Trains coming back to St Louis Union Station??

[stlouielady]

<I'm not sure if this is the right category for this or not, so please move it if necessary>

I caught a glimpse of this on the local news tonight. Sounds like new investors and management is working on getting trains to stop once again at Union Station. It is a glorious station that deserves trains to stop at it, like in the past. Wondering what that will do to the 'new' recently opened Gateway station just a few blocks away. Guess we'll just wait and see if it happens...

Here is a link to the story, hopefully: http://fox2now.com/2013/06/06/investors-bring-trains-back-to-union-station/

 

[Sactobob]

This was an interesting TV story, but as happens so frequently with the media, it may leave a very false impression with some people. The Union Station tracks will only be used by special charter trains and perhaps to park visiting private railcars. This in no way will impact Amtrak operations at nearby Gateway station.

 

[rusty spike]

When remodeled back in the '80s, those 2 or 3 tracks were left for the purpose of handling private rail cars and special excursions--not ever really hoping that Amtrak would return. I had not realized that program was ended 7 years ago.

I'm sure Amtrak is satisfied where they are now and doubt that Union Station will ever see a scheduled Amtrak train stop there.

 

[AlanB]

Yeah, Amtrak will never move back to that station. Between the investment in the current one, intermodal connections at the current one, and the backup move that would be required, I don't see them ever considering such a move.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Love how the hotel wants to use the station to run special excursion trains.

I've always thought that Michigan Central Station in Detroit should be restored into a hotel, and the New Royal Palm train restored. Ahh....fantasies! At least the folks in St. Louis are on the same page as me.

 

[stlouielady]

I definitely agree that it is unlikely that trains will return on a regular basis. It would be pretty cool to see it used as it was in the past though.

 

[VentureForth]

Hotel officials expect train travel to return within the next few months, and hopefully begin the process of bringing Union Station back to the level of significance it once had.

It was this line that had no real business being included without clarification.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I definitely agree that it is unlikely that trains will return on a regular basis. It would be pretty cool to see it used as it was in the past though.

I totally agree! I was one of the fortunate ones that got to see Union Station in its Heyday when I rode in a Roomette (my first Sleeper Trip!) on the Texas Eagle (with a Dome Car too! )from Texas to St. Louis as a mere Lad! ^_^ Backing up the Hill in the Morning (after Breakfast in the Diner and seeing the Sun Rise over the Mississippi River) into the Large Train Shed, which was filled with Trains, is something I've never forgotten! :wub:

Sad to see the Failed Mall and Hooters that are there now , but the Hotel in the Head House is Nice!

 

[PaulM]

I definitely agree that it is unlikely that trains will return on a regular basis. It would be pretty cool to see it used as it was in the past though.

Yes, I remember when if a train was late, it had to wait out in the yard for a slot to open, sort of like a plane circling the airport. That was in the early to mid 50's. Later in the mid 60's when I was a student at the Hillbilly Institute of Technology, it clearly had seen better days; but there were still trains in every direction.

 

[dlagrua]

There are dozens of large RR stations that are now sitting idle. Louisville, Nashville, Chattanooga, Minneapolis, Detroit Michigan Central, Buffalo, NY, Tallahassee, FL, St Louis (as mentioned) , San Francisco, Cedar Rapids, IA (oops demolished) , Chicago Dearborn, Gary IN., and Boise, ID etc etc. Just goes to show how bad passenger RR travel was allowed to deteriorate in the USA. At one time you could catch a RR in just about any large city or small town. Now the passenger rail system is but a shadow of what it once was. If service was restored at those stations today they would probably see good traffic but once something goes away, its very difficult to get it started again. Rail travel is growing in popularity but it would take years and perhaps a generation to establish a passenger rail system that we once had.

 

[toddinde]

It is not an if, but when, that trains will return to Union Station. The adaptive reuse is a bomb, and the current Gateway Station is too small and out of the way to handle the influx of future travelers. America is going to be a country of 400 million pretty soon, and our population density in the Midwest is getting close to Europe. It is not realistic that those travelers will move by air and car alone. The fact is that Union Station is and will be underutilized as a mall. The "development" under the train shed can be easily relocated or adapted to a return of tracks. In fact, some of the buildings there are probably going to be close to the end of their useful life soon. The stub end nature of the station is not an impediment as almost all new corridor trains will have cabs at either end, and stub end stations are ubiquitous in the rest of the world. The fact is that retooling St. Louis Union into a train station is probably the least costly alternative of any, and also will give the owners of the building a valuable asset instead of a white elephant. There are many other reasons why St. Louis Union Station will see Amtrak and other trains again. Give it five or ten years, and it will happen.

 

[zephyr17]

There are dozens of large RR stations that are now sitting idle. Louisville, Nashville, Chattanooga, Minneapolis, Detroit Michigan Central, Buffalo, NY, Tallahassee, FL, St Louis (as mentioned) , San Francisco, Cedar Rapids, IA (oops demolished) , Chicago Dearborn, Gary IN., and Boise, ID etc etc. Just goes to show how bad passenger RR travel was allowed to deteriorate in the USA. At one time you could catch a RR in just about any large city or small town. Now the passenger rail system is but a shadow of what it once was. If service was restored at those stations today they would probably see good traffic but once something goes away, its very difficult to get it started again. Rail travel is growing in popularity but it would take years and perhaps a generation to establish a passenger rail system that we once had.

What San Francisco station is a "...large RR station...sitting idle"? San Francisco's only actual RR station from the day was SP's Third & Townsend, torn down in the 70s and replaced by the 4th & King commuter station now used by CalTrain. The Ferry Building, arguably a railroad station, since it was used by SP ferries and was the departure/arrival point for any rail passenger not headed for Pennisula or Coast Line points? That isn't sitting idle although it mostly isn't used for transportation purposes now. The first floor of SP Headquarters (65 Market then, 1 Market now) which was designed to be able to be converted into a station at some point but never was?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Old MM]

The Union station mall in St. Louis seems established as a tourist destination/railroad museum, to the point where I'm not sure how they would go about restoring the old station. Then again there is a lot of empty space (I like the effect, but profit margins are all that matters anymore) and a lack of new tenants. I do recommend a visit for rail fans, the plaques decribing what the station was like in 1920 make it easy to envision.

 

[zepherdude]

My dad took me there many times as he loved the old Union Station. We traveled to Miami on the Illinois Central on the City of Miami via Carbondale a couple of times. IC put on another train, the Seminole. I think both had a connect in Jacksonville, via Waycross Georgia, with the FEC. Those were fun family times.

I suspect that will be the only Amtrak engine to grace those unused tracks. If they are lucky to get excursion trains, it would certainly be a plus. The Station was/is a real keeper and work of art. Notice the parking lot, depending on the time of day, there was little traffic.

I wish them well for sure! The site is a destination one for sure, nothing else around to draw traffic from. Cool fountains across the street, called Aloe Plaza. They were down like seven years as STL had no money for repairs.

Do dinner trains work? I was on one in San Antonio many years ago, its long gone. The Texan Dinner Train.

 

[Ispolkom]

The Union station mall in St. Louis seems established as a tourist destination/railroad museum, to the point where I'm not sure how they would go about restoring the old station. Then again there is a lot of empty space (I like the effect, but profit margins are all that matters anymore) and a lack of new tenants. I do recommend a visit for rail fans, the plaques decribing what the station was like in 1920 make it easy to envision.

Oh, yes! Mrs. Ispolkom and I spent a night in the Double Tree hotel that's in the head house, and had a drink in the absolutely gorgeous lobby. The mall itself was a little sad, though, like it was dying on the vine. We're trying to plan a return to St. Louis to stay there again. The opera is just up the street..

 

[Alexandria Nick]

There are dozens of large RR stations that are now sitting idle. Louisville, Nashville, Chattanooga, Minneapolis, Detroit Michigan Central, Buffalo, NY, Tallahassee, FL, St Louis (as mentioned) , San Francisco, Cedar Rapids, IA (oops demolished) , Chicago Dearborn, Gary IN., and Boise, ID etc etc. Just goes to show how bad passenger RR travel was allowed to deteriorate in the USA. At one time you could catch a RR in just about any large city or small town. Now the passenger rail system is but a shadow of what it once was. If service was restored at those stations today they would probably see good traffic but once something goes away, its very difficult to get it started again. Rail travel is growing in popularity but it would take years and perhaps a generation to establish a passenger rail system that we once had.

A bit off the topic, but I'll always think they picked the wrong station in Pittsburgh. The old P&LE station is better in every aspect to the PRR station. Although I'm uncertain if there's any way to get from the CSX line on the Mon to the NS line for the Pennsylvanian (and Broadway Limited and Three Rivers, when those were extant).

 

[zepherdude]

I found this small clipping from another blog called Vintage St. Louis. Just a little Union Station history.......................

1945 A spectacular accident at Union Station. An empty troop train, backing into the station, smashed through a glass partition and plowed 30 feet into the crowded Midway. The train was moving slowly, so everyone was able to get out of the way.

 

[jis]

It is not an if, but when, that trains will return to Union Station. The adaptive reuse is a bomb, and the current Gateway Station is too small and out of the way to handle the influx of future travelers. America is going to be a country of 400 million pretty soon, and our population density in the Midwest is getting close to Europe. It is not realistic that those travelers will move by air and car alone. The fact is that Union Station is and will be underutilized as a mall. The "development" under the train shed can be easily relocated or adapted to a return of tracks. In fact, some of the buildings there are probably going to be close to the end of their useful life soon. The stub end nature of the station is not an impediment as almost all new corridor trains will have cabs at either end, and stub end stations are ubiquitous in the rest of the world. The fact is that retooling St. Louis Union into a train station is probably the least costly alternative of any, and also will give the owners of the building a valuable asset instead of a white elephant. There are many other reasons why St. Louis Union Station will see Amtrak and other trains again. Give it five or ten years, and it will happen.

I somehow find it pretty hard to believe that any reasonable rail operation would revert to a station that requires a backup operation regularly to use it, form a perfectly reasonable run through station which has room for expanding. I think when more capcity is required, what will happen is that the current station will be expanded in place, and there will be no return to the old station location.

 

[railiner]

If the day would come that there would be a substantial increase in passenger trains at Saint Louis, perhaps it would justify a substantial reconstruction of the track level of the station, whereby there might be a way to have at least one or two "thru tracks" for thru trains, or some kind of balloon track...

Not really sure if it would be possible without a very expensive new underground approach, but if so, would allow the historic shed to be preserved as is....

 

[cirdan]

If FEC is building its entire business case on running trains at a loss to drive business to their downtown real estate. Then maybe the owners of St Loouis Union Station want to imitate their model and bring back trains, especially with higher speeds on the Lincoln Service likely to bring in additional patronage. I'm sure Amtrak wouldn't object to a move if the real estate guys picked up the tab.

 

[MikefromCrete]

The current station in St. Louis can be expanded if needed. I doubt if a dinosaur like St. Louis Union Station would ever return to rail service. The current owners can barely keep it open, much less rebuild it for rail service.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

My first time to set foot out of the southeast was to spend a day in Sltouis.This was about 1960

My sister lived in Dallas for a time and the normal way home to Chattanooga was via Memphis and the Southern Railway. This was a 24 hour one night trip I had become used to. But then I decided to be adventurous and went via Stl Louis and L&Ns

Georgian..( a two night trip)

I spent the first part of the day at the then highly acclaimed St Louis Zoo. I am an animal lover.and that was fantastic.The rest of the day was spent at the glorious handsome station. I saw many trains for the first time.Trains like the Penn Texas, Colorado Eagle, Zephyr Rocket, the Abe Lincoln and others. I knew all of these trains existed but to actually see them was neat. I recall the Penn Texas was a classier train than expected. It had more coaches than I expected and it was more of a streamliner than the timetable let on

That whole trip was coach for two nights. I only slept for about two hours and that was on the Georgian between Nashville and Chattanooga .I almost passed out stepping upon the Georgian leaving StLouis. Consider all that walking at the huge zoo plus all those train lenghts at the station.

That was the first station where I saw trains posted as "early". For me,early trains had just been considered on time.

I was completely wired for several hours after getting home. I recall my parents laughing at me after I had put my luggage. in my room and was coming back to see them. They noted that I was hanging on to chairbacks etc trying to get my balances if I needed that at home.

 

[the_traveler]

I missed those days - too young. My first trip to STL was in the mid 70's ( flying ), but I do remember Union Station had many tracks. I really doubt it will again be used as a train station, but I hope it's preserved and not demolished like so many others have been!

 

[railiner]

Trains magazine had a very poignant story sometime back in the '70's, that told of a soldier returning home from a rough tour of duty in Vietnam....

It told of his growing up deep in B&O country I believe somewhere in Maryland or West Virginia, and how it influenced his early life.

He then went on to mention his tough tour in Vietnam. Finally his tour ended, and he told of his long journey home on furlough...

It started with the long flights from Saigon to Travis AFB. Then he decided to take the train instead of flying the rest of the way, to try to have some time to 'decompress' from his Post Traumatic Stress Disorder....

He described his ride across the country on the western railroads. He was kind of oblivious to it all, with the "thousand mile stare" on his face, totally zoned out.

Then he arrived at St. Louis Union Station, and went to board the National Limited for his last lap home. As he passed thru the gate, and was greeted with the sight of the famiiar B&O blue and grey train, the friendly B&O conductor, with the 'Capitol' lapel pins welcoming him aboard, it was then, that his expression changed....tears came to his eyes, and then he broke into a grin and was suddenly feeling very alive and well. For it was in this far outpost of the B&O system that he knew.....he was 'home'......

.

I wish I could find a copy of that story, as my memory can't recall it exactly, but I know I was much moved when reading it......

 

[Bob Dylan]

I think all Vets, especially Vietnam Era Vets, can relate to this Story! I remember my feelings on the way home from Connecticut to Texas when I was Discharged! (It was a Journey on Trains and Greyhound from New London through the South and Southeast to Austin!) Thanks for Posting! :hi: