
So many options--thanks, guys! The round the country trip sounds fabulous, but we don't want to be gone that long on this trip. And, I'm actually the only train nut. I'm not sure my SIL could take anywhere near that much train in a continuous dose. :)

I have been looking at the suggestion for doing the California segment first, and then going eastbound on the CZ. I run into the same problem re late train/daylight hours, though. The eb CZ is scheduled to reach Denver at 6:38 p.m., not giving much daylight leeway if it's running late for the great scenery just before Denver. Likewise, if the southbound CS is running late, daylight might run out before the coastline north of LA did. Viewing the great scenery is the sole reason for the trip, so it's a big deal to us if we miss any of it.

Summer gives more daylight hours, but then that is also the time of year the CZ may be detoured because of trackwork and miss the Rockies. :(

I like the suggestion to overnight in San Luis Obispo and catch the coastal scenery on the sb Surfliner the next day, but I think that would add an overnight hotel stay, which we are trying to keep to a minimum for both time and $$ reasons. I know we could catch an evening flight back to ATL and not have to overnight in LA, but we'd get into ATL very late and would inconvenience whoever is picking us up there. So, we'd probably still have to overnight in LA before flying home. One additional hotel night might not be a dealbreaker, as the flights and other three hotel nights are the major expenses, but we'd like to avoid it if practical.

I am beginning to think that we are aiming for something that's going to be hard to pull off unless we are lucky re track work and on-time trains, which of course we simply cannot count on and don't want to gamble on. Even though my AGR points keep the train cost to a minimum, with flights from ATL-DEN and LAX-ATL and four hotel nights (Denver, Davis, San Luis Obispo, and Los Angeles), this AGR trip is getting expensive. I might not mind so much for myself (or I might--I haven't even checked on flight costs yet!), but sis-in-law is at least partially humoring me by going, although she does love to travel.

Keeping in mind that missing part of the good scenery because of a CZ detour or late trains/darkness IS a big deal to us, are we trying for too much or setting ourselves up for a costly disappointment?

I do tend to overthink things sometimes, but again, there's no denying the scenery is the ONLY reason for the trip. (Well, for me the train experience, too, but I plan to do "train" from ATL from time to time.) Realistally, should we just simplify back down to the wb CZ and fly home from San Francisco? For those who've done the sb CS or Surfliner, is adding the coastal segment worth the added costs in your opinion? *head spinning* Thanks-
 
I my opinion - YES - the coast is worth the extra day and cost.

And we like SLO because of the reasonable lodging rates, along with the lovely historic ambience (SBA costs will make your head spin, SLO is a different story). If it will help you make a decision, here's where we've stayed in SLO: http://peachtreeinn.com/. It's a little over a mile from the station, I think. You would definitely need a taxi for the morning train (city buses don't start early enough).
 
Did the CS Southbound again today. If you depart San Luis Obispo close to on time you will have daylight leading towards twilight all the way to Santa Barbara. Great view of the water and some larger waves today.

We were delayed about 2 hours just north of Goleta due to an accident but that was after the majority of the scenery. I'd estimate that you would catch a nice sunset just south of Santa Barbara on the Ocean stretch on the way to Ventura/Oxnard.

Unfortunately the train involved in the accident, train 14 did not leave Santa Barbara until well after sunset. A beautiful coastal view well missed with a 6-7 hour delay. Though they may get the view of the Cascades in the daylight which will be a treat to some.
 
Thanks to both of you for the replies!

o.p.: The Peachtree Inn looks promising for SLO if we decide to do that. Are there usually taxis at the SLO station on arrival or do you have to call for one? Also, are there shops or restaurants within easy walking distance (for two "senior" ladies) of the Peachtree? If not, does anyone have another recommendation for a good hotel or inn? Or should we take a taxi to another area of SLO to spend the afternoon?

3313: I know the CS is a LD train and the coastal scenery sb is near its end. What are the chances that it would be running on time for that last stretch? I'm leaning toward overnighting in SLO to be safe (re daylight) and taking the 10:30 a.m. Surfliner to LA, but apparently the Surfliner isn't as "nice" a train as the CS, but someone said it almost always runs on time. How do the experiences/viewing compare on the two?

Also, recent reviews of the Metro Plaza in LA aren't so good. Is there another recommendation for a nice but not swanky hotel near LAUS, or near LAX airport with an airport shuttle? (Or would taking a taxi from LAUS to a hotel near the airport be ridiculously expensive?) Looks like adding the coastal segment is going to add an overnight in LA. Thanks again--
 
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Id say go ahead and spend the night in SLO, then ride the Surfliner to LAX! The consists on the Surfliners vary but most have a Superliner Car in them which is much more comfortable than the Regular Surfliner Cars or the Single Level Horizons which arent that Great! (Small Windows, not as Much Leg Room ,Dingy etc.) Its a Daylight Trip so unless there is Fog or Rain you should have good views of the Ocean as you roll South!

The Direct Bus to the Airport loads @ the back of Union Station (opposite Direction in the Tunnel from the Lobby of Union Station)and is THE WAY to get to the Airport! (Also LAX!)It used to cost $7.50 but with the Recent Price and Tax Hikes in California it probably has gone up but still Lots Cheaper and Easier than a Cab!

As to the Hotel, the Metro Plaza is Fine, its Clean, across the Street from LAX and Philipes and has everything you need for under $100 a night including Breakfast if you don't want to eat @ Philipes! There has been several threads about this on AU and you can also Google up info on LA Hotels close to Union Station, generally Downtown Hotels are Expensive but Deals do get offered when nothing is going on @ Staples Center, the Music Hall etc.
 
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As of recent, train 11 has done fairly well in terms of leaving SLO. But as you know it really just depends on the day and the circumstances. The Surfliner actually doesn't have a 10:30am departure from SLO. The two daily departures are at 6:55am (Train 774) and 1:35pm (1:55pm on weekends and holidays - Train 790/1790). Train 774 will generally be a Surfliner Train set which is a Corridor Style bi-level car. The interior lighting is brighter and it has less recline on the seats, but otherwise is a regular bi-level train.

Train 790/1790 will be a Bi-Level Surfliner set every other day and a single-level Amfleet/Horizon set on alternating days. It just depends on where on the rotation you book.

The departures at 3:50am, 10:30am, 11:20am, 3:40pm, and 7:10pm are actually the coastal bus route from the Bay Area that connects to the Pacific Surfliner in Santa Barbara (with the exception of the 7:10pm bus). The 1:35/1:55pm train in SLO receives passengers from a connecting Coastal Bus from the Bay Area so it may be held if the bus is running a little bit late.

Train 774 would be your best bet if you would like to have the best chance of being on-time. The only reason that train would be delayed was if there was any mechanical issues as that is the only trainset stored in SLO overnight. But there would still be plenty of daylight if that were to happen!

As you know there is always a risk of delay. In order of reliability I'd list the most reliable as the following:

Train 774 at 6:55am

Coastal Buses

Train 790/1790 at 1:35pm/1:55pm

Train 11 at 3:20pm

I know you would rather not take a bus so 774 might be the way to go. The Coast Starlight does have the Sightseer Lounge though which had amazing views yesterday. But all the trains have windows and all use the same trackage over that area. Depending on the time of year the CS may have volunteers from a local railroad society doing narration on the area from San Luis Obispo to Santa Barbara but besides that and the Sightseer Lounge I'd say you just need to think of your priorities in what you are looking for.

I am used to California/Surfliner cars and corridor trains to commute on, but I use things like wi-fi that those trains also have. If on-time performance matters I will lean towards a corridor train. If a relaxing journey with big picture windows and possible narration were a priority I'd choose the CS. Honestly, I usually just choose based on the price mixed in with my personal preferences for the trip.

If you have any particular questions about ride comfort, feel free to ask. But to answer your overall question, if OTP is your primary factor train 774 would provide the best chance for a daylight view, but IME I usually have a daylight view from the other two as well.
 
I can't speak to the availability of taxicabs at SLO, as I've never looked for one. We have friends in the area, who have picked us up from the train. I also know that the Peachtree Inn is less expensive just because it is not in the downtown area. Most of the moderate hotels were on Monterey near the Peachtree, and all the nice restaurants seem to be downtown. It was only about a mile, so I'd guess that taxis are reasonable and the hotel desk can take care of you there.
 
There usually is a cab or two at the station when trains arrive. However you can always check inside the station and call for cab. It is a college town so there are usually plenty around, particulary Friday and Saturday nights! It isn't really a party town though (Santa Barbara has more life to it). It actually is a quite nice area and community and great to look around for the day!
 
Also, recent reviews of the Metro Plaza in LA aren't so good. Is there another recommendation for a nice but not swanky hotel near LAUS, or near LAX airport with an airport shuttle? (Or would taking a taxi from LAUS to a hotel near the airport be ridiculously expensive?) Looks like adding the coastal segment is going to add an overnight in LA. Thanks again--
Personally I wouldn't stay at the Metro Plaza, but that's me.

If you take Jim's suggestion to use the flyaway bus to LAX from the train station, there are probably at least a dozen or more hotels that provide free shuttles to/from the airport. I've stayed at the Hilton Garden Inn which was quite nice IMHO and they provide a shuttle. They're also right next to a light rail station too. And MrFss stayed at the Courtyard right down the block from the HGI. Either would be a decent choice IMHO and better than the Metro Plaza.
 
Thanks, all! Lots of helpful info.

Alan, thanks for 'splaining the timetable. This country girl apparently can't even read it; Atlanta's is so much simpler than SLO's for some strange reason. LOL I thought the little bus icons meant it connected to a bus later. :( I'm still having trouble and don't see the early morning train listed. I'm looking at the system timetable, page 108.

My concern about punctuality is only in reference to having enough daylight to see the coastal views from SLO to near LA. I'd really rather just take the CS all the way to LA, but have concerns that it might run out of daylight. We've just got to decide how safe we want to play it, I guess.

The Hilton Garden Inn sounds good, and I have some HH points left. Any idea what a taxi ride to it might cost, in case we're too tired/hungry/impatient to take the airport bus route to the hotel? Thanks much-
 
I'll put it this way... anytime you take Amtrak there is a risk of delay. Same with planes and automobiles...

Travel is an investment. Both time and money are involved. But travel is also about a little adventure as well. Personally just in reading all your posts I'd suggest staying on the CS all the way though. There are opportunites to meet other travelers both in the SSL and Dining Car (and PPC if you decide on a sleeper) and it has much more of a relaxed feel. Even if you get delayed you should still see at least part of the coast. And if you are you will have other people around to help you pass the time.

A Corridor train is more for getting from point A to B. You will not have that same atmosphere or "vibe" per say as you will on the CS. Given that the purpose of your trip is to enjoy the train and the scenery, the CS is much more of a train for a vacation. The train ride is part of the experience as is that atmosphere that an LD train can provide.

Another thing to think about is if you take the early morning train you are more likely to run into fog. The past few mornings along the coast near Ventura it has been foggy. You could not even see the train tracks from the highway and they are right next to each other! Clouds also change the color of the water and make it look more gray on some days than the light blue and green color it was yesterday.

There are always going to be risks but it is a vacation. What I'm trying to say is if you want to take the CS all the way then take the CS all the way. You can plan for the "perfect" trip but mother nature will always have her way as will untimely rail incidents. There was no way I could have predicted the fatality on the rails and subsiquent delay from yesterday but in the end, everything worked out! Don't overthink what is going to be a wonderful trip! Just go out and enjoy what it has to offer and whatever curve balls may be thrown your way as well. They may lead to a more interesting trip or to seeing something that you normally wouldn't have or thought of!

When you are in good company and are on the train you want to be on you will find that things will fall into place one way or another. :)
 
I think your advice is probably spot on, roadman. We'd surely be a little perturbed if the CS was running right on time on a sunny day and we had to get off of it, spend the night, then catch a commuter-type train in the fog the next day. Simpler is better, most times. I'm just not much of a gambler, but I'm sure we'd enjoy the train ride, regardless. It's just that the only reason for going to LA at all is for those coastal views south of SLO. Thanks!

Now to figure out when there won't likely be track work on the CZ!
 
Yeah... I learned there will always be a "what-if." Like yesterday my day on the CS was great until 10 minutes before my destination when it all fell apart. After an hour I was thinking... if only I got off the train and took the Southbound bus in SLO that eventually passed us as we were stuck... but I would have missed all those coastal views (granted I see them every week or two but they still amaze none the less), hearing stories of other people and their lives, watching people be in awe taking photos out the window... just the experience. Just like when I take the bus and something goes wrong. I think I was trying to avoid delays so I should have taken the train!

It's not the destination, but rather the journey for the most part on the train. If we were in a hurry we wouldn't be taking an LD train cross-country to begin with!

If you would like a back-up plan to feel better consider this:

Train 523 departs Davis at 5:45am. It connects to bus 4790 in San Jose at 9:05am. That bus arrives into SLO at 1:10pm to connect with Train 790 down the coast line at 1:35pm. This is a published schedule and the connections are "guaranteed." If train 11 is really late you can rebook the morning of at the station to that alternative routing. I know you were not interested in multiple connections and buses but if the coast were your priority and 11 were really late that would offer you the option to still see the coast during the daylight hours.

Figure that between Eugene and Davis Train 11 has about 2 hours worth of padding give or take. Train 11 also has about 1 hour worth of padding between Davis and SLO (those numbers are slightly conservative). So figure if the train leaves Eugene more than 3 hours late you will start to encroach upon your daylight viewing hours assuming there are no further delays. Realistically a 2 hour delay can be made up. Sacramento is a major service stop so the train will generally spend at least 30-45 minutes there depending on what needs to be done and how many passengers there are. So an "on-time" arrival to Sacramento (as in at the published time) will mean a late departure.

That is probably too much information as again, I'd suggest sticking with the CS. But at least it provides another option to hopefully put your mind more at ease that you could change your travel plans if the CS is running really behind. :)
 
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