You've been appointed President of Amtrak....with a catch

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IndyLions

OBS Chief
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-Second sightseer lounge that will act the same way as the parlor car did. Only for sleeper passengers, however coach can buy access for a day or the trip. (Similar to a Metropolitan Lounge pass)
The idea to allow non-sleeper passengers to buy a day pass in the first class lounge car is a pretty good one. They would need to limit the number of passes available to keep the service quality high – but I like the idea!
 

MARC Rider

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Lost the Sunset, Cardinal, Star, Palmetto, CONO,
Considering that the Palmetto provides useful (and well-patronized) transportation service connecting the eastern Carolinas to the northeast, it might be a good idea to think about how it could be retained. Or explain to the folks in Charleston, Florence, Fayetteville, Rocky Mount, etc. why they need to sacrifice service that's useful to them in order to have "experiential" trains for tourists out west. :)
 

Philly Amtrak Fan

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Considering that the Palmetto provides useful (and well-patronized) transportation service connecting the eastern Carolinas to the northeast, it might be a good idea to think about how it could be retained. Or explain to the folks in Charleston, Florence, Fayetteville, Rocky Mount, etc. why they need to sacrifice service that's useful to them in order to have "experiential" trains for tourists out west. :)
Cal's plan keeps the Silver Meteor which includes most if not all of the stops that the Palmetto has now. If you have to cut LD trains, I'd rather cut the Palmetto than the California Zephyr or Southwest Chief. The Palmetto is the Silver Meteor without serving Florida. It's like if the Lake Shore Limited stopped in South Bend or stopped in Albany, what's the point?
 

Cal

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Cal's plan keeps the Silver Meteor which includes most if not all of the stops that the Palmetto has now. If you have to cut LD trains, I'd rather cut the Palmetto than the California Zephyr or Southwest Chief. The Palmetto is the Silver Meteor without serving Florida. It's like if the Lake Shore Limited stopped in South Bend or stopped in Albany, what's the point?
Right on
 

MARC Rider

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Cal's plan keeps the Silver Meteor which includes most if not all of the stops that the Palmetto has now. If you have to cut LD trains, I'd rather cut the Palmetto than the California Zephyr or Southwest Chief. The Palmetto is the Silver Meteor without serving Florida. It's like if the Lake Shore Limited stopped in South Bend or stopped in Albany, what's the point?
Nope. The Silver Meteor serves the Carolina towns during the middle of the night. That's not exactly useful transportation services for people living in those communities.
 

Cal

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Nope. The Silver Meteor serves the Carolina towns during the middle of the night. That's not exactly useful transportation services for people living in those communities.
I made the Meteor service twice daily, with them 12 hours apart. So that means there will be one daytime service too.
 

Cal

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Oh, Ok, basically, you extended the Palmetto and renamed it as the Meteor Service.
Mhm. I know those are popular, but I don't want to sacrifice western routes for Florida routes, so I just cut down Florida by one train.
 

MARC Rider

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Mhm. I know those are popular, but I don't want to sacrifice western routes for Florida routes, so I just cut down Florida by one train.
OK, I went back to the original premise, and it included a stipulation that Amtrak got funding for expanded corridor service. The Palmetto is really an extended corridor train, so what I would do is transfer the Palmetto over to corridor service (and maybe even add one or two additional corridor trains down the A line from Washington to either Fayetteville or Charleston, depending on which states are willing to chip in for the funding.) Twice daily Silver Service with a Tampa section (instead of having the whole train take the detour to Tampa) would be nice if it would allow for a morning arrival in south Florida and an afternoon arrival in the northeast.
 

Cal

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OK, I went back to the original premise, and it included a stipulation that Amtrak got funding for expanded corridor service. The Palmetto is really an extended corridor train, so what I would do is transfer the Palmetto over to corridor service (and maybe even add one or two additional corridor trains down the A line from Washington to either Fayetteville or Charleston, depending on which states are willing to chip in for the funding.) Twice daily Silver Service with a Tampa section (instead of having the whole train take the detour to Tampa) would be nice if it would allow for a morning arrival in south Florida and an afternoon arrival in the northeast.
I agree
 

neroden

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I was avoiding playing, because I'd cheat. I'd declare that we were going to do New York - Chicago High Speed Rail via Detroit and Fort Wayne, and I'd call that a "corridor" rather than a long-distance train. After all the 750-mile rule is gone in this fantasy, right?

The LSL would be replaced with Chicago-Detroit-Toledo-Cleveland-Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse-Albany-NY service, running end-to-end at least twice a day with additional trains covering portions of the corridor. Connecting corridor trains to Boston would run at least twice a day.

The Capitol Limited would be replaced with Chicago-Fort Wayne-Toledo-Cleveland-Akron (or Youngstown)-Pittsburgh-Philadelphia-NY trains, running at least once a day all through and more on shorter parts of the corridor; with synchronization from Toledo to Cleveland. Connecting corridor trains from Pittsburgh to DC would run at least once a day.

The 3C corridor would be implemented to connect Columbus and Cincy. Cleveland would become a hub with dozens of trains in all directions.

I designate Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinatti a "corridor" too, and Cincinnati-Charlottesville VA-DC, so that's the Cardinal route taken care of.

I designate DC-New Orleans a "high speed corridor" and also DC-Florida, with many trains per day on each route, so that's the Silvers and Crescent dealt with.

These routes would include a network "NightJet" overnight corridor sleeper trains, designed for "get on in the evening, off in the morning", and the NEC would get those too. These would allow easy overnights from any Northeast destination to anything from Toledo west.

By designating these as corridors, I removed seven "long-distance" trains while massively increasing service (massively! Billions of dollars massively!) on all routes. Look! Less than ten long-distance trains, and all I had to do was reclassify the single-overnight trains in the east as corridor trains!
 

Cal

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I was avoiding playing, because I'd cheat. I'd declare that we were going to do New York - Chicago High Speed Rail via Detroit and Fort Wayne, and I'd call that a "corridor" rather than a long-distance train. After all the 750-mile rule is gone in this fantasy, right?

The LSL would be replaced with Chicago-Detroit-Toledo-Cleveland-Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse-Albany-NY service, running end-to-end at least twice a day with additional trains covering portions of the corridor. Connecting corridor trains to Boston would run at least twice a day.

The Capitol Limited would be replaced with Chicago-Fort Wayne-Toledo-Cleveland-Akron (or Youngstown)-Pittsburgh-Philadelphia-NY trains, running at least once a day all through and more on shorter parts of the corridor; with synchronization from Toledo to Cleveland. Connecting corridor trains from Pittsburgh to DC would run at least once a day.

The 3C corridor would be implemented to connect Columbus and Cincy. Cleveland would become a hub with dozens of trains in all directions.

I designate Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinatti a "corridor" too, and Cincinnati-Charlottesville VA-DC, so that's the Cardinal route taken care of.

I designate DC-New Orleans a "high speed corridor" and also DC-Florida, with many trains per day on each route, so that's the Silvers and Crescent dealt with.

These routes would include a network "NightJet" overnight corridor sleeper trains, designed for "get on in the evening, off in the morning", and the NEC would get those too. These would allow easy overnights from any Northeast destination to anything from Toledo west.

By designating these as corridors, I removed seven "long-distance" trains while massively increasing service (massively! Billions of dollars massively!) on all routes. Look! Less than ten long-distance trains, and all I had to do was reclassify the single-overnight trains in the east as corridor trains!
Ah, the loopholes people can find.
 

Seaboard92

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Ok here we go looking at the existing routes that exist.

1. Flip the Lakeshore Limited and Capitol Limited Schedules out of Chicago going eastbound, and push 97's schedule back to 7 PM. Rename this service something like the Florida Special and run it as one train Chicago-Buffalo-New York-Miami.

2. Cancel the Sunset Limited. But make the Texas Eagle daily Chicago-Los Angeles with a New Orleans section being added in San Antonio.

3. Keep the Empire Builder, California Zephyr, and Southwest Chief

4. Cancel the Capitol Limited and replace it with the Broadway Limited with a section splitting at Pittsburgh to Washington.

5. Keep the Crescent but I would definitely add the Crescent Star idea of thru cars to Dallas. But I would split the train in Atlanta allowing the actual Crescent to go south to Montgomery-Mobile-New Orleans.

6. The Cardinal gets cancelled but in its place two less than 750 mile day trains split in Cincinnati. And the NEC leg gets lopped off.

7. The Coast Starlight gets cancelled and broken into about three corridors. It is hard for me because I love this train so much but it's an easy one to convert to corridors.

8. I would keep the Silver Star but move the schedule earlier and have a section that splits off to Savannah down the A Line to replace the cancelled Palmetto but in the same time slot. (Could it be reattached is that in the rules)

9. I would keep the City of New Orleans because it occupies an interesting spot in the country as a north-south artery.

It is difficult but its doable to just about save the entire National Network while eliminating some names.

The reason I saved the CONO over the Coast Starlight is simple it's not as population dense as the Starlight so if it was broken into corridors there is a good chance it wouldn't connect well at some point. Whereas the Coast Starlight has such a dense population it wouldn't surprise me if you could do it in one maybe two connections that were well timed. As I would assume I could get a one night out sleeper train LAX-Bay Area.
 

Cal

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Ok here we go looking at the existing routes that exist.

1. Flip the Lakeshore Limited and Capitol Limited Schedules out of Chicago going eastbound, and push 97's schedule back to 7 PM. Rename this service something like the Florida Special and run it as one train Chicago-Buffalo-New York-Miami.

2. Cancel the Sunset Limited. But make the Texas Eagle daily Chicago-Los Angeles with a New Orleans section being added in San Antonio.

3. Keep the Empire Builder, California Zephyr, and Southwest Chief

4. Cancel the Capitol Limited and replace it with the Broadway Limited with a section splitting at Pittsburgh to Washington.

5. Keep the Crescent but I would definitely add the Crescent Star idea of thru cars to Dallas. But I would split the train in Atlanta allowing the actual Crescent to go south to Montgomery-Mobile-New Orleans.

6. The Cardinal gets cancelled but in its place two less than 750 mile day trains split in Cincinnati. And the NEC leg gets lopped off.

7. The Coast Starlight gets cancelled and broken into about three corridors. It is hard for me because I love this train so much but it's an easy one to convert to corridors.

8. I would keep the Silver Star but move the schedule earlier and have a section that splits off to Savannah down the A Line to replace the cancelled Palmetto but in the same time slot. (Could it be reattached is that in the rules)

9. I would keep the City of New Orleans because it occupies an interesting spot in the country as a north-south artery.

It is difficult but its doable to just about save the entire National Network while eliminating some names.

The reason I saved the CONO over the Coast Starlight is simple it's not as population dense as the Starlight so if it was broken into corridors there is a good chance it wouldn't connect well at some point. Whereas the Coast Starlight has such a dense population it wouldn't surprise me if you could do it in one maybe two connections that were well timed. As I would assume I could get a one night out sleeper train LAX-Bay Area.
I don't hate it, don't love it.
 

Philly Amtrak Fan

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Ok here we go looking at the existing routes that exist.

2. Cancel the Sunset Limited. But make the Texas Eagle daily Chicago-Los Angeles with a New Orleans section being added in San Antonio.

5. Keep the Crescent but I would definitely add the Crescent Star idea of thru cars to Dallas. But I would split the train in Atlanta allowing the actual Crescent to go south to Montgomery-Mobile-New Orleans.
Why not take that NOL-SAS and add it to the Crescent, making the Crescent a NYP-SAS train?
 

railiner

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1. Flip the Lakeshore Limited and Capitol Limited Schedules out of Chicago going eastbound, and push 97's schedule back to 7 PM. Rename this service something like the Florida Special and run it as one train Chicago-Buffalo-New York-Miami.
Where are you going to wye this train? Or were you going to run half of the route, "backwards"?
 

railiner

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I really don't think combining the Lakeshore and the Meteor is a good idea. Besides the 'turning' issue, i don't believe there would be that many thru passengers to make it worth while. Better, the trains end at NY, as they do presently, and receive their proper servicing at Sunnyside. You could try to arrange a cross-platform connection for thru passenger's, if time-keeping was reliable.

AFAIK, Amtrak has never even tried running a thru Albany<>Washington train...
 
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MARC Rider

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I really don't think combining the Lakeshore and the Meteor is a good idea. Besides the 'turning' issue, i don't believe there would be that many thru passengers to make it worth while. Better, the trains end at NY, as they do presently, and receive their proper servicing at Sunnyside. You could try to arrange a cross-platform connection for thru passenger's, if time-keeping was reliable.

AFAIK, Amtrak has never even tried running a thru Albany<>Washington train...
Didn't they run the Adirondack down to Washington back in the 1980s or 1990s?
 

fdaley

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Do you know approximately when? I suppose it did, but I just can't recall it...if you know the approximate dates, we can look it up in the Museum of RR Timetables...
The Adirondack started running through to Washington in April '95, when the Montrealer was discontinued. This preserved through Washington-Montreal service, though the endpoint times were not so great. I don't think it lasted more than about a year, but I do remember taking a couple of through trips from Philadelphia to Fort Edward.
 

jiml

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IIRC the extension of the Adirondack was to fill the void after the Montrealer was cut for the first time, then again after the second and final cut. I've been trying to remember the one and only time I took it. The common elements were Penn Station after the move from GCT, but not so long after that an FL9 still towed from Albany and was left in Penn as we pulled away. There was still business class (of a sort) on the Adirondack, occupying half the cafe car, which was Amfleet not Rohr. I also recall more of the seats were turned to form "quads" in our section, allowing us to switch sides when the train started going backwards. The corridor section was in the dark, so there wasn't much to see.
 

jiml

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The Adirondack started running through to Washington in April '95, when the Montrealer was discontinued. This preserved through Washington-Montreal service, though the endpoint times were not so great. I don't think it lasted more than about a year, but I do remember taking a couple of through trips from Philadelphia to Fort Edward.
Simultaneous post.
 
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