Viewliner vs. Superliner

[AutoTrDvr]

Having thought a bit about my "dream routes" (in re: the on going thread), I was also thinking about the "current" routes I'd like to travel. Like many here, perhaps, I've always wanted to do a " 'Round the Country" circuit tour (e.g. Crescent-->SL --> CS --> EB --> LSL, or Cap.Ltd-->SWC-->CS-->EB-->Cap Ltd). I was considering the latter of these two due to it being an "all Superliner" circuit. I have never traveled in "Viewliner" cars (my travel on the Broadway Ltd. and LSL was all original "Heritage Fleet" Sleepers - Both "Slumbercoach" and Roomette). Since my home base is the NYC metro area, pretty much any originating train I'd take from NYP has to be Viewliner. Perhaps we could put *that* on the "dream list" - building those extra Hudson tunnels that can handle the Superliner cars... Fat chance... I know... since Gov. Christie killed the project. :angry2:

Anyway, my question is, for those who have traveled on both, are there any real "appreciable" differences between Viewliner and Superliner cars, other than the obvious double decker/ height thing? I see, for example, that the "full bedrooms" have slightly different dimensions, but are laid out the same and appear to be the same otherwise. Also, the Viewliner roomettes all have a private toilet/sink (albeit not enclosed), whereas Superliner roomettes do not. I traveled in a "roomette" on the LSL(Heritage Fleet), so the Viewliner roomette would match that.

Point being, If there are no real differences, then it does not make sense to go out of the way to secure an "all Superliner" circuit, and I can avail myself of all the NYP originating trains (as opposed to driving to DC or taking the Acela). The current price differential (assuming full bedrooms on all trains and given the dates I selected) is only about $150.00 between the two circuits,

Also, as an aside, are there any other "termini" stations (other than NYP) for which originating/terminating trains require Viewliner cars due to height?

 

[PerRock]

Well currently Viewliners only exsist as sleeping cars & 1 diner. Viewliners have more windows-per room then superliners. Superliner trains (can) get a Sightseer Lounge car. Superliner cars can carry more people in them.

Does NY Grand Central (if Amtrak were to use it again) require Viewliners? I'm also not certian about Superliners going thru the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel to Detroit Grand Central (although Amtrak doesn't run there any more either). BBY maybe?

peter

 

[MikefromCrete]

Well currently Viewliners only exsist as sleeping cars & 1 diner. Viewliners have more windows-per room then superliners. Superliner trains (can) get a Sightseer Lounge car. Superliner cars can carry more people in them.

Does NY Grand Central (if Amtrak were to use it again) require Viewliners? I'm also not certian about Superliners going thru the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel to Detroit Grand Central (although Amtrak doesn't run there any more either). BBY maybe?

peter

I think its more than the Hudson River tunnels prohibiting Superliners on the Northeast Corridor. Those those know more than me can explain. Grand Central's tunnels are also very restrictive.

 

[Ryan]

Superliners won't fit through Baltimore either, and there are probably enough places where the catenary is low enough to cause issues.

Viewliners have the upper row of windows, which are really nice (especially in the upper bunk of a roomette). You also have the storage cubby above the hallway in a VL (but you don't have the lower level luggage rack).

For now, VL roomettes also have toilets (which means there isn't a community toilet in the car). This will be changed as the VL2's come online.

 

[AlanB]

Since my home base is the NYC metro area, pretty much any originating train I'd take from NYP has to be Viewliner. Perhaps we could put *that* on the "dream list" - building those extra Hudson tunnels that can handle the Superliner cars... Fat chance... I know... since Gov. Christie killed the project. :angry2:

Those tunnels killed by Gov Christie wouldn't have made any changes to Amtrak in regard to Superliner cars. Those tunnels were not going to connect to Penn Station, other than a pedestrian corridor between the two stations. Even if some track link had been added to the plan, it still wouldn't have gotten Superliners to the city. They can't fit through the tunnels in Baltimore and even more important, they can't fit through the 4 tunnels to Queens and Sunnyside yard where the cars would need to go for servicing in between runs.

Anyway, my question is, for those who have traveled on both, are there any real "appreciable" differences between Viewliner and Superliner cars, other than the obvious double decker/ height thing? I see, for example, that the "full bedrooms" have slightly different dimensions, but are laid out the same and appear to be the same otherwise. Also, the Viewliner roomettes all have a private toilet/sink (albeit not enclosed), whereas Superliner roomettes do not. I traveled in a "roomette" on the LSL(Heritage Fleet), so the Viewliner roomette would match that.
Point being, If there are no real differences, then it does not make sense to go out of the way to secure an "all Superliner" circuit, and I can avail myself of all the NYP originating trains (as opposed to driving to DC or taking the Acela). The current price differential (assuming full bedrooms on all trains and given the dates I selected) is only about $150.00 between the two circuits,

As already mentioned, there is an extra row of windows in the car, providing a roomier feel to the room and making it brighter too. Those extra windows allow the person in the upper bunk to still peak out at night, unlike a Superliner. There are unique tapered beds, done in part to go around the toilet in the roomettes. But that taper also makes it much easier to climb into the upper bunk; not to mention the greater amount of space between the bed & the ceiling.

Then there is the cubby hole over the hall, that allows one to store suitcases within the room. Finally there are fans for the upper & lower bunks, and the lighting controls are available to both the person in the lower bed and the upper bed.

 

[MattW]

Also the platform height. Superliners can't serve high-level platforms as Grand Central and New York Penn have. I'm not sure if Grand Central has a few low level platforms like Washington does, but I suspect not.

 

[AlanB]

I think its more than the Hudson River tunnels prohibiting Superliners on the Northeast Corridor. Those those know more than me can explain. Grand Central's tunnels are also very restrictive.

Way more restrictive!

The Park Avenue tunnels to Grand Central won't even clear anything taller than a P42 engine. The Hudson or North River tunnels, as well as the East River tunnels will clear the squatter multi-level cars that both NJT & the LIRR currently use. They're not quite as tall as a Superliner, but taller are than a P42 and a single level car.

 

[Ziv]

Having thought a bit about my "dream routes" (in re: the on going thread), I was also thinking about the "current" routes I'd like to travel. Like many here, perhaps, I've always wanted to do a " 'Round the Country" circuit tour (e.g. Crescent-->SL --> CS --> EB --> LSL, or Cap.Ltd-->SWC-->CS-->EB-->Cap Ltd). I was considering the latter of these two due to it being an "all Superliner" circuit. I have never traveled in "Viewliner" cars (my travel on the Broadway Ltd. and LSL was all original "Heritage Fleet" Sleepers - Both "Slumbercoach" and Roomette). Since my home base is the NYC metro area, pretty much any originating train I'd take from NYP has to be Viewliner. Perhaps we could put *that* on the "dream list" - building those extra Hudson tunnels that can handle the Superliner cars... Fat chance... I know... since Gov. Christie killed the project. :angry2:

Anyway, my question is, for those who have traveled on both, are there any real "appreciable" differences between Viewliner and Superliner cars, other than the obvious double decker/ height thing? I see, for example, that the "full bedrooms" have slightly different dimensions, but are laid out the same and appear to be the same otherwise. Also, the Viewliner roomettes all have a private toilet/sink (albeit not enclosed), whereas Superliner roomettes do not. I traveled in a "roomette" on the LSL(Heritage Fleet), so the Viewliner roomette would match that.

Point being, If there are no real differences, then it does not make sense to go out of the way to secure an "all Superliner" circuit, and I can avail myself of all the NYP originating trains (as opposed to driving to DC or taking the Acela). The current price differential (assuming full bedrooms on all trains and given the dates I selected) is only about $150.00 between the two circuits,

Also, as an aside, are there any other "termini" stations (other than NYP) for which originating/terminating trains require Viewliner cars due to height?

AutoTrDvr, I did the round the US trip using a 15 day pass in September, and the Crescent was the train I liked the least. It seemed like the food and the seats were a little too old, so to speak. The other trains were better, but the Empire Builder was simply phenomenal, but I am bit biased since I grew up in Montana. The SSL was a bit rough early on in Texas due to poor tracks, but the service was pretty good and the scenery was impressive albeit a bit monotonous as we got into the desert. The CS was fun, especially the slow curves coming out of LA and the coast views as we moved north past Malibu, it just kept getting better til we left the coast. The EB along the Columbia is spectacular, but the Rockies are the high point for me. Stopped at West Glacier and wish I had spent longer there. The plains of Montana are my home, but I think they truly are a special sight. The train turned into a bit of a party when we got to Williston for obvious reasons. The guys are loud, when the conductor and the car attendant weren't around, but pretty polite. My EB was pretty much right on time getting into Chicago, which seems to be a rarity. Capital limited was merely ok, though the portion through Cumberland was pretty cool.

If you have the time, I really recommend the circle routes. The only thing I would do differently is upgrade to Roomettes more often from the coach.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Those tunnels killed by Gov Christie wouldn't have made any changes to Amtrak in regard to Superliner cars. Those tunnels were not going to connect to Penn Station, other than a pedestrian corridor between the two stations. Even if some track link had been added to the plan, it still wouldn't have gotten Superliners to the city. They can't fit through the tunnels in Baltimore and even more important, they can't fit through the 4 tunnels to Queens and Sunnyside yard where the cars would need to go for servicing in between runs.

Yeah... there is that. For it to work, Amtrak would probably have to build a yard in Seacacus or nearby, or use some of NJ Transit's yard in Kearny. But they'd not be able to get around the Baltimore Tunnel restriction. Probably the reason why the AT never originated in NYC, but started in Lorton Va... and why it will never extend that far.

As already mentioned, there is an extra row of windows in the car, providing a roomier feel to the room and making it brighter too. Those extra windows allow the person in the upper bunk to still peak out at night, unlike a Superliner. There are unique tapered beds, done in part to go around the toilet in the roomettes. But that taper also makes it much easier to climb into the upper bunk; not to mention the greater amount of space between the bed & the ceiling.

Then there is the cubby hole over the hall, that allows one to store suitcases within the room. Finally there are fans for the upper & lower bunks, and the lighting controls are available to both the person in the lower bed and the upper bed.

Do the extra windows provide more "effective" viewing (when in day/seat mode)? I would have thought it pretty much a wash, given that Superliner windows are positioned higher on the car body (those on the upper deck anyway... ).

I don't use the upper bunk, so that won't matter. And, I assume the "full bedrooms" are the same in both Viewliner and Superliner, save for some minor differences in the room dimensions (per Amtrak literature).

 

[AutoTrDvr]

I think its more than the Hudson River tunnels prohibiting Superliners on the Northeast Corridor. Those those know more than me can explain. Grand Central's tunnels are also very restrictive.

Way more restrictive!

The Park Avenue tunnels to Grand Central won't even clear anything taller than a P42 engine. The Hudson or North River tunnels, as well as the East River tunnels will clear the squatter multi-level cars that both NJT & the LIRR currently use. They're not quite as tall as a Superliner, but taller are than a P42 and a single level car.

Yep... Squatters are 14' 5" tall, just meeting the 14'6" gauge restriction along the NEC. Superliners are 16' 2"... Not gonna fit.

 

[jis]

Those tunnels killed by Gov Christie wouldn't have made any changes to Amtrak in regard to Superliner cars. Those tunnels were not going to connect to Penn Station, other than a pedestrian corridor between the two stations. Even if some track link had been added to the plan, it still wouldn't have gotten Superliners to the city. They can't fit through the tunnels in Baltimore and even more important, they can't fit through the 4 tunnels to Queens and Sunnyside yard where the cars would need to go for servicing in between runs.

What is even more critical is that they won't fit within Penn Station even if you could per chance get one there somehow Have you seen how little clearance there is between the 14'6" tall MLVs and the catenary inside Penn Station? The upper deck of Superliners will become convertible Cabriolet style in Penn Station.

 

[Ryan]

Do the extra windows provide more "effective" viewing (when in day/seat mode)? I would have thought it pretty much a wash, given that Superliner windows are positioned higher on the car body (those on the upper deck anyway... ).

I don't use the upper bunk, so that won't matter. And, I assume the "full bedrooms" are the same in both Viewliner and Superliner, save for some minor differences in the room dimensions (per Amtrak literature).

Absolutely - you won't mistake the room (both kinds) for a Sightseer lounge, but the visibility is MUCH better.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

AutoTrDvr, I did the round the US trip using a 15 day pass in September, and the Crescent was the train I liked the least. It seemed like the food and the seats were a little too old, so to speak. The other trains were better, but the Empire Builder was simply phenomenal, but I am bit biased since I grew up in Montana. The SSL was a bit rough early on in Texas due to poor tracks, but the service was pretty good and the scenery was impressive albeit a bit monotonous as we got into the desert. The CS was fun, especially the slow curves coming out of LA and the coast views as we moved north past Malibu, it just kept getting better til we left the coast. The EB along the Columbia is spectacular, but the Rockies are the high point for me. Stopped at West Glacier and wish I had spent longer there. The plains of Montana are my home, but I think they truly are a special sight. The train turned into a bit of a party when we got to Williston for obvious reasons. The guys are loud, when the conductor and the car attendant weren't around, but pretty polite. My EB was pretty much right on time getting into Chicago, which seems to be a rarity. Capital limited was merely ok, though the portion through Cumberland was pretty cool.

If you have the time, I really recommend the circle routes. The only thing I would do differently is upgrade to Roomettes more often from the coach.

It sounds like the "Cap.Ltd-->SWC-->CS-->EB-->Cap Ltd" would be the preferred circuit. All Superliners, better scenery. And I would never do such a circuit in coach.

I'd either drive to/from Union Sta. (WAS) or take the Acela.

Thanks.

 

[Ryan]

Too much duplication, no reason to take the Cap both ways.

For my honeymoon I did Cardinal-EB-CS-SWC-Cap.

If I lived up there I'd skip the Cap and use the LSL and the Card for the NYP-CHI legs.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Superliners won't fit through Baltimore either, and there are probably enough places where the catenary is low enough to cause issues.

N0ot to mention NEC consist mostly high platforms, at least where passengers board the most.

 

[Mackensen]

AutoTrDvr, I did the round the US trip using a 15 day pass in September, and the Crescent was the train I liked the least. It seemed like the food and the seats were a little too old, so to speak. The other trains were better, but the Empire Builder was simply phenomenal, but I am bit biased since I grew up in Montana. The SSL was a bit rough early on in Texas due to poor tracks, but the service was pretty good and the scenery was impressive albeit a bit monotonous as we got into the desert. The CS was fun, especially the slow curves coming out of LA and the coast views as we moved north past Malibu, it just kept getting better til we left the coast. The EB along the Columbia is spectacular, but the Rockies are the high point for me. Stopped at West Glacier and wish I had spent longer there. The plains of Montana are my home, but I think they truly are a special sight. The train turned into a bit of a party when we got to Williston for obvious reasons. The guys are loud, when the conductor and the car attendant weren't around, but pretty polite. My EB was pretty much right on time getting into Chicago, which seems to be a rarity. Capital limited was merely ok, though the portion through Cumberland was pretty cool.

If you have the time, I really recommend the circle routes. The only thing I would do differently is upgrade to Roomettes more often from the coach.

It sounds like the "Cap.Ltd-->SWC-->CS-->EB-->Cap Ltd" would be the preferred circuit. All Superliners, better scenery. And I would never do such a circuit in coach.

I'd either drive to/from Union Sta. (WAS) or take the Acela.

Thanks.

I'd take the Lake Shore Limited westbound. You can still make your connection and you get the pleasure of viewing the Hudson as the sun sets. The Capitol Limited is superior eastbound because you'll do the Potomac and Youghiogheny in daylight.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Too much duplication, no reason to take the Cap both ways.

For my honeymoon I did Cardinal-EB-CS-SWC-Cap.

If I lived up there I'd skip the Cap and use the LSL and the Card for the NYP-CHI legs.

I could do Card-->SWC-->CS-->EB-->LSL.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Superliners won't fit through Baltimore either, and there are probably enough places where the catenary is low enough to cause issues.

N0ot to mention NEC consist mostly high platforms, at least where passengers board the most.

Very true. The LIRR/NJT Squatter Double decker cars have doors that handle the high and low platforms. The Superliners do not.

 

[Ryan]

Too much duplication, no reason to take the Cap both ways.

For my honeymoon I did Cardinal-EB-CS-SWC-Cap.

If I lived up there I'd skip the Cap and use the LSL and the Card for the NYP-CHI legs.

I could do Card-->SWC-->CS-->EB-->LSL.

Sounds like a winner to me..

 

[NAVYBLUE]

God willing and the creek doesn't rise, I and wife hope to visit the family "back east" (MD/PA/CT) for Christmas from LAX via the following"

SL

Bus to Jacksonville

SS (to WAS)

Acela ( to NYC)

LSL (to Chicago)

EB

CS to LAX)

I had thought about coach during the day and have a sleeper ticket from say around 4:00 PM local to 8:00 AM next day for a roomette and pick up the (2) meals to save a few dollars, BUT I haven't done the math so I don't know if it would be a logistics nightmare and I don't know if any savings (if there are any) would be worth the moving hassle. Would check (2) large suitcase from Point A to Pont B on each train and have a day suitcase. I could see explaining all this to an AMTRAK agent. Is it doable or a logistics nightmare ? Last year it was SWC/CARD/CL/SWC.

NAVYBLUE

 

[AutoTrDvr]

AutoTrDvr, I did the round the US trip using a 15 day pass in September, and the Crescent was the train I liked the least. It seemed like the food and the seats were a little too old, so to speak. The other trains were better, but the Empire Builder was simply phenomenal, but I am bit biased since I grew up in Montana. The SSL was a bit rough early on in Texas due to poor tracks, but the service was pretty good and the scenery was impressive albeit a bit monotonous as we got into the desert. The CS was fun, especially the slow curves coming out of LA and the coast views as we moved north past Malibu, it just kept getting better til we left the coast. The EB along the Columbia is spectacular, but the Rockies are the high point for me. Stopped at West Glacier and wish I had spent longer there. The plains of Montana are my home, but I think they truly are a special sight. The train turned into a bit of a party when we got to Williston for obvious reasons. The guys are loud, when the conductor and the car attendant weren't around, but pretty polite. My EB was pretty much right on time getting into Chicago, which seems to be a rarity. Capital limited was merely ok, though the portion through Cumberland was pretty cool.

If you have the time, I really recommend the circle routes. The only thing I would do differently is upgrade to Roomettes more often from the coach.

It sounds like the "Cap.Ltd-->SWC-->CS-->EB-->Cap Ltd" would be the preferred circuit. All Superliners, better scenery. And I would never do such a circuit in coach.

I'd either drive to/from Union Sta. (WAS) or take the Acela.

Thanks.

I'd take the Lake Shore Limited westbound. You can still make your connection and you get the pleasure of viewing the Hudson as the sun sets. The Capitol Limited is superior eastbound because you'll do the Potomac and Youghiogheny in daylight.

If I'm taking the LSL, I'd prefer to see New York State during the day.

Connections are not an issue, as I'd probably stay at least a day or two (or more) at each terminus.

 

[bay state bruce]

My wife and I did an around the country 2 years ago leaving BOS(rte) for WAS on the NEC Took the Crescent to NOL SL to LAX .Cs to SEA and the EB to CHI then Home on the LSL.Roomettes the entire trip with the

exception being coach on the LSL(never again). Great trip and VL cars are fine and in some ways better(own toilet-more luggage space and windows in upper bed)

We are doing the same trip in reverse this Sept.and are ready to go.Good luck with your plans.

 

[First time poster]

Just road in my first superliner. I am convinced now that the viewliner accommodations are much better.