What is happening to the SWC route?

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Let Amtrak fade into Sunset if that is the choice. Where real markets are for rail passenger service, private business will enter.
 
Well Sir, I happen to live in Raton and we are worth mentioning! We need the train here. Have you ever heard of Philmont Boy Scout Ranch? Thousands of scouts and workers arrive here by train every summer. The vistas are absolutely beautiful here, maybe you should visit sometime.
 
Raton does not need Amtrak service---They might want it ,but they don't NEED it. Same with all Americans. What Raton needs is a sense and purpose of being. Yes, I was there last week and found the whole town is wringing their hands ,crying we are dying. Raton needs a change of attitude in order to live Amtrak is not the answer for that.
 
Oh good grief, the SWC is supposed to struggle along for the sake of pretty scenery, a town of under 7k people, and a ranch that operates about 3 months out of the year! Amtrak isn't a charity. If Raton and the BSA want to raise the money to support that section of the route, that's different.
 
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mwaddell1 said:
Well Sir, I happen to live in Raton and we are worth mentioning! We need the train here. Have you ever heard of Philmont Boy Scout Ranch? Thousands of scouts and workers arrive here by train every summer. The vistas are absolutely beautiful here, maybe you should visit sometime.
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Could NM not extend RR north to that point, at least on a seasonal basis?

How much track would they have to maintain to make that happen, assuming speed and comfort aren't a huge priority?
 
the Duck said:
Where real markets are for rail passenger service, private business will enter.
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Hell yeah, I can't wait for that new private LA to Vegas service to start! I'm totally riding that train!
 
the Duck said:
Let Amtrak fade into Sunset if that is the choice. Where real markets are for rail passenger service, private business will enter.
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the Duck said:
Raton does not need Amtrak service---They might want it ,but they don't NEED it. Same with all Americans. What Raton needs is a sense and purpose of being. Yes, I was there last week and found the whole town is wringing their hands ,crying we are dying. Raton needs a change of attitude in order to live Amtrak is not the answer for that.
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Look, unless you're also willing to give up road and airport/airline subsidies (both of these industries would collapse without federal aid), then just stop. Passenger rail is a legitimate part of the infrastructure, and should be well funded. Are there a lot of improvements that can be made? Definitely. Does Amtrak need to get better at managing its money, and using the resources that it has? Absolutely. To say though that rail travel in this country should just end is foolish. It provides a useful service, and is important if we are to claim the status as a 1st world country.

Even the most successful passenger rail systems around the world cannot exist without public funding. It just isn't a profitable business sector. Instead of trying to treat it like a for-profit business (like we do with Amtrak), it should be an independent government agency/non-profit corporation whose goals are to provide quality service, maintain reasonable finances, and be efficient in its operations. It should receive a regular subsidy every year, so that Amtrak managers can plan for the future (as is true in the business world, it is impossible to make medium or long-term decisions without some certainty of what revenue may be, and what the general climate may be).

When compared to the amounts that we spend on other sectors of the infrastructure, Amtrak's subsidy would be paltry. There is no logical reason not to support America's passenger rail system.
 
mwaddell1 said:
Well Sir, I happen to live in Raton and we are worth mentioning! We need the train here. Have you ever heard of Philmont Boy Scout Ranch? Thousands of scouts and workers arrive here by train every summer. The vistas are absolutely beautiful here, maybe you should visit sometime.
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The SWC only serves a few select markets. Most of the Scouts arrive by car, bus or fly into Denver or Albuquerque. They don't come on the train. I have been over Raton pass many times by car and train and it's not prettier than Abo Canyon on the Transcon. The Raton pass line has 3% grades. BNSF tried to use it for their fastest container and trailer trains just to keep it open and crews trained. But it required helpers to get the trains over the pass. Just too expensive, and now they have double tracked most of the Transcon, so there is simply no need for Raton any more.
 
William W. said:
Let Amtrak fade into Sunset if that is the choice. Where real markets are for rail passenger service, private business will enter.
the Duck said:
Raton does not need Amtrak service---They might want it ,but they don't NEED it. Same with all Americans. What Raton needs is a sense and purpose of being. Yes, I was there last week and found the whole town is wringing their hands ,crying we are dying. Raton needs a change of attitude in order to live Amtrak is not the answer for that.
Click to expand...
Look, unless you're also willing to give up road and airport/airline subsidies (both of these industries would collapse without federal aid), then just stop. Passenger rail is a legitimate part of the infrastructure, and should be well funded. Are there a lot of improvements that can be made? Definitely. Does Amtrak need to get better at managing its money, and using the resources that it has? Absolutely. To say though that rail travel in this country should just end is foolish. It provides a useful service, and is important if we are to claim the status as a 1st world country.
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Yes, it's all subsidized. The diff is airlines are a private business as are bus companies, etc. None of them are Government run agencies with bloated overheads. Their subsidies are not annual grants of money as is Amtrak's. They come in the form of government support for some of the infrastructure. Airlines and bus companies still go bankrupt if they don't serve a need or run themselves efficiently. Amtrak just bumbles on as is. The private operators in Europe just run the trains. The government still provides the infrastructure. If passenger rail is to grow and prosper here we just need a different approach.
 
neroden said:
At this point I suggest that anyone in Amarillo or Wichita, or who plans to travel to either city, should write to Amtrak to show the extent of the market demand. But I'm not sure who to write to (I suppose one could write direct to Boardman).
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Taking your advice, I emailed Mr. Boardman. The good news is that he replied pretty quickly. The bad news:

Dear AmarilloByMornin' ,

It is my intent to keep the commitments to those along the existing Chief Route. I understand your interest. The public is way ahead of Congress on the need for connectivity.

Yes we are a private business and we need to make smart decisions and yet we must do our very best to make good on our commitment to our existing customer base at the same time. The United States decided on this long distance network over 40 years ago when it allowed the Freight Railroads to come into being. They were relieved of their money losing passenger traffic by a new company Amtrak. The United States needs to keep their commitment.

I hope at some point your dream of service will be fulfilled but if I can help it, it will not come on the back of those who will lose their service from Dodge City to Raton and beyond.

I wish you well in your quest.

Joe Boardman.

Not exactly what I was hoping for...
 
AmarilloByMornin' said:
neroden said:
At this point I suggest that anyone in Amarillo or Wichita, or who plans to travel to either city, should write to Amtrak to show the extent of the market demand. But I'm not sure who to write to (I suppose one could write direct to Boardman).
Click to expand...
Taking your advice, I emailed Mr. Boardman. The good news is that he replied pretty quickly. The bad news:

Dear AmarilloByMornin' ,

It is my intent to keep the commitments to those along the existing Chief Route. I understand your interest. The public is way ahead of Congress on the need for connectivity.

Yes we are a private business and we need to make smart decisions and yet we must do our very best to make good on our commitment to our existing customer base at the same time. The United States decided on this long distance network over 40 years ago when it allowed the Freight Railroads to come into being. They were relieved of their money losing passenger traffic by a new company Amtrak. The United States needs to keep their commitment.

I hope at some point your dream of service will be fulfilled but if I can help it, it will not come on the back of those who will lose their service from Dodge City to Raton and beyond.

I wish you well in your quest.

Joe Boardman.

Not exactly what I was hoping for...
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wow, i never saw a letter like that from amtrak before, let alone from boardman. it actually speaks to the issue and appears to be an answer to an idividual as opposed to the usual form letter
 
henryj said:
None of them are Government run agencies with bloated overheads
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I hereby move to bar Henry from uttering the words "bloated overhead" ever again until he actually lays out what parts of Amtrak's overhead are "bloated" and what specific cuts he would make to reduce overhead without affecting the service provided.
 
henryj said:
Yes, it's all subsidized. The diff is airlines are a private business as are bus companies, etc. None of them are Government run agencies with bloated overheads....
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Maybe it's just me, but I have a bigger problem with government subsidizing private business than I do with government subsidizing one of its own agencies.

Transportation requires infrastructure, and train transportation, like the other means of transportation, requires some subsidies. Of course it does. Amtrak's is small compared to the others.

I don't study Amtrak's financial statements, but I am confident if there was obvious widespread bloating, I'd have read the details of it here many, many times. It probably would be helpful if you would be more specific.
 
I'd be more willing to demand Amtrak run a profit on certain routes if we actually did fully support their infastructure requirements.

Down the road where I work we're spending 6 billion dollars on the O'Hare modernization program. Imagine how well we could improve the system and give Amtrak or any operator a chance if we flowed that kind of money into rail transit.
 
mwaddell1 said:
Well Sir, I happen to live in Raton and we are worth mentioning! We need the train here. Have you ever heard of Philmont Boy Scout Ranch? Thousands of scouts and workers arrive here by train every summer. The vistas are absolutely beautiful here, maybe you should visit sometime.
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I mentiloned Philmont in a previous post. I love Raton..always stop there in our journey to see a son in Denver. And the views are stunning and worth going what feels like 5 miles an hour. But..if the states won't support what needs to be done, then change will happen. I worry more about LD train service being cancelled country wide.
 
RyanS said:
henryj said:
None of them are Government run agencies with bloated overheads
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I hereby move to bar Henry from uttering the words "bloated overhead" ever again until he actually lays out what parts of Amtrak's overhead are "bloated" and what specific cuts he would make to reduce overhead without affecting the service provided.
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Ryan, Jebr and gml. It's been documented and written about by 'pundits' smarter than you guys and I am sure you have read the same stuff I have. So quit harassing me about it. Are you playing the three musketeers or the three stooges? lol. All government agencies are full of 'bloated overhead'.
 
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