:hi: Nice trip, wish it would come down our way! And why limit the Dome to the big shots,
we peons try to share when were lucky enough to be on a train that has this kind of sightseeing opportunity! Oh, that's right, they are special! Thanks!
Seriously? I agree completely that you shouldn't be able to drive over tracks except at crossings but you should absolutely be able to walk over them when no train is passing. People who don't understand how it's done will eventually get hit and won't be an issue anymore. If they're able to sue and win (doubtful) then adjust that part of the law and stop trying to prevent idiots from harming and killing themselves. The more we protect them from their own stupidity the larger the percentage they represent.
I respond to your "seriously?" with my own "seriously?"
People crossing tracks at unexpected spots pop out in front of trains from behind shrubbery, poles, etc. and either get creamed or give the engineer a good fright.Then make popping out the offense and not the mere act of crossing the tracks. I have committed the offense of safely crossing tracks a thousand times while train spotting and no engineers were harmed or even knew it ever happened. It's a victimless crime that should be legal when done safely. Unless we actually want this nanny state nonsense that takes the easy way out (ban all crossings) instead of allowing responsible people to make their own decisions and benefit or suffer from the result. I don't gleefully dance on the graves of those who are harmed or killed, unlike some folks on here, but I don't want my freedoms restricted for the sake of protecting idiots.
It's not about protecting people, although I’m sure it’s a nice side benefit, it's about property rights. The RR owns the tracks and the land immediately adjacent. Allowing people to walk across the private property of the RR’s would be the same as me allowing the neighbors on your block to walk through your backyard to reach the local bus/train stop simply because it's shorter.
Sounds like the UP knocked out two birds with one stone. The gate runner ticketing is a program called "Trooper on the Train" and has been very successful where it was welcome. Believe it or not some municipalities don't want their motorists to be safe and don't want to participate in the program. (Probably because the mayor is the chief violator of running downed gates.) I participated in one as the engineer where we repeatedly crossed a major highway. On the other side was at least a dozen state troopers, numerous sheriff's deputies and the local yocals. I got a call about half way into the operation and was asked to not proceed any more. The reason? Some of the state troopers had run out of tickets and everyone was getting writers cramps because they had issued 182 tickets in less than 2 hours !!! :blush:
So saving lives is just an inadvertent "side benefit" of projects like the SAFETY Train and Operation LIFESAVER? If so then UP should be honest about their ruse and stop hiding behind this fake PR spin.
I agree. But if the police won't write a citation for people crossing my unfenced lawn then neither should they be writing citations for people crossing unfenced rail lines. Once you remove the "side benefit" of safety you remove any reason for the police to treat it differently than any other private property.
Well, the street and street right-of-way is public property. The railroad tracks and railroad right-of-way is private property. So, walking along a street is not trespassing (although walking across a street could be jaywalking), while walking along or across railroad tracks is trespassing.
Trespassing on railroad property (whether actually crossing railroad tracks or not) while train spotting (or rail fanning) is part of what gives railfans such a bad image in much of the railroading industry.
In 1997, the UP fenced, with razor wire, the entire former SP Lake Charles, LA yard account of the element trespassing and cutting through the yard during switching operations. The fence went up and the next day the special agent got a call of a trespasser at Lake Charles. When he drove up he discovered a "trespasser" who had gotten hung up on the razor wire and bled to death.
Although OLI does talk about trespassing in general, it's about far more than that. In fact, its primary focus is to get people to actually obey the rules of the road. They include stopping for any crossing with a passive crossing device, and of course stopping at any crossing with an active warning device that is activated and flashing.
Actually I believe that this comes down to clout and expediency. UP is big enough to make a stink and get the local police to pay attention. If you get hit by a train while crossing the tracks and live, when the cop shows up he doesn't hand you a ticket for getting hit by the train; he hands you a ticket for trespassing. You also find many more people violating the RR's property as compared to a neighbor's property. People for some reason seem to think that RR tracks are public property, perhaps because no one actually lives on them.
It's trespassing. A railroad is not public property. I don't care how many times you cross a railroad track without an incident, it's still trespassing. It's not nanny state, it's safety. It you got hit and killed or injured, your family's lawyer would be suing the railroad, saying, well nobody ever stopped him. If you're trespassing while railfanning, you're a bad railfan who gives makes it harder for railfans who obey the laws. Are you from the United Kingdom or something?, nobody calls it train spotting in the U.S.
It's not safer. Walk on the side of the road, not in the middle. A train can be on any track at any time in any direction.
Look, I'm a child of the 1970's. You know, back when American railroads actually welcomed interest by fans instead of looking for ways to detain and fine us. They didn't target people crossing the tracks when no train was anywhere near the area. They never even knew it happened or cared to know. When they did see me walking around they invited me to come aboard and ride along as they switched freight cars. They showed me around the cab and let me operate the controls. Today those people are long gone. They've been replaced with a rather different type of railroad employee who freaks out over even minor events and tries to keep the fans as far away as possible from the action.
In other words, might makes right, except that I don't agree with that immoral philosophy.
It's trespassing. No, wait, it's safety. Well, whatever it is, it's definitely not a nanny state. Right. I'm not entirely sure what you're actually trying to say here but I remain convinced that these $150+ fines for pedestrians crossing barren tracks are completely unnecessary. The fact that our lopsided legal system allows it doesn't sway me in the slightest.
Well, since I actually know my family I can assure you that would never happen. Nor would I initiate such a lawsuit on their behalf. But thanks for that claim of imaginary hypocrisy concocted out of nothing but hot air.
Well, if being a "good" railfan requires a guilty conscience combined with a subservient self-hating outlook then I guess I'd rather be one of the bad guys. *shrug*
Hey I was born in 1960, so I understand. Our generation then grew up and decided to start suing everyone and changed the rules. So sadly that world no longer exists.
Whether you argree with it or not doesn't change the fact that you could end up being the proud owner of a ticket if you do cross the tracks like that, and that argument won't win you any points in your defense should you try to challenge the ticket.
