Winter Park (Colorado) Express is back

[railiner]

Thank you for this bit of history, Willbridge. But showing my ignorance...what's a "walkover seat?" (Does this refer to what I think of as "bench seating," i.e., seat backs attached to the wall, rather than 2 x 2 seating on both sides of the aisle?)

The trainmen could walk down the aisle at the end of the run, and push the seatbacks over, so passengers would now face the new direction. Very easy and simple. Later versions were “flipover”.
The difference was the flipovers only were upholstered on one side, with a metal backing on the other, resulting in a thinner seatback, lighter, more vandal resistant, and easier to maintain.
These were in pairs, were non-reclining, and used on “day coaches”, or commuter seating…

 

[Trollopian]

The trainmen could walk down the aisle at the end of the run, and push the seatbacks over, so passengers would now face the new direction. Very easy and simple. Later versions were “flipover”.
The difference was the flipovers only were upholstered on one side, with a metal backing on the other, resulting in a thinner seatback, lighter, more vandal resistant, and easier to maintain.
These were in pairs, were non-reclining, and used on “day coaches”, or commuter seating…

Thank you, Railiner...I found some nice pictures and more description of walkover seats at Coach Accommodations – Northern Central Railway of York, a "heritage" railroad, and am now hankering for a trip to York, PA. As soon as I lace my corset.

 

[Willbridge]

Thank you, Railiner...I found some nice pictures and more description of walkover seats at Coach Accommodations – Northern Central Railway of York, a "heritage" railroad, and am now hankering for a trip to York, PA. As soon as I lace my corset.

....

That's the type of car that my grandfather rode in 1917 from Portland to Hoboken and Baltimore when the Oregon National Guard was sent to patrol the harbors. It was markedly better than the boxcars my great-great grandfather rode from Indianapolis to Chattanooga in 1863. Today's skiers take leg-rest, reclining seats for granted on a two-hour trip.

 

[MARC Rider]

Thank you, Railiner...I found some nice pictures and more description of walkover seats at Coach Accommodations – Northern Central Railway of York, a "heritage" railroad, and am now hankering for a trip to York, PA. As soon as I lace my corset.

View attachment 35563

Here's what it looks like from the outside:

The cars are new build, they have modern knuckle couplers and air brakes. You'll have to check the schedule carefully, as they usually have this one pulling the train:


It's a nice vintage diesel and all, but I don't think it's what Mr. Lincoln experienced on his ride to Gettysburg while he was writing his speech on his laptop. (Don't believe me? Google Gettysburg address PowerPoint presentation and you'll see.)

 

[Willbridge]

While Amtrak has had problems on the CZ and WPE serving Winter Park, the direct highway route over Berthoud Pass suffered closures and serious mountain driving conditions.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/t...1&cvid=2ccd17bec26c4d67a1cba70b9be608f8&ei=78

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

Here's what it looks like from the outside:
View attachment 35566
The cars are new build, they have modern knuckle couplers and air brakes. You'll have to check the schedule carefully, as they usually have this one pulling the train:

View attachment 35565
It's a nice vintage diesel and all, but I don't think it's what Mr. Lincoln experienced on his ride to Gettysburg while he was writing his speech on his laptop. (Don't believe me? Google Gettysburg address PowerPoint presentation and you'll see.)

I guess that explains why the Gettysburg Address was so short as he had to finish it while he still had battery, since the coaches had no electrical outlets or USB ports in those days

 

[Brian Battuello]

Haven't read all the posts above, so sorry if this is a duplicate:

https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/winter-park-express/
Good history and status report on the Ski Train.

 

[Willbridge]

Haven't read all the posts above, so sorry if this is a duplicate:

https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/winter-park-express/
Good history and status report on the Ski Train.

And it includes a 1948 photo that shows walkover seats.

 

[Agent]

For those curious, Michael DeMarco posted a video yesterday that shows the whole process of running the power around the ski train at the Fraser siding.

 

[cirdan]

Thank you, Railiner...I found some nice pictures and more description of walkover seats at Coach Accommodations – Northern Central Railway of York, a "heritage" railroad, and am now hankering for a trip to York, PA. As soon as I lace my corset.

View attachment 35563

complete with wood stove in the corner.

(I'm no expert mind you, but for being a modern replica, that looks extremely authentic. I wonder if some of the bits such a seat mechanisms and ceiling lamps may be originals)

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

While Amtrak has had problems on the CZ and WPE serving Winter Park, the direct highway route over Berthoud Pass suffered closures and serious mountain driving conditions.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/t...1&cvid=2ccd17bec26c4d67a1cba70b9be608f8&ei=78

Looks like Berthoud was closed last week again and over the weekend (possibly).

 

[Willbridge]

Looks like Berthoud was closed last week again and over the weekend (possibly).

I-70 was disrupted by tractor-trailer rigs trying to get over the hills without chains. The State Patrol was busy writing tickets for that, but of course the disruption had already occurred.

https://www.cpr.org/2024/03/18/abou...-stranded-on-a-bus-during-colorado-snowstorm/

 

[TinCan782]

For those curious, Michael DeMarco posted a video yesterday that shows the whole process of running the power around the ski train at the Fraser siding.

Was always curious why they didn't have a loco at each end of the consist and operate "push-pull" for the Winter Park Express.
They did just that for that VIP special train to Longmont and return last week with the same consist so the capability was there.

 

[Silophant]

I've also wondered that. Would certainly help on the return to not have to do the backup move into Union Station.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Was always curious why they didn't have a loco at each end of the consist and operate "push-pull" for the Winter Park Express.
They did just that for that VIP special train to Longmont and return last week with the same consist so the capability was there.

I've also wondered that. Would certainly help on the return to not have to do the backup move into Union Station.

I’m pretty sure it’s because DUS doesn’t like when the engines are at the ‘front’ of the train when they pull into the station because of exhaust complaints.

 

[Willbridge]

I’m pretty sure it’s because DUS doesn’t like when the engines are at the ‘front’ of the train when they pull into the station because of exhaust complaints.

Exactly. And refueling is always done on the protected segment of roadbed outside of the train shed.

When the Class 1's catch up with the rest of the world and RTD, electric locomotives can come in.

 

[John Santos]

I’m pretty sure it’s because DUS doesn’t like when the engines are at the ‘front’ of the train when they pull into the station because of exhaust complaints.

Presumable when approaching (or leaving) a stub station, the train would be moving very slowly for the last mile or so. Would it be able to operate with only the pusher engine actually running? Would a single engine in the back (controlled from the engine in the front, whose diesel motor was shut down) have enough power to push a typical train the last few thousand feet or so on level ground at 10mph or less into the station?

While departing the station, the pusher engine at the back could be turned off until it is clear of the station,

This would depend on being able to shut down and start an engine while the train is in motion, or else the train would have to stop briefly to shut down the front engine just before arriving and to start up the pusher engine just after leaving. I'm guessing there are other complications that I know nothing about.

I think that would obviate concerns about diesel exhaust in the station. BTW, aren't Chargers also suppose to produce much less exhaust (or particulates, which I think are the most annoying and unhealthy components of the exhaust) than the older engines?)

Lastly, I agree with Willbridge that electrifying the lines, especially in urban areas (dual mode engines?) would solve all the exhaust problems in stations and tunnels.

 

[railiner]

JMHO, but I don’t believe they should ever have built that silly looking shed over the station. The classic umbrella sheds were better…

 

[cirdan]

Presumable when approaching (or leaving) a stub station, the train would be moving very slowly for the last mile or so. Would it be able to operate with only the pusher engine actually running? Would a single engine in the back (controlled from the engine in the front, whose diesel motor was shut down) have enough power to push a typical train the last few thousand feet or so on level ground at 10mph or less into the station?

We have seen newly built Chargers being ferried on transcontinental Amtrak trains as dead loads, with several videos of this posted on this forum.

If two engines can tow the dead weight of an additional locomotive (or two) in addition to their regular train without significantly impacting performance, I don't think a slow-speed back-up with a one engine working and the other dead should be a problem.

Whether or not it is possible to control another locomotive from the cab of a "dead" engine, or even cold-start it remotely, I do not know. One would have to look at the specifics of the wiring (and software) of that particular engine. But in theory I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible to wire up a locomotive thusly. One would of course have to arrange for the working engine to be providing the HEP.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Just a reminder the Denver Union Station tent was redesigned at the urging of Amtrak to accommodate locomotives under the canopy. That why a section is open. The complaints are from people who live adjacent to the station about the noise and exhaust from the locomotives.

Practically speaking running push pull with two locomotives required communication systems between the locomotives. This can be a hard wire system or a radio based system. I am sure a few rail cars have been modified for a hard wire system. I am assuming there not available for a seasonal service such as the ski train. I have also never heard of any Amtrak locomotives been equipped with a radio based multiple unit system.

So while it’s possible for many ways to run this train. The current way of running the locomotive around the train is what we have. If someone would like to spend money on capital improvements then we can do something else.

 

[jis]

Practically speaking running push pull with two locomotives required communication systems between the locomotives. This can be a hard wire system or a radio based system. I am sure a few rail cars have been modified for a hard wire system. I am assuming there not available for a seasonal service such as the ski train. I have also never heard of any Amtrak locomotives been equipped with a radio based multiple unit system.

The last time I looked, which admittedly was a while back, about 70 Superliner Is and 20 or so Superliner IIs are equipped with train lines for use in push-pull operations. Since then those numbers may have increased. But if those numbers are currently true then while i t would not be difficult to selectively use those cars in the single consist used by the Ski Train. It would be considerably harder to equip all consists of the CZ exclusively with those.

 

[Willbridge]

All the theorizing skipped one point, refueling. Granted that doesn't happen every turn, but it should not take place in an unprotected location under a tent.