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jis

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The most affected will be commuter trains. Amtrak trains will mostly do relatively fine I think. Empire Service may be significantly impacted during work on the A Ladder since they have to cross it to get to the Empire Connection.

There will be significant juggling of NJT schedules, with possibly some trains diverted to Hoboken or short terminated at Newark Penn, is what we are hearing. Effect on LIRR should be less unless major stuff comes down on the east side tunnels and interlockings.
 

Maverickstation

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Another story on this subject, don't think for a second that this will not affect Amtrak in a large way.

NJ Transit has options, like diverting trains to Hoboken, or turning them at Newark Penn (where by passengers would transfer to PATH, or i the case of Hoboken, PATH or Ferries),

options that would not work for Amtrak.

The fact that Amtrak has to even hint at shutting one of the tunnels shows how dramatic the issues are in the tunnels and the approaches from the west of NYP.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/Amtrak-warns-of-significant-outages-as-NJ-lawmakers-seek-answers-on-commuter-chaos.html

Ken
 

A Voice

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The fact that Amtrak has to even hint at shutting one of the tunnels shows how dramatic the issues are in the tunnels and the approaches from the west of NYP.
The eventual tunnel closure does not refer to the work performed this summer. It has been known for a long time that the damage to the aging tunnels during the Sandy storm event would ultimately mean the tubes would have to be shut down for repairs, but the plan has always been to do this work after the Gateway tunnel is operational. While it is possible something could be found or occur which would require the tunnels be shuttered before then - particularly if Gateway faces delays (likely funding) - that is not the intention.

While Amtrak will be affected, Jis is correct in that it is the commuter traffic which will take by far the greatest hit. Penn Station is drowning in commuter trains; This will eventually have to be addressed further than just Gateway and the Farley building station expansion.
 

daybeers

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While Amtrak will be affected, Jis is correct in that it is the commuter traffic which will take by far the greatest hit. Penn Station is drowning in commuter trains; This will eventually have to be addressed further than just Gateway and the Farley building station expansion.
Isn't the seemingly never-ending East Side Access Project going to address the fact that Penn is overcrowded by bringing LIRR to GCT?
 
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jis

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Only partly. It will offload the higher track numbers a little, and soon some of the LIRR trains that move out, will be replaced by MNRR trains from the New Haven Line. And it will have no effect on the ever growing numbers coming in from NJ.
 

dlagrua

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Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months. JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station. It is grossly overloaded. Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.
 

AmtrakBlue

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Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months. JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station. It is grossly overloaded. Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.
Hmm, might 2 derailments in a month justify doing it now rather than later?
 

Maverickstation

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The fact that Amtrak has to even hint at shutting one of the tunnels shows how dramatic the issues are in the tunnels and the approaches from the west of NYP.
The eventual tunnel closure does not refer to the work performed this summer. It has been known for a long time that the damage to the aging tunnels during the Sandy storm event would ultimately mean the tubes would have to be shut down for repairs, but the plan has always been to do this work after the Gateway tunnel is operational. While it is possible something could be found or occur which would require the tunnels be shuttered before then - particularly if Gateway faces delays (likely funding) - that is not the intention.

While Amtrak will be affected, Jis is correct in that it is the commuter traffic which will take by far the greatest hit. Penn Station is drowning in commuter trains; This will eventually have to be addressed further than just Gateway and the Farley building station expansion.
Actually you never know when an emergency tunnel closure could occur, since the "issues" of the past few weeks, Amtrak's inspectors have found more defects in the tunnels.

This was brought to light this past week when the CBS Evening News ran a story where of their reporters was taken on a rare tour of the tunnels and issues like antiquated wiring,

water intrusion, general aging, and the like were pointed out.

Granted when it was planned NYP was not designed to handle commuter trains coming from the west, and that changed over the decades with the final PRR commuter train departing Jersey City-Exchange Place in 1961.

NJT has to be charged with maximizing Hoboken for the foreseable future, like it. or not.

The NEC is Amtrak's bread and butter, but it can't that with a sever point between NY Penn and Newark Penn.

This is no doubt the most serious issue that Amtrak is facing.

Ken
 

Bex

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Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months. JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station. It is grossly overloaded. Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.
Just curious, because I could not find figures, but anecdotally, it seems commuter ridership in Manhattan goes down in the summer as people take vacations, have summer Fridays, etc. So while it's Amtrak's high season, maybe not so much for LIRR/NJT?
 

Maverickstation

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Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months. JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station. It is grossly overloaded. Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.
Just curious, because I could not find figures, but anecdotally, it seems commuter ridership in Manhattan goes down in the summer as people take vacations, have summer Fridays, etc. So while it's Amtrak's high season, maybe not so much for LIRR/NJT?
For the LIRR summer ridership soars on their east end routes, as well as the Babylon and Long Beach branches, overtaking any vacation loss on their system, and hyper New Yorkers don't take much vacation to start with.

NJT also sees an uptick on their Bay Head route
 
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railiner

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I had thought that the East Side Access could divert as many as half of LIRR trains from NYP to NYG, if necessary....by the way, what is the latest estimate for its opening?

And why would New Haven MNCR trains be diverted to NYP? If people wanted to go to NYP, they can already ride Amtrak trains that do that, albeit, for a higher fare.....if that is planned, what about sending some MN Hudson Line trains to NYP? Why not one, and not the other?

If that happens, Amtrak should be able to reciprocate and run a couple of Boston or Albany trains to NYG, for the convenience of those wanting that part of town...
 

Train2104

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Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months. JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station. It is grossly overloaded. Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.
Just curious, because I could not find figures, but anecdotally, it seems commuter ridership in Manhattan goes down in the summer as people take vacations, have summer Fridays, etc. So while it's Amtrak's high season, maybe not so much for LIRR/NJT?
For most transit, including NYC area transit it does go down, and on Fridays quite a bit,especially in the mornings. But the thousands that fill Penn for the Montauk and Long Beach service on Friday afternoons and weekends more than makes up for the loss (and I'm not exaggerating, the Cannonball alone carries well over 1,500 passengers most Fridays). Summer is the LIRR's busiest time of year overall.
 
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jis

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It was Amtrak's decision to move out of GCT to reduce cost. Nothing has changed to cause a different decision now.

It is MTA's plan to run some New Haven Line trains to Penn Station using slots that belong to MTA via LIRR, so go and ask them why. I think it also has to do with opening several stations on the NY Connecting Railroad (Hell Gate Line) to increase commuter access. No one in their right mind should claim that Amtrak service and fares is the same as commuter rail service and fares anywhere on the NEC
 

railiner

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No one did claim that the service and fares are the same....I did say that service via Amtrak on the New Haven line to NYP was available, albeit at a higher fare....

*

Interesting about stops on the NY Connecting RR line....would be nice to have a stop at either Northern Blvd., or Ditmars Blvd. in Astoria, not too far from LaGuardia Airport to serve Queens passenger's...
 

WoodyinNYC

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Interesting about stops on the NY Connecting RR line....would be nice to have a stop ... in Astoria, not too far from LaGuardia Airport to serve Queens passengers...
I've only read about 4 stations in the Bronx, in parts of the boro poorly served by subways, especially Coop City.
 

dlagrua

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Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months. JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station. It is grossly overloaded. Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.
Hmm, might 2 derailments in a month justify doing it now rather than later?
That makes sense and I can certainly believe that is one of the driving factors.. Those derailments also caused NJT to withhold rent for the use of Penn station so that also forces the issue. . We just hope that the effect on LD and NEC trains is not catastrophic.

Just for reference my son came out to visit us today and decided to take NJT from NYP to Raritan. It turned out to be a 2 1/2 hour trip on a day when passenger traffic is very light. I can only guess that track /switch work may have already begun. Have to check Amtrak NEC schedule to see if that has been affected as well.
 
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jis

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About NJT rent, that is Christie grandstanding. This year's check has been paid and cashed, as I understand it. It is the payment for 2018 that we are bloviating about. The effects of any real withholding will unfold after Christie is gone, so it is an easy one for him to huff and puff about, for effect.
 
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Thirdrail7

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The Newsday article conveniently over looks the fact that LIRR has hindered Amtrak from assisting when it refused to cut its trains to accommodate the track work. How can there be an outage if you're ramming trains through the area? AS the only 24 hour commuter service in the country, LIRR was approached by the MTA about stopping service to save money. LIRR politicians refused to cut overnight trains (accurately) citing the economical benefits of 24 hour service. That's all well and good, but you can't work on tracks with trains running on them.

As such, I can agree that there is a lack of leadership because a true leader would take have taken a hard line stance and said "We're taking the tracks out of service. Period. Run your full schedules at your own peril." No one bats an eye when a freight railroad shuts down the line and says trains aren't running. Instead, they let the commuter agencies dictate policy in their own terminal through funds...which Amtrak desperately needs.

I also remember MTA having the same problem when two trains sideswiped outside of BRP. This is just the latest incident in an industry that continues to cut and roll the dice. The brain drain of 2013 still rages on and the Not Ready For Prime Time Players continue to lead by their wallets (which in some cases is accurate) without an eye towards the consequences..that may come sooner rather than later.

As for the security theater, there are documented policies in place that have command procedures. Each division and their responsibilities are listed. However, the passengers probably don't have them and it is likely they are the group of people that are going run around and wreak havoc. As such, if you put in one agency, 18 agencies or no agencies, a panic is a panic. A riot is a riot. A stampede will still become a stampede. After all, Newsday conveniently leaves out that mayhem ensued at JFK airport in New York last year after there were false reports of gun fire. The fleeing passengers paid little attention to the announcements as they raced around. I'd like to see more occur (such as the master announcer that supposedly exists within NYP), but thinking you can legislate reactions has always been a source of amusement for me.
 
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Pooh2

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We just booked a trip from Boston to New Orleans for 4th of July week with about an hour and half wait at NYP. What do they do with us if we miss the Crescent (in a sleeper)?

Already bought nonrefundable plane tickets for the return trip.
 

jis

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I agree with Thirdrail. With the excellent leadership being provided by the Governors in the NY area, the Commuter service will first descend to the state of WMATA before things start improving. Improvements will happen only after a few of these guys start losing elections wholesale. And if they don't, be ready for things tog et worse. Actually, Cuomo is at least getting the long delayed third track between Floral Park and Hicksville on the LIRR Main Line pushed forward at least. But LIRR really needs to perform much better in Capital Projects than the low bar they have set for themselves with the ESA project.
 
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Thirdrail7

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We just booked a trip from Boston to New Orleans for 4th of July week with about an hour and half wait at NYP. What do they do with us if we miss the Crescent (in a sleeper)?

Already bought nonrefundable plane tickets for the return trip.
If it is a guaranteed connection, they will typically hold the Crescent in WAS until you arrive. They may switch you to an Acela for the intercept. Chances are, they will leave you on the through trains to WAS. If you are so late that intercept isn't feasible, they will offer lodging and accommodate you on the next Crescent.
 

PVD

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I was on a Crescent from NYP to ATL back in October, they held us in WAS to wait for connections from North of NYC on the corridor because of residual delays from a CSX derail in the Bronx that blocked access to the Hell Gate Bridge.
 
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