Will full service dining ever return to the Western trains?

[tgstubbs1]

Colorado has had various mandatory shutdowns of various businesses like restaurants and bars.

 

[Barb Stout]

While it may be true that many prefer to fly because it is faster - let's not forget about those who drive and take just as long, or longer, than the train takes. In talking to people I have found that many are surprised that there is a passenger train. They didn't take the train, not because it took too long, but because they never thought of it.

Amtrak does not advertise - at least not effectively. The old adage actually is true - out-of-sight-out-of-mind. I have had many people tell me "I wish I had known I could take the train from Florida to NY" when I told them about my experiences on Amtrak.

Amtrak does not need everyone who wants to travel from point A to B to fill trains. They just need enough! Sounds simple. But, when the majority of people are unaware of a product or service they don't use it no matter how many changes to the product or service they make.

The way to make any business profitable is to get more customers. Reducing services or cutting corners seldom gets the desired results. Making more people aware of your product/service is a far better way to attract more customers and thus increase profits ... something Amtrak does not seem to understand (or refuses to do)

If there were proper advertising of Amtrak people may be surprised at how many people would use LD trains - there is certainly enough to keep Interstate crowded ... many of who would gladly ride than drive

Yes, I was in my late 50s when I realized that I could take the train. And that was only because a friend had taken it from Chicago to where I live.

 

[Nick Farr]

Likewise, even though taking a train has nothing to do with taking a cruise ship - people only have so much money to spend. When it comes to travel - all forms of travel are competing for the "travel dollar". Airlines, cars, RV's, cruse ships and trains. They do not compete ONLY in their own "category" they are all vying same money ... money that is in shorter supply with the aftermath (or continuing dilemma) of COVID-19

Especially as budgets tighten, this becomes far more relevant.

Amtrak appears to be going exclusively for the captive "railroad dollars": People who are going to take the train because that's what they want to do. I don't see Amtrak competing for "travel dollars". Of course, the former is a fraction of the latter and as the latter shrinks so does the former.

So, in a way, Amtrak is not the same thing as a cruise. Cruise people cruise, Train people take the train.

But there are a lot of travelers that are looking for travel ideas. I think that the "travel dollar" market is looking for new ideas of things to do. However--Amtrak is not competing for travel dollars. It's a safer, more comfortable, less stressful way to move about the country in pandemic times and I don't think they're wisely pitching themselves as that option.

Amtrak's core problem is complacency, letting the "railroad dollars" roll in while it leaves the "travel dollar" on the table.

 

[Nick Farr]

Basically, if you want to get peoples money - you have to give them a reason to spend it with YOU and not someone else ... something Amtrak is not currently doing

Why can't we do Amtrak's advertising for it?

 

[me_little_me]

Why can't we do Amtrak's advertising for it?

Amtrak doesn't want us.

 

[Qapla]

Why can't we do Amtrak's advertising for it?

Now there's an idea - maybe someone should start a "Go Fund Me" for Amtrak advertising and see what happens

 

[Sauve850]

While it may be true that many prefer to fly because it is faster - let's not forget about those who drive and take just as long, or longer, than the train takes. In talking to people I have found that many are surprised that there is a passenger train. They didn't take the train, not because it took too long, but because they never thought of it.

Amtrak does not advertise - at least not effectively. The old adage actually is true - out-of-sight-out-of-mind. I have had many people tell me "I wish I had known I could take the train from Florida to NY" when I told them about my experiences on Amtrak.

Amtrak does not need everyone who wants to travel from point A to B to fill trains. They just need enough! Sounds simple. But, when the majority of people are unaware of a product or service they don't use it no matter how many changes to the product or service they make.

The way to make any business profitable is to get more customers. Reducing services or cutting corners seldom gets the desired results. Making more people aware of your product/service is a far better way to attract more customers and thus increase profits ... something Amtrak does not seem to understand (or refuses to do)

If there were proper advertising of Amtrak people may be surprised at how many people would use LD trains - there is certainly enough to keep Interstate crowded ... many of who would gladly ride than drive

From years of experience the way I made my business successful was to treat all my existing customers exceptionally well. I only wanted a fair share of the market dollars for my company. Superior service was given. I had no need to do expensive advertising to the general public as they provided me with all the new customers I could ever want who in turn were treated equally as well. Recurring revenue was the result. I was not in the transportation business nor a national company but served the same people. There were about a million people in our area at that time and for sure the majority never had heard of my company. Over time that did change. Amtrak has older equipment on most routes, food issues and some not so great employees at times, etc. Its a long road and Im not sure they can overcome these obstacles anytime soon. I hope so and agree there needs to be a reason to take the train. Although not qualified I would do things different but so would everyone on this forum that offers good advice.

 

[Willbridge]

Speaking of Durango, there was a Covid19 outbreak in Silverton, but it was in a business that "is closed to the public". I am curious about what businesses would be closed to the public in a tourist town. And I suppose I shouldn't be mentioning this in this particular thread, but this is my way of breaking rules.

Silverton cases may have been in a small office, such as an accountant or insurance broker.

 

[Willbridge]

Yes, I was in my late 50s when I realized that I could take the train. And that was only because a friend had taken it from Chicago to where I live.

That problem has stuck in my head since I came home from overseas in 1971 and found that a lot of people thought that all trains had been discontinued that May. I was on a city bus on the bridge going over Portland's Union Station platforms when I overheard a lady saying to a friend that "it's too bad they don't have passenger trains anymore." I looked down and could see one as she said that.

In the 1960's there was a suspicion that the SP used train-off applications to drive down ridership. They would file an extreme demand, get the sappy news stories about how the trains were busy in WWII, and then accept a compromise with regulators for cuts of one sort or another (they had an inventory of evil). Media coverage could barely explain the technical cuts. so there would be little published. TV was even worse. Then a couple of years later they'd come back again, showing the ridership drop. When commercial whiz Stan Freberg, a regular overnight business traveler on the SF<>LA Coast Line. offered to provide them with free radio spots they turned him down.

Cynics said that the slogan was/is? "Next time hide the train."

 

[John-MCPO-USN]

Rode #5, #11, #14 and on #8 right now - and talked (at length) with the crews of each train - and all stated the same thing "traditional dining will never return"......at least nowhere in the near future - but that was the only thing all 4 journeys shared in common - other than that, each journey had a different set of dining procedures and processes....

 

[Steve4031]

Let's not forget that the biggest reason hardly anyone takes Amtrak's long distance trains isn't because of Flex Dining. It's because it takes four days instead of five hours to get across the country, or two days instead of two hours from NY-FL.

It is just not a practical way for most people to travel, no matter what they are or aren't serving for dinner.

Then why were trains sold out or nearly full in the summer and around holidays.

 

[jruff001]

Then why were trains sold out or nearly full in the summer and around holidays.

I'm not sure what that proves (maybe that they should raise their fares even more at peak periods, or could cut on-board service offerings still further?)

It's still a miniscule percentage of total intercity travel in the U.S.

 

[niemi24s]

It's still a miniscule percentage of total intercity travel in the U.S.

And exactly what, pray tell, is that miniscule percentage?

 

[Steve4031]

I'm not sure what that proves (maybe that they should raise their fares even more at peak periods, or could cut on-board service offerings still further?)

It's still a miniscule percentage of total intercity travel in the U.S.

I honestly wonder why this guy is participating in a forum intended to discuss and advocate for passenger trains.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I honestly wonder why this guy is participating in a forum intended to discuss and advocate for passenger trains.

It’s always good to see things from another perspective.

Long distance rail is a questionable investment. In my opinion the country should make a decision to do it right and have multiple frequencies daily per route... or just pull the plug and leave it up to the states.

What we have right now, isn’t worth saving imho.

 

[jis]

It’s always good to see things from another perspective.

Long distance rail is a questionable investment. In my opinion the country should make a decision to do it right and have multiple frequencies daily per route... or just pull the plug and leave it up to the states.

What we have right now, isn’t worth saving imho.

Now some will start wondering why you are participating too

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It’s always good to see things from another perspective.

Other than bashing other people's posts what sort of perspective is he bringing to the forum? I don't see new and useful insights so much as low effort trolling.

Long distance rail is a questionable investment. In my opinion the country should make a decision to do it right and have multiple frequencies daily per route... or just pull the plug and leave it up to the states. What we have right now, isn’t worth saving imho.

It's fine to be unhappy with the service and to stop using it when it no longer appeals to you, but once it's gone it's probably gone forever. I'd rather leave a flawed network that future generations can hopefully build upon rather than leaving them nothing at all simply because it wasn't good enough for my needs.

 

[jruff001]

And exactly what, pray tell, is that miniscule percentage?

Google is your friend, but I would say less than one percent would count as "miniscule."

Long Distance Travel Mode
Based on the 20012002 NHTS data, Americans take 2.6 billion long-distance trips per year, or 7.2 million trips per day. Almost 9 out of 10 long-distance trips are taken by personal vehicle,[2] and about 10 percent use public transportation modes. Over 7 percent of long-distance trips are taken by air, while 2 percent are by bus (including scheduled, charter, and other bus trips). Train travel represents almost 1 percent of long-distance trips. Table 1 in the Appendix shows the breakdown by mode.

(Note that is almost 20 years old. I spent a few minutes on Google to find it and is the first relevant cite I came across. I am not inclined to spend more time searching for something more recent as I don't generally do other people's research for free, but if you think the numbers have significantly changed, feel free to share a different cite.)

 

[crescent-zephyr]

It's fine to be unhappy with the service and to stop using it when it no longer appeals to you, but once it's gone it's probably gone forever. I'd rather leave a flawed network that future generations can hopefully build upon rather than leaving them nothing at all simply because it wasn't good enough for my needs.

As a railfan and historian, I agree.

 

[jruff001]

I honestly wonder why this guy is participating in a forum intended to discuss and advocate for passenger trains.

Aren't I "discussing passenger trains"?

As to "advocate," as I have posted before, I love traveling by train and do so whenever it is realistic for me. A lot of posters do nothing but bash Amtrak - how on Earth is that "advocating"?

The posters constantly criticizing Amtrak's decisions have the luxury of living in a fantasy world without accountability and without the real-world constraints Amtrak management has to deal with. If injecting a little reality into the very inflexible party line here violates some forum rule, I'd rather hear that from a moderator and I will adjust my participation accordingly.

 

[Steve4031]

I needed to read a little more carefully, and my response to your earlier posts were out if line. When I get a moment I’ll contact an administrator and have it removed.

 

[jruff001]

Long distance rail is a questionable investment. In my opinion the country should make a decision to do it right and have multiple frequencies daily per route... or just pull the plug and leave it up to the states.

What we have right now, isn’t worth saving imho.

It's fine to be unhappy with the service and to stop using it when it no longer appeals to you, but once it's gone it's probably gone forever. I'd rather leave a flawed network that future generations can hopefully build upon rather than leaving them nothing at all simply because it wasn't good enough for my needs.

I'm torn between these two points of view. As Devil's Advocate says, once it's gone, it's probably gone for good, so fighting to preserve what little there is might be worthwhile.

However I really question whether directly subsidizing the LD network is a good use of taxpayer funds. Also, currently Amtrak is the butt of many jokes and as such may be hindering other passenger rail opportunities in the U.S. as an example of why it can never work - so I fear that the current flawed network may actually be harming future possibilities. (Though this is probably a discussion for a different thread.)

That's why every time I can take a LD Amtrak train trip, I do so with gratitude and thinking it might be my last one.

 

[Rasputin]

That's why every time I can take a LD Amtrak train trip, I do so with gratitude and thinking it might be my last one.

As I have said before, it seems like it is 1967-April 30, 1971 all over again.

 

[railiner]

As I have said before, it seems like it is 1967-April 30, 1971 all over again.

I was around back then, and while frequencies have been cut, at least all the current routes are safe. For now...

 

[crescent-zephyr]

As I have said before, it seems like it is 1967-April 30, 1971 all over again.

More like the 1990’s all over again.