U.S. Border Patrol in Montana?

[inspiration100]

I never remember this happening before (been about 4 years before I've been on the Builder), but on the Empire Builder a couple weeks ago, a guy in either a green or grey uniform went around saying he was the U.S. Border Patrol and asked us all if we were U.S. Citizens. I'm not exactly sure the point of this? We never crossed into Canada? This man was stationed at Havre, MT. Does this have something to do with drug trafficking? Even if it is, what do they expect, someone to jump up and confess?

 

[amamba]

Apparently they do this on the LSL all the time. I believe they have authority within a certain range of the border to do this. Not that I agree with it, but it is what it is.

 

[wcswingdance]

I rode the Builder in May and had 4 border agents and a dog come through our car. Just walked quickly through. I had my scanner on and could hear them clearing the cars as they walked through and then gave the train an all clear.

 

[inspiration100]

No dog here, but instead they asked EVERY SINGLE person if they were a U.S. Citizen. What would be the point? Even though I am a U.S. Citizen, if I was not a U.S. Citizen, why wouldn't I just say I was anyways? They don't check anything so it seems completely pointless.

 

[EB_OBS]

No dog here, but instead they asked EVERY SINGLE person if they were a U.S. Citizen. What would be the point? Even though I am a U.S. Citizen, if I was not a U.S. Citizen, why wouldn't I just say I was anyways? They don't check anything so it seems completely pointless.

The agent going thru the train asking a lot of ppl if they are US citizens is likely, usually I would imagine, trained in human behavior and is looking more at the person's body language and reactions & eye movements more so than just listening to the answer to his query.

 

[rrdude]

Apparently they do this on the LSL all the time. I believe they have authority within a certain range of the border to do this. Not that I agree with it, but it is what it is.

100 miles from the border, IIRC what Alan B. said, which puts virtually every train Amrtak runs within their authority, considering that the coastline is also considered the border........

 

[guest Jon]

No dog here, but instead they asked EVERY SINGLE person if they were a U.S. Citizen. What would be the point? Even though I am a U.S. Citizen, if I was not a U.S. Citizen, why wouldn't I just say I was anyways? They don't check anything so it seems completely pointless.

The agent going thru the train asking a lot of ppl if they are US citizens is likely, usually I would imagine, trained in human behavior and is looking more at the person's body language and reactions & eye movements more so than just listening to the answer to his query.

Like profiling! :lol:

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Like profiling! :lol:

Which is Illegal.

 

[AlanB]

Apparently they do this on the LSL all the time. I believe they have authority within a certain range of the border to do this. Not that I agree with it, but it is what it is.

100 miles from the border, IIRC what Alan B. said, which puts virtually every train Amrtak runs within their authority, considering that the coastline is also considered the border........

Correct, anytime you are within 100 miles of the border. Be it walking, on a bus, in a car, or on a train; they can stop you and verify that you belong in this country.

And while it doesn't happen on the Builder as much as it does on the LSL, it does happen with some regularity.

 

[AlanB]

No dog here, but instead they asked EVERY SINGLE person if they were a U.S. Citizen. What would be the point? Even though I am a U.S. Citizen, if I was not a U.S. Citizen, why wouldn't I just say I was anyways? They don't check anything so it seems completely pointless.

The agent going thru the train asking a lot of ppl if they are US citizens is likely, usually I would imagine, trained in human behavior and is looking more at the person's body language and reactions & eye movements more so than just listening to the answer to his query.

Like profiling! :lol:

Watching people for well known, visible signs that they aren't telling you the truth is not profiling.

 

[Guest]

No dog here, but instead they asked EVERY SINGLE person if they were a U.S. Citizen. What would be the point? Even though I am a U.S. Citizen, if I was not a U.S. Citizen, why wouldn't I just say I was anyways? They don't check anything so it seems completely pointless.

The agent going thru the train asking a lot of ppl if they are US citizens is likely, usually I would imagine, trained in human behavior and is looking more at the person's body language and reactions & eye movements more so than just listening to the answer to his query.

Like profiling! :lol:

Watching people for well known, visible signs that they aren't telling you the truth is not profiling.

I doubt the border patrol has enough behavioral training to distinguish between when someone is lying and the stress generated by an unexpected questioning by a law enforcement officer.

 

[AlanB]

No dog here, but instead they asked EVERY SINGLE person if they were a U.S. Citizen. What would be the point? Even though I am a U.S. Citizen, if I was not a U.S. Citizen, why wouldn't I just say I was anyways? They don't check anything so it seems completely pointless.

The agent going thru the train asking a lot of ppl if they are US citizens is likely, usually I would imagine, trained in human behavior and is looking more at the person's body language and reactions & eye movements more so than just listening to the answer to his query.

Like profiling! :lol:

Watching people for well known, visible signs that they aren't telling you the truth is not profiling.

I doubt the border patrol has enough behavioral training to distinguish between when someone is lying and the stress generated by an unexpected questioning by a law enforcement officer.

They are most certainly given training in that very area. Searches and/or being pulled aside for additional questioning aren't always just random. Yes, there are also random seaches done too of luggage and what not, but they are watching for your reactions to questions. It's also why the often ask the same question, just couched differently in words.

 

[leemell]

No dog here, but instead they asked EVERY SINGLE person if they were a U.S. Citizen. What would be the point? Even though I am a U.S. Citizen, if I was not a U.S. Citizen, why wouldn't I just say I was anyways? They don't check anything so it seems completely pointless.

The agent going thru the train asking a lot of ppl if they are US citizens is likely, usually I would imagine, trained in human behavior and is looking more at the person's body language and reactions & eye movements more so than just listening to the answer to his query.

Like profiling! :lol:

Watching people for well known, visible signs that they aren't telling you the truth is not profiling.

I doubt the border patrol has enough behavioral training to distinguish between when someone is lying and the stress generated by an unexpected questioning by a law enforcement officer.

They have extensive training in just that, it is their primary tool in detecting violators. They (CBP and ICE) are specifically empowered by Congress and the Supreme Court to do this.

 

[Bierboy]

Isn't there an escaped convict on the loose up in that area, too?

 

[amamba]

Isn't there an escaped convict on the loose up in that area, too?

Nope, I believe they have all been recaptured by last now. I think the last guy was caught last week?

 

[spacecadet]

This has been going on for a long time.

My wife (who is Japanese) was targeted by one of these "guys" on a trip in 2003... I want to call him something else, but I won't... and very nearly was not allowed back on the train. She is a permanent resident, fully legal, but did not have her wallet with her as she had just stepped off the train for some fresh air. I had gone to the front of the train to take some pictures and then went back to our car, expecting her to rejoin. Apparently she was stopped by one of these guys and he didn't like the answers she gave. He told her to come down to the local police station with him. It was only the interceding of several of our fellow passengers that convinced him to let her back on the train. He was not even going to let her tell me that she was being detained before the train left.

From what she and the other passengers told me, it really was a "let me see your papers!" kind of confrontation. She tried to explain that she had them but they were just on the train, and she could go get them. He was having none of it, until several other people stepped in and vouched for her. From what I understand they actually stepped between her and the agent so he could no longer talk to her directly. And there were four of them. I don't know if he just thought it was no longer worth it or what.

I felt so bad for not being there, but I never expected this sort of thing to happen in this country.

 

[varnish]

No dog here, but instead they asked EVERY SINGLE person if they were a U.S. Citizen. What would be the point? Even though I am a U.S. Citizen, if I was not a U.S. Citizen, why wouldn't I just say I was anyways? They don't check anything so it seems completely pointless.

The agent going thru the train asking a lot of ppl if they are US citizens is likely, usually I would imagine, trained in human behavior and is looking more at the person's body language and reactions & eye movements more so than just listening to the answer to his query.

This is VERY true. These agents have been trained exactly as described and are quite clever at it.

Sunset Ltd has its regular ''visits'' by US Patrols or/and C&BP people.It runs alongside the Mexican border a lot. EB runs paralell to the Canadian border for a good chunk of its N.D and MT route. Lakeshore Ltd runs close to Lare Erie, a ''vast'' border if I've ever seen one...as well as close enough to Lake Onatrio...They're all ''potential'' targets for runners...

Cheers

 

[jis]

From what she and the other passengers told me, it really was a "let me see your papers!" kind of confrontation. She tried to explain that she had them but they were just on the train, and she could go get them. He was having none of it, until several other people stepped in and vouched for her. From what I understand they actually stepped between her and the agent so he could no longer talk to her directly. And there were four of them. I don't know if he just thought it was no longer worth it or what.

That's the reason that I always carry some form of "papers" on my body. A habit that I formed while traveling in Russia. Works very nicely in US too.

 

[leemell]

Isn't there an escaped convict on the loose up in that area, too?

Nope, I believe they have all been recaptured by last now. I think the last guy was caught last week?

Yes, in an Eastern Arizona campground.

 

[leemell]

From what she and the other passengers told me, it really was a "let me see your papers!" kind of confrontation. She tried to explain that she had them but they were just on the train, and she could go get them. He was having none of it, until several other people stepped in and vouched for her. From what I understand they actually stepped between her and the agent so he could no longer talk to her directly. And there were four of them. I don't know if he just thought it was no longer worth it or what.

That's the reason that I always carry some form of "papers" on my body. A habit that I formed while traveling in Russia. Works very nicely in US too.

Likewise in the old DDR (East Germany) and Mexico and the same habit works well for me.