Why So Heavy On The Horns at 4am - Jack London Square

[Pissed off & tired]

I recently moved to the Jack London Waterfront District in Oakland. Of course the apartment management company neglected to tell me and my girlfriend exactly how bad the train noise was in this area and at our apartment in particular before we moved in. Upon sleeping here the first night i was woken up multiple times from 4am-8am by the incessant blaring of the Amtrak train's horn. Is that really necessary? Holding down the horn for 10-15 seconds straight seems like overkill and complete disregard for the residence who live in this area. Anyone else dealing or troubled by this?

So frustrated! And of course moving is a pain and i just signed a 1 year lease. Thank you Amtrak conductors for unwanted and from my point of view unncessary horn honking!!

-Pissed off and Tired

 

[Ryan]

That's why you do research before moving into a place.

They wouldn't have to lay on the horn so much if the rules didn't state that they had to.

There wouldn't have to be that rule if idiots didn't put themselves in front of a moving train so often.

So don't blame Amtrak, blame the idiots.

 

[EK]

Then why is it that the first week it wasn't near as bad? You're telling me there have been people on or near the tracks every morning this past week? Sorry that sounds like an excuse. Many times during the day there is not a lot of horns blaring but then every morning between 4-8 there are tons of people on the train tracks? Hmm, sorry but i don't buy it. This is close to a station, this isn't a train running at high speed through a highly inhabited area. This is slowing to a stop at the station. Please explain why it is part of the rules to lay on the horns approaching and departing from a station.

 

[SarahZ]

It's federally mandated that they blow the horn when approaching a crossing. It doesn't matter if there is a car/pedestrian there or not. They have to, even if it's the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere.

This is why, when noticing the apartment was near train tracks, the first question should have been, "How often do the trains go by, and what is the noise like?"

The trains probably don't run as much during the day. If it's the line I'm thinking of, it has a lot of commuter traffic, so you're going to hear most of the noise first thing in the morning and then again when people are returning from work. 4:00 - 8:00 AM is prime time for commuters.

 

[the_traveler]

One reason the horns are used so much is that rules state the horn must be used at or approaching a station. Another rule state that it must be used whenever it crosses a grade (road) crossing. For a few blocks north of Jack London Square (train station) the rail line travels down the middle of the street!

That also means the grade crossing (where the horn must be used) is also a few blocks long! Also, in this stretch there are numerous vehicles and pedestrians crossing the tracks. (AKA driving on or walking across the street.)

 

[fairviewroad]

What Amtrak trains go through Jack London Square at 4 AM?

The first scheduled Amtrak train of the day, an eastbound Capitol Corridor train, departs OKJ at 0525.

Are there positioning runs that go through earlier? Or is the OP hearing non-Amtrak engines?

 

[MattW]

It's also cooler at night during the day. Cooler temperatures mean denser air, which means the sound travels better and will seem louder at night.

 

[zephyr17]

1. Blowing the horn is a federal mandate for all grade crossings. There are numerous grade crossings in the vicinity of Jack London Square. The City of Oakland can do upgrades to the crossings, like 4 quadrant crossing gates, and apply for a FRA "Quiet Zone", but unless and until that work is done and Quiet Zone status granted, blowing the horn is required by Federal law.

2. Those are UP tracks. While heavily used by Amtrak, at 4am some of those horns will be Union Pacific freight trains, not Amtrak.

3. Conductors don't blow the horns on passenger trains. They are back with the passengers, not in the cab.

4. You did notice the railroad tracks were there before signing the lease, right? Did it occur to you that they may host trains and trains are noisy?

5. This board has no official connection to Amtrak. It is a discussion forum for those interested in Amtrak. If you think you think you are taking a complaint to Amtrak, you have not succeeded. In any case, if you want to complain about a Federal law, take it up with your Congress Critter.

 

[the_traveler]

I believe that track is also the mainline for UP. Also, commuter lines may use that track. (That I'm not sure of, but isn't there another rail yard next to the Amtrak yard a few miles north? :huh: )

 

[tp49]

No commuter lines use that track. It's UP freight of which there is a lot of going through there, the Capital Corridor, San Joaquins and the CS/CZ.

 

[SarahZ]

It's also cooler at night during the day. Cooler temperatures mean denser air, which means the sound travels better and will seem louder at night.

This is true, along with the reduction in ambient noise. I can't hear local freight trains during the day, but at night, when there's hardly any traffic on our street and the air is clear, it sounds like they're only a few blocks away.

 

[TinCan782]

What Amtrak trains go through Jack London Square at 4 AM?

The first scheduled Amtrak train of the day, an eastbound Capitol Corridor train, departs OKJ at 0525.

Are there positioning runs that go through earlier? Or is the OP hearing non-Amtrak engines?

AFAIK, those are Union Pacific tracks...Amtrak is a "guest" there. In the wee hours of the morning, I'd guess most of the traffic is freight.

 

[BCL]

1. Blowing the horn is a federal mandate for all grade crossings. There are numerous grade crossings in the vicinity of Jack London Square. The City of Oakland can do upgrades to the crossings, like 4 quadrant crossing gates, and apply for a FRA "Quiet Zone", but unless and until that work is done and Quiet Zone status granted, blowing the horn is required by Federal law.

2. Those are UP tracks. While heavily used by Amtrak, at 4am some of those horns will be Union Pacific freight trains, not Amtrak.

It's not simply a crossing. The trains are literally passing through the street. I've driven there and stopped along the side as a train passed through. There are parts that you can drive through the tracks, but they've got cross-hatches near the intersections to discourage anyone from stopping on the tracks.

UP has a huge yard there next to JLS that's used for intermodal transfer of containers.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7971894,-122.285121,15z

I looked up the CC schedule, and the first train to Sac leaves at 5:30. The first train to San Jose arrives at about 6:21. If anything else is making noise, it's freight, and those can be really long.

I live about a good two miles from the UP tracks, and I can hear the horns on a warm night. The noise seems to carry better in warm weather.

 

[Can_You_Hear_Me_Now?]

This is true, along with the reduction in ambient noise. I can't hear local freight trains during the day, but at night, when there's hardly any traffic on our street and the air is clear, it sounds like they're only a few blocks away.

I agree. In the early morning hours on the weekend, I can be outside and hear the horns of freight trains at intersections which are about 8 miles away.

 

[MetraUPWest]

As already stated, there are regulations specifically laid out by the FRA in regards to horn use. These regulations are specifically laid out in GCOR (General Code of Operating Rules) rule 5.8.2, signal 11, which states

"Trains traveling at 45 mph or above approaching public crossings at grade with engine in front, start signal not less than 1/4 mile before reaching crossing, if distance permits. If distance does not permit, start signal soon enough before the crossing to provide warning. Prolong or repeat signal until engine occupies the crossing. Trains traveling under 45mph much start signal at least 15 seconds but not more than 20 seconds before occupying crossing."

If that procedure is not followed EXACTLY, any responsibility for any type of crossing incident then falls on the engineer for not following the whistle regulation. As an engineer, I am NOT taking responsibility for some idiot trespassing on the tracks. Sorry the whistle bothers you, but blowing it- even at 4am- is my job, and I take it VERY seriously.

If you live near tracks, either get used to it or move.

 

[SarahZ]

And then there are those of us who love the sound of trains and have always lived near railroad tracks on purpose.

 

[BCL]

As already stated, there are regulations specifically laid out by the FRA in regards to horn use. These regulations are specifically laid out in GCOR (General Code of Operating Rules) rule 5.8.2, signal 11, which states

"Trains traveling at 45 mph or above approaching public crossings at grade with engine in front, start signal not less than 1/4 mile before reaching crossing, if distance permits. If distance does not permit, start signal soon enough before the crossing to provide warning. Prolong or repeat signal until engine occupies the crossing. Trains traveling under 45mph much start signal at least 15 seconds but not more than 20 seconds before occupying crossing."

If that procedure is not followed EXACTLY, any responsibility for any type of crossing incident then falls on the engineer for not following the whistle regulation. As an engineer, I am NOT taking responsibility for some idiot trespassing on the tracks. Sorry the whistle bothers you, but blowing it- even at 4am- is my job, and I take it VERY seriously.

If you live near tracks, either get used to it or move.

The tracks at Jack London Square are literally running down the length of the street. If anything, they blowing their horns to give a big hint that it's a bad idea to make a turn or change lanes.

 

[George Harris]

Dear Guest: If you feel that you are not getting a lot of sympathy for your plight, you got it right. As has been said, the railroad was there FIRST. Blowing horn for crossings is the LAW. You should have looked for what was around before committing yourself. Maybe the rent seemed cheap. Guess what! There was a reason. your complaint comes across as, oops, we built the bridge too low, so we must lower the river because we don't want to make the bridge higher. For those of us who grew up near railroads in the days before air conditioning so that trains runnign on jointed rail and blowing horns for grade crossings were part of our lives, we find all these complainers about railroad noise in the days of airconditioning and welded rails on the tracks as self centered whining. Get over it.

As has been said, most of the night trains are freight. Why are you not complaining about the day trains as well?

There is hope. After a while you will get used to it. You will adjust. The train noise will become part of your ambience and you will barely notice it. You simply have to recognize it as part of your reality.

 

[SubwayNut]

Trains go down the middle of the street, it would be impossible to make Jack London Square a quiet zone, with the four quadrant gates and fences that are required.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

1. Blowing the horn is a federal mandate for all grade crossings. There are numerous grade crossings in the vicinity of Jack London Square. The City of Oakland can do upgrades to the crossings, like 4 quadrant crossing gates, and apply for a FRA "Quiet Zone", but unless and until that work is done and Quiet Zone status granted, blowing the horn is required by Federal law.

Is it possible to make a street running segment a quiet zone? Here in San Antonio we have several quiet zones, even around the airport of all places, but none of them involve street running.

 

[Ryan]

Sure, close the street.

 

[FriskyFL]

Did Rush tell ya to say Amtrak?

 

[NorthShore]

You may well be right to complain about the landlord not telling you what to expect in advance. But, then, it's "buyer beware", and if you saw the tracks (how could you miss them?) you probably ought to have asked. Chalk it up to a learning experience in renting negotiations and living in "the big city."

 

[Hope]

So I don't know what is going on But we're getting that train horn noise too. Where the heck do I complain. I don't mind if it was ONE long 10 second blare through the intersection but it sounds like an angry person driving after getting cut off and being a baby. they honk that 6-7 times at two three and four second intervals I've had enough, they are going to have to build a sound wall. BTW I live 4 blocks away from the tracks.

 

[Paulus]

So I don't know what is going on But we're getting that train horn noise too. Where the heck do I complain. I don't mind if it was ONE long 10 second blare through the intersection but it sounds like an angry person driving after getting cut off and being a baby. they honk that 6-7 times at two three and four second intervals I've had enough, they are going to have to build a sound wall. BTW I live 4 blocks away from the tracks.

Complain to your city council and ask that they work with the railroads to create a quiet zone.