Three dead after passenger train derails near Stonehaven

[Trogdor]

On an off hand thought -
Would it be possible if enough water was flooding the tracks for the train and its cars to hydroplane off the rails ?
Thus flipping some of the cars into the ditch next to the tracks.
Hydroplaning of automobiles on rain swollen roadways happens frequently - even heavy trucks are not immune -
so what about the possibility of this happening to train cars ?

Wheel flanges and the sheer weight of railcars would make hydroplaning essentially impossible.

 

[joelkfla]

There was also a report of ground movement. Perhaps the mud had covered a rail, or a rail had shifted.

 

[west point]

From various reports it may be that Network Rail had not seen "landslips" ( landslides ) before so had not scheduled rail patrols. All of UK has received 30 - 100 % more rain this year than averages. Anyone know if there are any slide detector fences in the UK ?.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

A slide detector is a custom made item, and not a off the shelf item. It simple old technology however. Break the wire, signals drop to red. Determined the high risk areas install a fence run a tight electrical wire thur the fence area. So when the landslide occurs it will push out the fence causing the wire to break. No continuity then signals drop to red. Of course we can use laser and other tools from our modern society. But the old version work quite well. Not perfect but still work well.

Of course with certain Positive Train Control (PTC) you will need a communication device to relay the lost of continuity in the wire to the PTC system.

 

[caravanman]

The latest news from the investigation today, 21 August:

Train was running at 72 MPH at time of derailment...: Explanation of crash site wreckage positions...

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Yes it was a higher speed derailment (72mph). The amount of force experienced to have those railcars land in those positions would be quite high.

Still the stacking of the railcars and the landing position of the lead power car and third coach vs the landing of the coach one and two is intriguing. Nosed dive of the power car with the next couple of coaches flying upward?

The whole report is going to be a interesting read.

 

[jis]

Are these refurbished HSTs still using chain link couplers? Lack of tightlock couplers would probably explain the separation

 

[Seaboard92]

I've never understood why the Europeans have never moved past the chain link couplers. To me it just makes no sense, maybe that's because I grew up with AAR Couplers and have an implicit bias. But it seams to me AAR couplers are safer for the crews, and are much faster to operate. Even Russia has their own version of the AAR Coupler with the SA3. So it baffles me that Europe stubbornly clings to that outdated system.

 

[jis]

I've never understood why the Europeans have never moved past the chain link couplers. To me it just makes no sense, maybe that's because I grew up with AAR Couplers and have an implicit bias. But it seams to me AAR couplers are safer for the crews, and are much faster to operate. Even Russia has their own version of the AAR Coupler with the SA3. So it baffles me that Europe stubbornly clings to that outdated system.

Most of the new rolling stock in Europe are D/EMUs which have fixed drawbar within an unti and Scharfenberg coupler to connect two units together. Some of the new trailer cars are equipped with tightlock couplers specially when they are part of fixed units. These HSTs are just living on borrowed time being refurbished to go another round. At least they replaced the Slam Doors with centrally operated automatic doors.

In India all new freight and passenger stock is AAR like center coupler and the passenger ones are tightlock too. All power untis are equipped with transition couplers that can do both AAR tightlock and chain link. There have been one or two 80mph derailments in India of 24 car long trains of LHB Coaches with remarkably little damage to passengers and the cars themselves with almost no deformation of any of the car bodies involved, and the train pretty much stayed in line, linked together.

 

[caravanman]

To be honest, I am not sure what type of couplings are in use today! When I worked for B.R. one of my trainee driver jobs was to couple the loco to the coaches of passenger trains. We used an adjustable screw link, as shown on the front of this type 47 Brush loco, a type I drove many times.



I was under the impression that newer trains used a "buckeye" coupler, said to be more sturdy?

I am pleased to hear that Indian trains are often safe in a derailment, I hope to ride some again, one day...

 

[greatwestern]

I am certainly no expert, but the only time I have seen screw link couplers on UK mainline trains in many years has been on "specials" using heritage stock.

I believe that HST sets use "buckeye" type couplings (internet search seemed to confirm).

jis commented that HSTs are just living on borrowed time, but from a passenger (my) point of view when I travel on the Uk's Crosscountry services (the far south and southwest through to Scotland), I always try to book on one of their HST programmed services (they only have 5 sets I believe) - so much more comfortable and spacious than their Voyager sets.

 

[jis]

I am certainly no expert, but the only time I have seen screw link couplers on UK mainline trains in many years has been on "specials" using heritage stock.

I believe that HST sets use "buckeye" type couplings (internet search seemed to confirm).

jis commented that HSTs are just living on borrowed time, but from a passenger (my) point of view when I travel on the Uk's Crosscountry services (the far south and southwest through to Scotland), I always try to book on one of their HST programmed services (they only have 5 sets I believe) - so much more comfortable and spacious than their Voyager sets.

Oh don't get me wrong. I love the HSTs, and I also love the way they are being refurbished, but that does not change the fact that they are on borrowed time, and are around mainly because of extreme delays and program management failures to acquire new rolling stock in a timely manner (except perhaps the ScotRail deployment of them, which this was one of). An even more interesting case of similar are the Pacers, which are, the last I heard, still to be found here and there. Also remember how long it took to get those Slam Door South of London third rail suburban stock to finally disappear?