WAS-CHI 1 zone or two?
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Ryan
Court Jester
You're correct, it is a 2 zoner.
Not a great redemption in points either, you're probably better off paying cash.
Not a great redemption in points either, you're probably better off paying cash.
amamba
Engineer
Yup, its a two zoner. Kind of sucks.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
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There was a time long long ago, but in this galaxy that it used to be a one zoner maybe. But that changed a long time back.
Ryan
Court Jester
This would be so much simpler if the zones were to be replaced by mileage buckets.
0-999 miles = x points
999-1999 miles = 2x points
Etc, etc.
It's still an ugly step function, but it's better than the current system where a <100 mile trip can be a 2 zone trip and you can get one zoners for 10 times the distance.
0-999 miles = x points
999-1999 miles = 2x points
Etc, etc.
It's still an ugly step function, but it's better than the current system where a <100 mile trip can be a 2 zone trip and you can get one zoners for 10 times the distance.
jis
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Agreed.
But then Amtrak would miss out on our $25 fare from CLE to TOL in coach to start our western AGR Trips 
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Sorry to Disagree Ryan, but Most of us that Live out in Fly Over Country where the Miles are Long and the LD Trains Few, Prefer the Current Method! I personally like to be able to go from Austin to WPT on a 2 Zone Award (5 Days/4 Nights) or to Miami via CHI and WAS (4 Days/3 Nights) for the Same Amount fo Points!! !! (Of course the Old Slidell and Columbus Loophole Trips were even Better! RIP!!!
)
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Ispolkom
Engineer
As usual, where you stand on this issue depends on where you sit. I think that it's more or less fair that it costs me the same number of points to go from St. Paul to Washington as it does to go MSP-LAX.
In any case, I think that a much simpler AGR system would be based not on mileage, but on ticket price. Say that each AGR point is worth so many cents, and then it's an easy math problem. It also would allow elimination of black-out days, which as written mostly make sense for the NEC (Columbus Day a busy travel day? Really?), since passengers would have to pay more points to travel on a busier day.
Now, this would be completely against my interests, since most of my AGR travel revolves around arbitrage with zone borders and agents who have unusual interpretations of award costs, but it would be much simpler, and would better reflect the scarcity of available seats.
In any case, I think that a much simpler AGR system would be based not on mileage, but on ticket price. Say that each AGR point is worth so many cents, and then it's an easy math problem. It also would allow elimination of black-out days, which as written mostly make sense for the NEC (Columbus Day a busy travel day? Really?), since passengers would have to pay more points to travel on a busier day.
Now, this would be completely against my interests, since most of my AGR travel revolves around arbitrage with zone borders and agents who have unusual interpretations of award costs, but it would be much simpler, and would better reflect the scarcity of available seats.
the_traveler
Engineer
But that would make most of my AGR trips about 25 zones! :giggle:
crescent2
Conductor
One of the best things about AGR, imo, is that you don't have to worry about bucket prices. If awards were based on the price of tickets, that advantage would disappear. So I would not want awards based on ticket prices. (And I want to redeem for the CZ which is a very expensive ticket!)
Different people would benefit from different methods. I say leave it like it is, but do publish a map again that includes city names.
Different people would benefit from different methods. I say leave it like it is, but do publish a map again that includes city names.
Ispolkom
Engineer
I don't dispute that. But considering that I work a few dozen feet from an enormous bronze statue of Leif Erikson (complete with winged helmet, no less) I have difficulty seeing why AGR has this as a national blackout day.
the_traveler
Engineer
And why does Rhode Island still "celebrate" Victory Day (formerly known by most as VJ Day)? The only reason I can think of is that the state's employees want a paid day off to go shopping or to the beach in summer! :wacko:
I was a federal employee when I first moved to RI and saw August (I think) xx was a holiday schedule for the bus. I had to ask co-workers why that was. So because RI "celebrates", I had to drive 40 miles or so to work. Just because it was a "holiday", and the first bus in to work would not arrive until about noon! :angry:
[End rant]
I was a federal employee when I first moved to RI and saw August (I think) xx was a holiday schedule for the bus. I had to ask co-workers why that was. So because RI "celebrates", I had to drive 40 miles or so to work. Just because it was a "holiday", and the first bus in to work would not arrive until about noon! :angry:
[End rant]
amamba
Engineer
I love having off on Victory Day - although I do feel kind of guilty about it.
It doesn't make any sense that the LSL or the CL redemption is a two zoner when it is a significantly shorter trip than one zones like BOS - MIA or LA - SEA. It is frustrating for those of us in the Northeast that we have to do two zones to get to CHI. But oh well, it is what it is. I do think the idea of a redemption being based on miles could work or perhaps length of trip.
It doesn't make any sense that the LSL or the CL redemption is a two zoner when it is a significantly shorter trip than one zones like BOS - MIA or LA - SEA. It is frustrating for those of us in the Northeast that we have to do two zones to get to CHI. But oh well, it is what it is. I do think the idea of a redemption being based on miles could work or perhaps length of trip.
the_traveler
Engineer
I agree having the LSL or CL (from NYP/WAS to CHI) being a 2 zone award, while CHI to LAX either on the SWC direct or on the TE via SAS or on the EB/CS via PDX also being 2 zones is not fair at all.
Based on the "maximizing revenue" theory, I think that sellers of services (like Amtrak) decide not to give away a service for free if they are quite confident (based on prior experience?) that they can sell most, if not all, of their service on that particular day or days. It looks to me like that date chosen for AGR Award blackout in October is the Friday before Columbus Day. And while that day may not be a big Amtrak travel day in many parts of the country, it must be a big travel day in areas that contribute a very high fraction of Amtrak revenues overall. I am assuming that this applies to the NEC. So, unless Amtrak decides to install region-specific blackout dates (not likely, in my opinion), they will just black out that Friday-before-Columbus-Day for all AGR travel. They have also implemented such blacks on dates AROUND (although not necessarily ON) other national holidays like Christmas, Thanksgiving, Labor Day, Independence Day, Memorial Day, Easter, and Presidents Day.
It may be that the current AGR system is skewed towards the large population on the East Coast. If the majority of AGR customers are East coast travelers they head into two zone trips West rather quickly. This aids in having East coast travelers use their points faster and on shorter trips. This provides a financial benefit to Amtrak. Amtrak would rather do this than give out the occasional EB or CZ trip from CHI.
