VT commits to extending Ethan Allen to Burlington by 2017

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PVD

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Top speed in E mode on a P32DM would be much lower than max track speed on MNRR up the Hudson, it would make no sense technical problems notwithstanding. I totally agree with you. I don't know why it was even in the report that way, unless they are talking about something that doesn't exist yet.
 

Thirdrail7

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Here's an interesting article. Apparently, a couple of developers that lobbied for the train don't want the trains stored and serviced near their station.

They're probably correct in saying that the rail yard two blocks away would make a better storage area but you did lobby for the train.

Waterfront denizens to Amtrak: Stop but don’t stay

If you click on the link, you'll see a picture of something they called the Vermonter.
It is equally laughable.


Developers Melinda Moulton and Elizabeth Steele renovated Union Station in the 1990s, hoping to entice Amtrak to bring service to the station.

Now that plans to bring service to Burlington are coming together, Moulton said she was dismayed to learn that the 500 foot long and about 14 foot high train might stay there, every night, on one of the most popular spots on Burlington’s waterfront.

The trains would also likely need to idle during the winter, according to Amtrak spokesman Jason Abrams. The train will automatically start up when temperatures drop below 40 degrees Fahrenheit.“We’ve been working for 20 years to make this happen,” said Moulton, CEO of Main Street Landing.

“We never had any intention to have a train overnighting and being serviced right next to Main Street Landing property,” she said.Moulton and Steele, the CEO and owner of the real estate development company Main Street Landing, respectively, went to a public hearing last month to express concerns to officials conducting the study. Moulton then quickly organized a petition, signed mostly by business owners and residents who live and work on the Burlington waterfront, asking officials to remove the proposed storage location from consideration.

“It’s going to block the view, it’s going to block people coming down College Street, it’s going to be noisy, it’s going to be stinky in the winter,” Moulton said. “My tenants and my residents are concerned about their quality of life.”
 

Anderson

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So, is there a timeline on this? I'm mainly asking because the thread title is officially a misnomer.
 

neroden

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The controlling source of delay is the Middlebury tunnel. Thoughtless people with irrational, baseless complaints delayed that project's completion until 2020. (It's getting done basically exactly as originally designed.) Apart from that, a Middlebury platform needs to be built and some other details need to be worked out, but none of them will take nearly as long as the Middlebury tunnel.
 

neroden

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Well, they're right; the train should go at least to Essex Junction and preferably to Montreal. It's nuts to stop it in Burlington when Essex Junction is so close.
 

jis

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NIMBYism? In Burlington? I'm shocked! SHOCKED I SAY!
Its not NIMBYism, its about the noise of a parked train!
Just extending the train all the way to Essex Jct. or St. Albans will fix that problem.
although at some significant additional cost perhaps, but for addition of a few more stations and travel possibilities.
 

cpotisch

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Ryan

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Because the person doing the rendering knows nothing of Amtrak...
 

cpotisch

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[rant] They never do, but one would think that there would they'd get that kind of stuff right at least half of the time. Yet articles about Amtrak from any mainstream outlet almost always get multiple things wrong, It doesn't make much difference, but I would think that a reporter or author might be able to do a reasonable amount of research about this kind of stuff. Literally, if you just do an image search for "Ethan Allen Express," this is the first result that comes up:

Ethan_Allen_enters_Croton_Harmon_08_12_08.jpg

That's all it takes to get a sense of what the train actually is. But nope, that's apparently too hard. [/rant]
 
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jis

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Considering that even Trains gets things wrong half the time, expecting general media to get things right is indeed a fool's errand.
 

railiner

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The other thing is, the average reader of the general media, doesn't really know or care about the details. And general media would probably rather dig into their own archives for "stock shots", rather than the expense of taking new photo's or using someone else's....
 

Thirdrail7

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Its not NIMBYism, its about the noise of a parked train!
Just how noisy is parked train these days? I'm willing to bet the people that are commenting haven't really been around an idling train. The Genesis engine isn't that noisy, particularly if when aren't supplying HEP. A nice 480 standby box would do wonders.

Additionally, if new equipment is ordered, it is likely not to be as loud.
 

cpotisch

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Just how noisy is parked train these days? I'm willing to bet the people that are commenting haven't really been around an idling train. The Genesis engine isn't that noisy, particularly if when aren't supplying HEP. A nice 480 standby box would do wonders.

Additionally, if new equipment is ordered, it is likely not to be as loud.
Speaking from personal experience, I've found that a couple idling P42s are pretty f***ing noisy. Not as bad as an F40 ("Screamers"), but it's pretty darn loud.
 

jis

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I have noticed the SC-44s, and specifically the Birghtline version of them are remarkably quiet. Some people are actually complaining that they are dangerously quiet
Apparently people wearing headphones can walk into them by mistake while texting and not paying attention to where they are going
 
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AmtrakBlue

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I have noticed the SC-44s, and specifically the Birghtline version of them are remarkably quiet. Some people are actually complaining that they are dangerously quiet
Apparently people wearing headphones can walk into them by mistake while texting and not paying attention to where they are going
If they can't notice something that big in their peripheral vision, they need to get their eyes check.
 

jis

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I have noticed the SC-44s, and specifically the Birghtline version of them are remarkably quiet. Some people are actually complaining that they are dangerously quiet
Apparently people wearing headphones can walk into them by mistake while texting and not paying attention to where they are going
If they can't notice something that big in their peripheral vision, they need to get their eyes check.
What can I say. They must be very focused on their little screen
 

Thirdrail7

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Just how noisy is parked train these days? I'm willing to bet the people that are commenting haven't really been around an idling train. The Genesis engine isn't that noisy, particularly if when aren't supplying HEP. A nice 480 standby box would do wonders.

Additionally, if new equipment is ordered, it is likely not to be as loud.
Speaking from personal experience, I've found that a couple idling P42s are pretty f***ing noisy. Not as bad as an F40 ("Screamers"), but it's pretty darn loud.
It was probably supplying HEP, which is why I stated a nice 480 standby box would do wonders. It would also allow the A(utomatic)E(ngine)S(tart)S(top) system to function.
 
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jis

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When an engine is stopped, are they able to use some sort of an electric engine block heater to function at least in the winter?
 

Devil's Advocate

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Just how noisy is parked train these days? I'm willing to bet the people that are commenting haven't really been around an idling train. The Genesis engine isn't that noisy, particularly if when aren't supplying HEP. A nice 480 standby box would do wonders.

Additionally, if new equipment is ordered, it is likely not to be as loud.
Speaking from personal experience, I've found that a couple idling P42s are pretty f***ing noisy. Not as bad as an F40 ("Screamers"), but it's pretty darn loud.
It was probably supplying HEP, which is why I stated a nice 480 standby box would do wonders. It would also allow the A(utomatic)E(ngine)S(tart)S(top) system to function.
How noisy is a parked train "these days?" In the case of Amtrak Genesis locomotives it's just as noisy today as it was nearly three decades ago. I find idling Amtrak locomotives to be extremely loud myself, it's certainly not easy to talk or listen to another person while standing near one, and even though my home station supplies hotel power Amtrak still leaves the rest of the locomotive running. Depending on the station location and layout of the city that idling noise could adversely impact nearby homes and hotels. A shut down engine is nice and quiet but even though "green running" Amtrak claims it shuts down locomotives where hotel power is located that's not how they actually do things where I live. Maybe it's just easier to blame NIMBY's with dismissive low effort rhetoric than it is to admit this might be a real issue worth debating and resolving beforehand.
 

Thirdrail7

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How noisy is a parked train "these days?" In the case of Amtrak Genesis locomotives it's just as noisy today as it was nearly three decades ago. I find idling Amtrak locomotives to be extremely loud myself, it's certainly not easy to talk or listen to another person while standing near one, and even though my home station supplies hotel power Amtrak still leaves the rest of the locomotive running. Depending on the station location and layout of the city that idling noise could adversely impact nearby homes and hotels. A shut down engine is nice and quiet but even though "green running" Amtrak claims it shuts down locomotives where hotel power is located that's not how they actually do things where I live. Maybe it's just easier to blame NIMBY's with dismissive low effort rhetoric than it is to admit this might be a real issue worth debating and resolving beforehand.
I'm not seeing where anyone is being dismissive. Additionally, there may be an issue and I even proposed a solution....one that wasn't available "nearly 30 years ago." The AESS system that has been installed on most of the engines (the whole diesel fleet is not included) has done wonders, and mended fences in various neighborhoods. Furthermore, there may be another fleet of diesels by the time this service begins....and hotel power can be used if it is available and conditions permit. Perhaps conditions or operations do not support using the feature where you live, but that may have absolute no bearing on where this is being proposed.

Maybe it is easier to whine and listen to others than it is to open your mind and find out for yourself before exploring the options.
 
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Devil's Advocate

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I'm not seeing where anyone is being dismissive. Additionally, there may be an issue and I even proposed a solution....one that wasn't available "nearly 30 years ago." The AESS system that has been installed on most of the engines (the whole diesel fleet is not included) has done wonders, and mended fences in various neighborhoods. Furthermore, there may be another fleet of diesels by the time this service begins....and hotel power can be used if it is available and conditions permit. Perhaps conditions or operations do not support using the feature where you live, but that may have absolute no bearing on where this is being proposed. Maybe it is easier to whine and listen to others than it is to open your mind and find out for yourself before exploring the options.
Here on AU we don't use the "NIMBY" term as a starting point for thoughtful discussion of multiple viewpoints. Rather, we use it as a blunt force weapon with which to bludgeon nuance into dust. I'd personally love to "find out for myself" what it would take for Amtrak to shut down their locomotives at my home station. How would you suggest I go about doing that? I'd also like to find out if auto shutdown and quiet idling is a requirement for the next fleet of new/used long distance locomotives. Rather than debate theoretical maybes I'd enjoy getting down to the nitty gritty details and see where Amtrak really falls on the side of excessive noise and pollution, not just in the Northeast but throughout their entire network. Amtrak's vague and indefinite claims on these matters have been confusing and annoying me for several years now.
 
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