What's wrong with being a railfan???

[Allen Dee]

By now, every one knows that David Gunn, the new CEO of Amtrak, is a railfan. I wish him the best of luck and hope that he can turn things around.

Years ago, anyone who hired on with a railroad who showed the least bit of tendency that he was a railfan was immediately let go. It was a kiss of death.

Hopefully, that has all changed now. Best of luck to you kids on the forum who wish to pursue railroad careers.

 

[Steve4031]

I applied for a job with Amtrak, and i think that my being a railfan was the kiss of death for me too. But man, after a few trip on the Lakeshore with those nasty waiters, I think Amtrak should hire some railfans to work on their trains.

I found some other people who are skeptical of railfans too. You know what, they can just be out of my life. Riding a train is the one thing that makes me happy EVERY time I do it. If someone wants to try to take that away from me, they are messing with there life!

 

[Viewliner]

But wouldn't hiring railfans be a good idea? After all, we'd know our route, enjoy our job, and thus treat the "Guests" better than many non-railfans.

 

[AlanB]

But wouldn't hiring railfans be a good idea? After all, we'd know our route, enjoy our job, and thus treat the "Guests" better than many non-railfans.

One would think that it is a good idea to hire railfans for that very reason. However, I can think of two reasons why management wouldn't think it's a good idea. One they might be worried that you'd spend too much time enjoying the ride and not working. Second, and far more important, you'd probably know more than they do about trains and would eventually threaten their jobs. No manager wants to be shown up by his or her employee, let alone be replaced by him or her.

This is something that Miami Joe can attest to. From what he's posted on the board, it seems that he frequently bangs his head into the wall trying to convince his managers of the right way to do things. Even then Joe has to carefully pick his battles, because they’d probably fire him if he complained about every ass-backwards thing that they do down there in Hialeah.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I understand the points made above.., and it does not seem fair.....here is just a little thought which stems partly from what Alan B. said, that we might spend too much time enjoying the ride and not enough time working. It is possible that actually working with it day in and day might make the experience turn a little sour for some of us. Some of us like Miami Joe and others manage it quite well. B-51 obviously enjoys doing what he does...but many of us would rather sit back, snooze, look out the window, walk around from one end ot the other but not be responsible for 1,000 different things, i.e. getting people off in the middle of the night and such. Still....if you WANT to, you ought to be able.

 

[Amfleet]

Everytime I ride in a sleeper I always tend to become the car attendent. Some times he/she will leave the service area meey so I help cleaning it up, I always wipe the counter tops on the bathrooms if they are flooded with water, and at night I ussually pull down the beds in my room. I just do this on my own time too. So idon't think I'll would close myself into my room and listen to my scanner all day. I like talking with other passengers.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I have been known to help clean up also...sometimes there is a lot of standing water on counter tops, etc. I have also found myself in theposition of answering a question for ONE person and those around chiming in and asking me questions. Sometimes that will happen at stations. Funny thing happened to me one night years ago in an old fashioned dome...it was night, lights out....one person in the darkness asked a question, of anybody. And I answered...there they began popping up all over, asking operational questions. FInally I got "over it" and snuck downstairs...which I could get away with, it being dark. I think this was on the pre-Amtrak Texas Eagle. I have another memory, long, long ago in the old Chicago Union Station...I was standing in line. at the ticket window..somebody in lineasked a question, which I answered...before I knew it I was being overrun with questions...the amazing thing is that they trusted me...stupid overweight kid with southern accent...I gave everbody the best answers I knew...hope none of them were wrong. i

 

[Steve4031]

Hey,

Amtrak already has people sleeping and doing a crappy job. So maybe they should hire railfans. IF they do the right thing, everybody wins. If a railfan sleeps on the job, its no different then any other employee

 

[tp49]

Sometimes I wonder if some Amtrak employees have taken a page from the Postal Service customer service playbook and have what is sometimes referred to as "Civil Service Mentality." Some of them act as though they are entitled to their jobs and either neglect their duties or are outright rude to the customers.

Personally, I've only encountered one really rude conductor on the southbound Adirondack between Montreal and Albany (where thankfully the crew changed). When she lifted our tickets she noticed my scanner and said "Oh great a buffer" then proceded to tell me that I had no right to listen in on the crew's conversations.

When I was in the lounge car I head the same conductor berating a passenger who was switching cars because the air conditioning was too strong. I'm arthritic and can understand his complaint.

I agree totally with Alan's comments as to why being a railfan could be the kiss of death. However, I think from a public relations standpoint it could be good because railfan employees are probably going to be the most enthusiastic about coming to work and going that extra stem to ensure a positive travel experience which hopefully leads to repeat business. Besides there are or should be safeguards that if any employee is not working up to standards they can be disciplined for it.

 

[Amfleet]

With my new scanner I just tucked in into the seat pocket, put the antenna down, and plugged in my earphones. For all the conductors could have known is that I was listen to a dicsman or something. I did that because of circumstances like that.

 

[Guest]

Sometimes I wonder if some Amtrak employees have taken a page from the Postal Service customer service playbook and have what is sometimes referred to as "Civil Service Mentality." Some of them act as though they are entitled to their jobs and either neglect their duties or are outright rude to the customers.
Personally, I've only encountered one really rude conductor on the southbound Adirondack between Montreal and Albany (where thankfully the crew changed). When she lifted our tickets she noticed my scanner and said "Oh great a buffer" then proceded to tell me that I had no right to listen in on the crew's conversations.

When I was in the lounge car I head the same conductor berating a passenger who was switching cars because the air conditioning was too strong. I'm arthritic and can understand his complaint.

I agree totally with Alan's comments as to why being a railfan could be the kiss of death. However, I think from a public relations standpoint it could be good because railfan employees are probably going to be the most enthusiastic about coming to work and going that extra stem to ensure a positive travel experience which hopefully leads to repeat business. Besides there are or should be safeguards that if any employee is not working up to standards they can be disciplined for it.

I have never been berated by an Amtrak crew member for being a railfan. One time when I was riding the Coast Starlight, the Chief OBS actually approached me to ask questions about a delay caused by mechanical problems.

Whenever I travel by any mode (rail, air, or bus) I am always very helpful to the other passengers. Conductors, flight attendants, bus drivers, and even pilots have many times thanked me for assisting them with their passengers.

 

[Allen Dee]

Sometimes I wonder if some Amtrak employees have taken a page from the Postal Service customer service playbook and have what is sometimes referred to as "Civil Service Mentality."  Some of them act as though they are entitled to their jobs and either neglect their duties or are outright rude to the customers.  
Personally, I've only encountered one really rude conductor on the southbound Adirondack between Montreal and Albany (where thankfully the crew changed).  When she lifted our tickets she noticed my scanner and said "Oh great a buffer" then proceded to tell me that I had no right to listen in on the crew's conversations.

When I was in the lounge car I head the same conductor berating a passenger who was switching cars because the air conditioning was too strong.  I'm arthritic and can understand his complaint.

I agree totally with Alan's comments as to why being a railfan could be the kiss of death.  However, I think from a public relations standpoint it could be good because railfan employees are probably going to be the most enthusiastic about coming to work and going that extra stem to ensure a positive travel experience which hopefully leads to repeat business.  Besides there are or should be safeguards that if any employee is not working up to standards they can be disciplined for it.

I have never been berated by an Amtrak crew member for being a railfan. One time when I was riding the Coast Starlight, the Chief OBS actually approached me to ask questions about a delay caused by mechanical problems.

Whenever I travel by any mode (rail, air, or bus) I am always very helpful to the other passengers. Conductors, flight attendants, bus drivers, and even pilots have many times thanked me for assisting them with their passengers.

Oops, this was my post.

I forgot to log in.

 

[Amfleet]

If I was a car attendent I think I woud actually carry a scanner becasue I want to keep my passengers informed. I think that really makes the difference. You'll notice most passengers ranting on about why we were stopped in the middle of no where for 2 hours without any info.

 

[Viewliner]

If I was a car attendent I think I woud actually carry a scanner becasue I want to keep my passengers informed. I think that really makes the difference. You'll notice most passengers ranting on about why we were stopped in the middle of no where for 2 hours without any info.

That is a good idea, but just make sure you can still hear the passengers. Also most Car attendants probably can't afford a scanner.

 

[Allen Dee]

With my new scanner I just tucked in into the seat pocket, put the antenna down, and plugged in my earphones. For all the conductors could have known is that I was listen to a dicsman or something. I did that because of circumstances like that.

I always use the headphones so as not to disturb the other passengers. I could care less what most of the crew members think.

 

[RandyJay]

Here's a thought for you - Many big companies routinely employ people to act as "secret shoppers" that travel around acting as regular customers to check up on store appearance, employee performance, food quality, etc. and deliver unbiased reports back to company management. Probably a good thing, too.

Now if David Gunn should decide to really get serious on the quality issues (and I'm sure he will), what could be better than a staff of dedicated railfans working as "undercover" passengers? You know, being paid to ride trains and just observe. Heck, he wouldn't even have to pay most of us! I think I could handle a month or two of riding every Amtrak route on a free ticket (deluxe sleeper, of course).

And who better to really know what good service should be like, and at the same time also understand all of the things that are beyond the individual employee's control. After a few months I bet you would see quality drastically improve across the board.

To me a railfan would be a shoe-in for such a job. Well, except for Battalion51 that is, since 90% of Amtrak crews already know him on a first-name basis! ~~~~~ LOL

OK, I'll wake up now - but it was such a nice dream.

 

[Allen Dee]

But wouldn't hiring railfans be a good idea?  After all, we'd know our route, enjoy our job, and thus treat the "Guests" better than many non-railfans.

One would think that it is a good idea to hire railfans for that very reason. However, I can think of two reasons why management wouldn't think it's a good idea. One they might be worried that you'd spend too much time enjoying the ride and not working. Second, and far more important, you'd probably know more than they do about trains and would eventually threaten their jobs. No manager wants to be shown up by his or her employee, let alone be replaced by him or her.

This is something that Miami Joe can attest to. From what he's posted on the board, it seems that he frequently bangs his head into the wall trying to convince his managers of the right way to do things. Even then Joe has to carefully pick his battles, because they’d probably fire him if he complained about every ass-backwards thing that they do down there in Hialeah.

I have never worked for a railroad. I am not only a railfan, but a total transportation fan (including buses and airplanes, where I spent 25 years of my life working).

I hired on with Greyhound as a baggage man at the age of 19. I worked myself up through the ranks to Operations Manager. I left the company in 1981 just before it started to tank.

I never worked for an airline, but I did work for a few contract maintenance facilities as a Line Maintenance Aircraft Mechanic.

I am sure that my intense avocational interest in all things transportation helped me in all of these endeavors.

I left the business in 1991 and have been doing quite well as an industrial maintenance mechanic.

But I do miss it somewhat, the smell of Jet-A and diesel exhaust and all.

 

[Amfleet]

It's interesting you bring up the smells of when working on airplanes, because with trains it's the same. The one thing that reminds me of a train is the smell of the tar off a wooden cross-tie. It may sound stupid, but it's the truth.

 

[AlanB]

The one thing that reminds me of a train is the smell of the tar off a wooden cross-tie. It may sound stupid, but it's the truth.

Oh boy, you better start getting over smelling that smell. Thanks to the new concrete ties that many RR's are starting to use, that tar smell is becoming history.

 

[AlanB]

First, I personally do think that hiring railfans would be a good idea, after all as someone else pointed out most pilots like flying. I was merely pointing out reasons why management might not hire railfans.

Second, there are no laws that prohibit the use of scanners. The crew may not like it, but the airwaves are free to all who want to listen. You might find that they try to curtail what they say on the radio. But as long as you don't disturb the other passengers or tell them what you are hearing, the crew can't stop you from listening. On the other hand there are many crewmembers that don't mind your eavesdropping, in part because railfans are usually more tolerant of delays because we understand the reasons behind them. We also tend to be less demanding since we know what to expect and fully realize that we are not checking into the Ritz Hotel or some cruise ship.

That said I usually travel with my scanner hooked on my belt and under my shirt, just so I avoid any controversy. When I’m traveling on long distance overnight trains, then the sleeping car attendant if they are paying attention will see my scanner sitting in the window. But when I’m moving about on the train, it’s once again under my shirt.

Finally Randy Jay, if you ever get an invite from Amtrak to be a shopper, please let me know. I’d be very happy to do that too. Just comp me a sleeper like you said, and I’m there. That really would be a neat idea and it certainly would help to pinpoint the problem employees.

 

[tp49]

I probably should clarify that I had my scanner placed in the on the edge of the seat where the back and armrest meet and my body was blocking it to some extent and I was using headphones. The conductor saw me turning it on as she lifted the ticket while we were just leaving the station. Giving her the benefit of the doubt maybe it was her last trip before her "weekend" but she could have been nicer.

Some states and municipalities do limit or restrict the use of radio scanners. Sec. 397 of the New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law strictly prohibits scanners from motor vehicles unless you have the permission of the governing body of the municipality you are in unless you are licensed by the FCC to use such equipment. For brevity I am leaving the statute's text out but could post it if necessary.

RandyJay, I love your idea and think it should be extended to airlines.

With the dismal customer service airlines provide, Amtrak could expand market share with leisure travelers who have more flexibility in their schedules to account for delays and other things. After all most people remember theor travel experiences by the service and treatment they received while on board. Who better to provide quality service on trains than railfans who want people to see how great and relaxing train travel is to help ensure repeat business.

 

[Steve4031]

I use a scanner, and never had problems. Sometimes, if I know the cause of a delay, I will explain to other passengers what the problem is. Most seem to understand and appreciate my efforts.

I have worked as a car host for the 20th century railclub on excursions to Galena, IL. We were asked to keep "our" cars cleaned, and to interact with passengers. We pass out detail route guides, and explain whats going on to the passengers. Most passengers on this train are not railfans, but are going to Galena for the annual Columbus day fair. These passengers were always impressed with our efforts. On one trip, I even had to deal with a group of noisy passengers who had been drinking a little too much. I got them to quiet down with a pleasant, professional approach.

Amtrak always seems to put some of its best employees on this trip. They always seem to be happy to be there, even though it is an extra train. On my first trip as a car host, I went to the sightseer lounge to get coffee. As I reached into my pocket for my wallet, the attendant said, "You dont have to pay, you are working today." I floated back to my car on cloud nine. In my mind, it was like stepping on to the floor of the United Center to play ball with the championship bulls, and then receiving a pass from MJ and scoring on a jump shot. LOL

 

[seajay]

That "tar" you're smelling is creosote, a very strong (and very caustic) wood preservative. The smell of it brings back memories for me, too, and not good ones. As a youth (well, a younger youth than I am now :lol: ), I spent too many hot summer days painting pole fences with that stuff. It's awful to work with. One drop on your skin can burn for days. Long pants, a long-sleeved shirt, gloves, and eye protection are required. That's not the most comfortable attire for a 95 degree day!

seajay

 

[AlanB]

Some states and municipalities do limit or restrict the use of radio scanners. Sec. 397 of the New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law strictly prohibits scanners from motor vehicles unless you have the permission of the governing body of the municipality you are in unless you are licensed by the FCC to use such equipment. For brevity I am leaving the statute's text out but could post it if necessary.

TP49,

While I haven't gone looking for the actual statute that you mention, two different people with Ham licenses have assured me that the NY law is somewhat narrow in its focus. They have indicated to me that it’s only illegal to be eavesdropping on Fire and Police bands while in your car, unless you have a hack license or some special exemption. So in theory I could use my scanner to listen in on the trains while in the car, provided that I have no police or fire frequencies entered in my scanner. I suppose that it could still lead to some interesting discussions trying to convince a police officer that I wasn’t scanning their bands.

Even worse in my case here in NY, I couldn’t prove that I don’t have a police band in my scanner. I’ve got all 96 of the AAR frequencies programmed into my scanner. The NYC Transit police used to be part of the MTA and therefore used an AAR frequency. When they were merged into the NYPD several years ago, it seems that the NYPD kept using that frequency. So if I scan all 96 AAR freqs, I can pick up police broadcasts on at least 2 of the AAR frequencies.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I really, really seriously like Randy Jay's idea....get me that comp delux bedroom and I am ready to observe and point out what the eployees are doing right and what they are doing bad. We railfans really are the ones who know what good service is.