Will improved relations with Cuba improve eastcoast long distance?

[NE933]

Maybe? Perhaps? Cross tourism convinces the powers that be to make the teeny weeney Palmetto into a Silver Palm? Maybe measurable pressure for a Miami train to New Orleans train in some reincarnation? Demand for more Viewliner II's? Amtrak has to really go after this, for the potential for a pretty nice increase in clientele is there.

 

[pebbleworm]

It's possible-there are several companies planning ferry service to Cuba:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/destination-cuba-ferry-operators-eye-florida-to-havana-service-1429885712

http://cubakat.com/

That could be a pretty nice trip!

 

[Anderson]

File that on my "Want to take" list. I'm now imagining a Yarmouth-to-somewhere-in-Cuba trip (wrapping up with taking the Cuban RR as far as I can...probably Santiago).

 

[Palmetto]

Amtrak's best bet for this market, I think, is to forget about the Miami Airport Station [where they won't fit, anyway!] and move to the All Aboard Florida station being built in downtown. It's a short hop from the port there. I believe that most Cubans wanting to take the train would arrive by the slow means of transportation: the boat. If they're flying into MIA, I imagine they'd either 1) change planes to continue to their destination, or 2) rent a car at the airport.

Finally, I am not sure that there is a sizeable number of Cubans who can actually afford to leave their country at this time, is there?

 

[Anderson]

Amtrak's best bet for this market, I think, is to forget about the Miami Airport Station [where they won't fit, anyway!] and move to the All Aboard Florida station being built in downtown. It's a short hop from the port there. I believe that most Cubans wanting to take the train would arrive by the slow means of transportation: the boat. If they're flying into MIA, I imagine they'd either 1) change planes to continue to their destination, or 2) rent a car at the airport.

Finally, I am not sure that there is a sizeable number of Cubans who can actually afford to leave their country at this time, is there?

You likely have a niche market coming from Cuba, to put it mildly, though if there's an opening and the fares end up competitive with flying (entirely possible, depending on how demand and slotting rights shake out) it could work. You have enough families on both sides of the Florida Straits, and there are at least some Cubans who can afford to come to the US once in a blue moon for those visits (either on their own dime or paid for by their families over here) if the Cuban government will let them.

Going to Cuba on a trip, however, is probably a truly massive market of interest. Considering how when I last vacationed in the Caymans you had a number of places where you could get instructions on how to visit Cuba as an American without getting a Cuban stamp on your passport (for example; I would note that the Cuban government was quite happy at the time to be party to such games in exchange for the hard currency it would generate), I suspect the market for taking such a trip without legal issues would be quite substantial...and a ferry (overnight or otherwise) would probably be popular as an option considering what the Customs lines can be like at MIA.

 

[cirdan]

Finally, I am not sure that there is a sizeable number of Cubans who can actually afford to leave their country at this time, is there?

No, but there is a sizeable number of Cubans already settled in the USA who may want to go home to visit family etc.

Having said that, a ferry + train connection only really works if

a) schedules of train and ferry are coordinated and in case of late running the connection either waits or an alternative means of transportation is provided.

b) the train comes as close to shipside as is at all possible. Forcing people to ride a bus or find a taxi greatly lessons the attractivity of the connection.

 

[jis]

Then again Miami International Airport will most likely have dozens of flights per day to Cuba once things get going, perhaps even several by the likes of Southwest and Jet Blue. So perhaps Amtrak should remain at Miami Airport Station afterall.

It is also likely that the likes of Orlando will get several flights a day to Cuba too, and Orlando International will eventually get connected to Orlando Amtrak by SunRail.

 

[AlexandriaVaTraveler]

While I've never ridden it and certainly never will, it's interesting to note that there's a 'Cubana' bus line (http://www.lacubanabus.com/) which makes 5/week trips between NY and Miami, with some intermediate stops along the way. I sometimes see the coaches on I-395.

The coach departs from NY nearly exactly the same time as Amtrak #91 (11:00 AM for Cubana vs 11:02 AM for 91)

91 arrives in DC/Alexandria about 30 minutes faster than Cubana's "DC" stop (which is really Arlington, VA in a neighborhood dense with Peruvians and Salvadorans).

91 is still a half hour ahead for both of their calls in Richmond.

However 91 loses a ton of ground after that - 3 hours later into Savannah than Cubana, nearly 4 hours later into Jacksonville, even more into Orlando, and by the terminus in Miami, 91 is a full 8 hours longer end-to-end than Cubana (which also has stops along the way, just not in low-revenue backwoods).

 

[jis]

If someone want to get from New York to Miami, why would they take 91 and not 97, unless they are a railfan looking to maximize hours of course?

 

[AlexandriaVaTraveler]

Yeah, I was just using 91 as a point of reference. 97 is about 27 hours long, which is much more comparable to the ~24 hrs for Cubana.

And at that point, you've got Amtrak competing vs the motorcoach because the motorcoach is (duh) coach seating, much as Amtrak has as well (in addition to higher-priced sleepers).

 

[AlexandriaVaTraveler]

It's actually a pretty incredible story and logistics behind the ride (I love the sleeper compartment for the driver depicted in the Youtube video).



According to this *2008* NYT articles, one-way fares start at $159, and that people take the bus because "the bus is a good deal for those who fear flying, cannot find affordable train fares or do not have the government identification to pass airport security — a problem for illegal immigrants and some legal ones."

For what it's worth, walk-up coach fares to tomorrow's 98/92 are $189 and $144 respectively. Advance booking is $144 for both trains.

Amtrak should be marketing this service in Havana, Miami, and New York yesterday. However, I bet that Cubana has the advantage of being "For Latinos by Latinos" and benefiting from word-of-mouth service (versus a quasi-government agency - see the comment about needing government IDs for air and plane travel).

 

[jis]

To travel between Cuba and the US one will require government Ids no matter which mode is used.

 

[andersone]

Let us resurrect Mr. Flagler

and let him fix is railroad

leaving only ninety miles to float

 

[Numbers_Game]

So, the thought is that Amtrak should advertise in Cuba, letting the "refugees/boatpeople" know that they can take Amtrak 92 or 98 from Miami to NYC? Make reservations ahead of time?

 

[AlexandriaVaTraveler]

So, the thought is that Amtrak should advertise in Cuba, letting the "refugees/boatpeople" know that they can take Amtrak 92 or 98 from Miami to NYC? Make reservations ahead of time?

No, they should have a ticket office with Spanish-speaking staff in Havana the day that commerce is normalized. Let future migrants to the US know that for a similar price, you get a more comfortable seating arrangement in coach seating, plus the possibility of a sleeper compartment (not everyone's going to be dirt poor I suppose).

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Since Cuba is a haven for Classic American Cars, Amtrak should round up the finest Heritage equipment it can locate, restore it to like it was during the Halcyon Days and replace one of the Silvers with the Havana Star or Havana Meteor.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

File that on my "Want to take" list. I'm now imagining a Yarmouth-to-somewhere-in-Cuba trip (wrapping up with taking the Cuban RR as far as I can...probably Santiago).

[SIZE=11pt]This might be a winter route option for the Portland to Yarmouth ‘Nova Star’ Ferry and would allow year ‘round utilization. Right now it is only being used for 5 months and spent last winter tied-up at a dock in Charleston SC [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Move it to a Flordia <> Cuba route for thr other 7 months. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]http://www.abcnews4.com/story/27868150/nova-star-ferry-will-spend-winter-in-south-carolina[/SIZE]

 

[Bob Dylan]

A Ferry, a Shuttle and a Train from Havana to New York! Just like the old days, sign me up! And how about The Havana Ltd. For a name? Iowa Pacific might be interested in this one!! ( New York City to Miami)

 

[fairviewroad]

Then again Miami International Airport will most likely have dozens of flights per day to Cuba once things get going, perhaps even several by the likes of Southwest and Jet Blue. So perhaps Amtrak should remain at Miami Airport Station afterall.

It is also likely that the likes of Orlando will get several flights a day to Cuba too, and Orlando International will eventually get connected to Orlando Amtrak by SunRail.

If Cuba-US air travel is truly opened up, you're going to see multiple daily non-stops from Cuba-New York. (In fact, those flights already exist on a charter basis). There are currently Cuba nonstops from Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, Chicago and Los Angeles, as well. (and likely more) Orlando flights are starting this summer.

The point being, if someone in Cuba can afford a plane ticket to Miami or Orlando, they'll also be able to afford a plane ticket to NYC or any other east coast destination (via connections). The airfare Cuba-MIA will not be appreciably different from the airfare Cuba-NYC or Cuba-WAS, etc due to the way the airline pricing works.

In short, IMO, the improved relations with Cuba will not have an appreciable impact on Amtrak's east coast operations. Market to Cubans? Sure, why not. But the number

of Cubans who would fly into MIA and then take a Silver Service train to, say, Yemassee or Sebring is negligible.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Since Cuba is a haven for Classic American Cars......

[SIZE=11pt]I’ve been to Cuba on vacation a couple of time and there are some beautiful resorts......but to see the real Cuba, you have to take a tour into one of the cities.....and yes, there’s vintage American cars everywhere.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]

[/SIZE]

 

[Anderson]

Then again Miami International Airport will most likely have dozens of flights per day to Cuba once things get going, perhaps even several by the likes of Southwest and Jet Blue. So perhaps Amtrak should remain at Miami Airport Station afterall.

It is also likely that the likes of Orlando will get several flights a day to Cuba too, and Orlando International will eventually get connected to Orlando Amtrak by SunRail.

If Cuba-US air travel is truly opened up, you're going to see multiple daily non-stops from Cuba-New York. (In fact, those flights already exist on a charter basis). There are currently Cuba nonstops from Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, Chicago and Los Angeles, as well. (and likely more) Orlando flights are starting this summer.

The point being, if someone in Cuba can afford a plane ticket to Miami or Orlando, they'll also be able to afford a plane ticket to NYC or any other east coast destination (via connections). The airfare Cuba-MIA will not be appreciably different from the airfare Cuba-NYC or Cuba-WAS, etc due to the way the airline pricing works.

In short, IMO, the improved relations with Cuba will not have an appreciable impact on Amtrak's east coast operations. Market to Cubans? Sure, why not. But the number

of Cubans who would fly into MIA and then take a Silver Service train to, say, Yemassee or Sebring is negligible.

True, but the question is where that price point lands vis-a-vis the ferry...and no, this isn't an idle question. Let's not forget the "border penalty" with Canada...it isn't hard to see something similar emerging where a round-trip fare to/from Havana ends up being something like $500 (the same way it has often been for places like Montreal).

 

[Guest]

The point being, if someone in Cuba can afford a plane ticket to Miami or Orlando, they'll also be able to afford a plane ticket to NYC or any other east coast destination (via connections). The airfare Cuba-MIA will not be appreciably different from the airfare Cuba-NYC or Cuba-WAS, etc due to the way the airline pricing works.

I was thinking that the more budget minded Cubans, will still take a boat from Cuba to Miami. While quite possibly a better boat than what's used today, it would still be a water shuttle/commuter type of service. This is different (read $$$ or ₱₱₱) than a LD trek of a large cruise ship that would go all the way to NYC.

Once on the Miami water front, they would need a way to continue onto other parts of the USA. Amtrak could seek a piece of that travel.

 

[Palmetto]

The point being, if someone in Cuba can afford a plane ticket to Miami or Orlando, they'll also be able to afford a plane ticket to NYC or any other east coast destination (via connections). The airfare Cuba-MIA will not be appreciably different from the airfare Cuba-NYC or Cuba-WAS, etc due to the way the airline pricing works.

I was thinking that the more budget minded Cubans, will still take a boat from Cuba to Miami. While quite possibly a better boat than what's used today, it would still be a water shuttle/commuter type of service. This is different (read $$$ or ₱₱₱) than a LD trek of a large cruise ship that would go all the way to NYC.

Once on the Miami water front, they would need a way to continue onto other parts of the USA. Amtrak could seek a piece of that travel.

Well, as we all know, anyone wanting to go anywhere west of the Mississippi from Florida had to do quite a circuitous routing if they want to take Amtrak. That would put me off right there.

 

[XHRTSP]

Thruway Boatstitution to Havanna anyone?

 

[Guest]

Not sure how Amtrak and Cuba have much to do with east coast long distance. Nothing is changing for Amtrak because of this and Cubans have already made their mark in the USA already.

Amtrak is not building a rail link to Cuba. As far as Miami, it is where Amtrak may serve Cubans who are legally in USA and Amtrak will have its network connected soon to the new Amtrak Miami station. And yes, we will see if All Aboard Florida also builds out in Miami as it is possible for Amtrak to have additional stations or connection points to All Aboard Florida.