west point
Engineer
Hope some one can come up with a track diagram for the lower level of WASH US. Especially how track 22 is going to avoid the sub basement problem at the throat of the 1st stree tunnel.
Washington DC Union Station redevelpment plans
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Wasn't too hard to find. Starts on page 292.
How much of the congestion there would be relieved if Amtrak used the same boarding procedure as every other railroad, i.e. tell people which track their train is on and leave it to them to be on the platform when it comes? The airline-style gate check is a huge bottleneck IMO, and rebuilding the station (expensive) to relieve congestion before even trying operational changes (cheap) seems foolish.
I'm also a bit perplexed by the lack of any obvious mention of the subway in the documents I've seen about this.
I love the planned renovation but can't help but wonder if it's really the best use of $10 billion in scarce transportation funding. That's enough money to electrify every passenger route in Virginia and the Carolinas with enough left over to do some serious curve straightening on the NEC.
I'm also a bit perplexed by the lack of any obvious mention of the subway in the documents I've seen about this.
I love the planned renovation but can't help but wonder if it's really the best use of $10 billion in scarce transportation funding. That's enough money to electrify every passenger route in Virginia and the Carolinas with enough left over to do some serious curve straightening on the NEC.
west point
Engineer
Skimmed the WASH US EIS on redoing the tracks and platforms. Option 14 is the choice. The station will have to run on a very tight on time schedule. The overhaul will rotate shut downs of many of the tracks and platforms. It appears that all the operators will need to arrive on time and depart on time during the years of construction. As well quicker turn times. The higher NEC speeds may mean no reductions in schedules. Instead keep WASH from getting out of sync.
Consideration of changing the thru trains to Diesel power at PHL was also mentioned. That happening when several of the lower level tracks will be out of service especially for the sub basement overhaul. It seems that the sub baement overhaul is key to much of the other works. However it appears work cannot start until Amtrak gets control of the station lease. Part of the station above the sub basement is not part of Amtrak's lease.
The thru put of the 1st street tunnel is limited to one train at a time due to diesel emissions. Ventilation cannot really be improved as new ventilation shafts would exit on the capitol grounds.
Consideration of changing the thru trains to Diesel power at PHL was also mentioned. That happening when several of the lower level tracks will be out of service especially for the sub basement overhaul. It seems that the sub baement overhaul is key to much of the other works. However it appears work cannot start until Amtrak gets control of the station lease. Part of the station above the sub basement is not part of Amtrak's lease.
The thru put of the 1st street tunnel is limited to one train at a time due to diesel emissions. Ventilation cannot really be improved as new ventilation shafts would exit on the capitol grounds.
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This document lists projects involving Washington Union Station that are of relevance to this thread
Seems as if electrifying the 1st Street tunnel is critical. With the the next generation of NEC trains on order being dual-mode this would seem to be doable. Does anyone know its vertical clearance?
west point
Engineer
Agree about eletrifying both bores. We do know that both bores will clear Superliners but not double stacks. How close it would be from top of rail to CAT have no idea. Might have to use a power rail system. It may depend on if the ceiling is mostly flat or curved. Too curved a ceiling the pan might short out on the ceiling? Maybe soeone can find a clearance diagram. Maybe 1st street bores will need notching.
But none of this can be done until Amtrak gets full control of the sub basement area as part of the whole station. Have no idea if track 22 work can connect to the tunnel bores tracks until Amtrak gets control.
Electrifying to ALX is important but dealing with CAT on CSX tracks ??? IMO this is one more reason that the second Long Bridge is completed as soon as possible along with 4 tracking from 1st street to ALX.
For what it is worth, here you go. The original drawings for your perusal.
Transactions of the American Society of Civil Engineers : American Society of Civil Engineers : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
v. 29-30 include papers of the International Engineering Congress, Chicago, 1893; v. 54 includes papers of the International Engineering Congress, St. Louis,...
archive.org
Nominally the limiting clearance is 17' from ToR to crown, though most of it would appear to be 18' from ToR to the crown. It seems feasible to lower the ToR by a foot or two, so with some effort it would appear that electrification is feasible with even adequate clearance for 25kV.. Due to the structure of the tunnel, notching may be difficult.
west point
Engineer
jis : agree. If the rest of the tunnel bores are the same as those above the sub basement. Have often wondered why CAT only went 400 feet into the bores.
Ryan
Court Jester
What good would extending it further into the tunnel have done in the past?
VentureForth
Engineer
Wow. This thread started 10 years ago and literally nothing has been moved forward on at WAS.
Better take a trip and see the work being done on Track 22.
This was from a year ago. It was a lot further along the last time I passed through, which was in March 2022 or thereabouts.
west point
Engineer
Descriptions and better still photos would be info on track 22 approaches to the 1st street tunnel.
west point
Engineer
Theere is another surprize when thumbing through the 2035 service tables. There are no additional LD services south of WASH Union Station planned.. That seems to iexclude a third train to Florida and any day train to / from ATL.
As long as the total train count remains the same, which trains are designated Intercity and which LD is a detail that is a matter that usually gets resolved on an ongoing basis way after the thing is built, if it is that is. So beyond the total train count, the operating patterns and division of the count among different types is not something that at least I worry about at this stage.
But yeah, I had noticed that when I read the document the first time many weeks back.
The law was changed in about 2008 to make clear that Amtrak has to fund operations of long distance trains itself while regional trains (less than 750 miles) are now "state-supported" service. I don't think that there has been a new long distance train established for years; it would, essentially, take an act of Congress. The real problem with this construct is that it doesn't accommodate long regional day trains serving multiple city pairs: NYC-Atlanta, NYC-Chicago, or Chicago-Florida.
west point
Engineer
I think that I may spoken too soon about future sevice south. It could be that Amtrak might take some regionals that stop at Richmond and extend them farther into Florida. Probably 1st extend Palmetto? Even a daytime R/T to ATL could initiate by my preferred route of ATL - Raleigh - Richmond = WASH Esp by the "S" line. Another trip by Crescent route only has Danville with just one R/T. CVS will have 3-1/2 R/Ts by July 11th and if Cardinal ever goes daily>??? then 4 R/Ts. Lynchburgh 3 RTs.
This does not even consider the Texacan by way of ATL if CP gets the Meridian speedway..
This does not even consider the Texacan by way of ATL if CP gets the Meridian speedway..
Mailliw
OBS Chief
I'm having lunch right now at Unos before catching my train, it's really depressing upstairs. Mostly dark and empty storefronts.
Mall's, which is what Union Station had been turned into before the Pandemic are a Dying Breed, so more Trains are what is needed @ Union Station.
Mailliw
OBS Chief
Also what is up with the seating in the waiting areas now? There are huge empty spaces where seats used to be, but remaining seats are all close together pre-pandemic style.
I think they did that to eliminate long lines in the "hallway" between the gates and stores
west point
Engineer
Speculation: It may be that the primary leasee holder is requiring Amtrak to stay into the limits of Amtrak's sub leasee. Sort of a payback on Amtrak's Eminent Domain filing for complete control of Union Station?. If someone has access to a diagram of Amtrak's actual lease limits that would probably counter this speculation.
Anyone know the status of Amtrak's lawsuit to get full control of Union Station?
I personally won't miss Starbucks, but hate to see this place deteriorate.
I personally won't miss Starbucks, but hate to see this place deteriorate.
danasgoodstuff
Lead Service Attendant
Pay walled.
joelkfla
Engineer
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