Southwest Chief News & Future Operations

[TrakFan]

California Zephyr

I sure hope that it the CZ is NOT rerouted. Going through the Rockies is a National Treasure. I believe that all must contact our legislators to prevent this and the chop up of the SWC. The dining car menu is right up theirs with it too. Our great country can rebuild in foreign countries...lets rebuild our National Passenger Railroad too .

 

[cpotisch]

There is an interesting Post on today's (7/07)trainorders by the Vice Chair of the Rail Passenger Association, Carl Fowler.

In addition to discussing all of the the known and speculative info about Andersons proposal for chopping up the Chief Route into 2 Day Trains with a Bustitution bridge, he mentions that Amtrak is in negotiation with UP to reroute the Zephyr through Wyoming between Denver and Salt Lake City, thus eliminating the current routing through the Colorado Rockies between Denver and Salt Lake City!

"Say it ain't so Joe!"

Oh no. This is getting out of hand.

 

[jis]

Meanwhile the CZ out of Denver of yesterday is going through a rather bad fiasco of its own just outside Denver today.

 

[KmH]

Oh! How so?

 

[jis]

Two engine failures including HEP failure east of Fort Morgan after being 11 hours late into Denver due to detour via the Lucine Cutoff. Finally backed into Fort Morgan. The last I heard there was talk of backing it to Denver. Haven’t followed it since then. No HEP in 90+ temp could not have been pleasant in those Steel containers.

 

[margo]

We're planning a trip from Raton to LAX the end of Sept. Do you think the bus stitution will be in effect then? Thank you.

 

[jis]

We're planning a trip from Raton to LAX the end of Sept. Do you think the bus stitution will be in effect then? Thank you.

As far as we know, it is unlikely that any change will happen before the end of the year.

 

[cpotisch]

We're planning a trip from Raton to LAX the end of Sept. Do you think the bus stitution will be in effect then? Thank you.

As far as we know, it is unlikely that any change will happen before the end of the year.

It isn't 100% confirmed yet, right?

 

[railiner]

There is an interesting Post on today's (7/07)trainorders by the Vice Chair of the Rail Passenger Association, Carl Fowler.

In addition to discussing all of the the known and speculative info about Andersons proposal for chopping up the Chief Route into 2 Day Trains with a Bustitution bridge, he mentions that Amtrak is in negotiation with UP to reroute the Zephyr through Wyoming between Denver and Salt Lake City, thus eliminating the current routing through the Colorado Rockies between Denver and Salt Lake City!

"Say it ain't so Joe!"

I wonder how he learned of something as radical as that?

What could possibly be the motive of doing something so unpopular? Is there a chance the UP wants to abandon the route?

First I have heard of any mention of this...hope it's just a wild rumor that someone started.....

 

[chrsjrcj]

There's a PTC gap on part of the Zephyr's route through the Rockies. If the rumor is substantiated, Anderson is holding true to his word about eliminating service over routes that do not have PTC.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/73068-ups-ptc-deployment-plans-and-status-as-of-dec-2017/

 

[jis]

That would either mean no more Coast Starlight or one that runs on the inland route via Bakersfield. Both options seem unlikely. I.e. no change seems most likely. And then there is the Cardinal of course. [emoji57]

 

[NativeSon5859]

Certainly would be an unpopular move from a rail enthusiast point of view, but from a pure transportation standpoint, wouldn’t this detour be the quicker route? I don’t know if this would help the CZ’s poor bottom line, but who knows? I suppose it would cause some to stay away, but if it shaved a couple of hours off the DEN-SLC trip time, it might lead to more business between those cities. Losing some popular mountain stops wouldn’t be good, though.

 

[railiner]

Certainly would be an unpopular move from a rail enthusiast point of view, but from a pure transportation standpoint, wouldn’t this detour be the quicker route? I don’t know if this would help the CZ’s poor bottom line, but who knows?

Let's face it...the CZ is all about the 'scenery', and for now at least, the total 'experience'. Take that away, and the trains value as 'transportation', would pale in comparison. Anyone wanting speed will drive or fly....

 

[fredmcain]

There is an interesting Post on today's (7/07)trainorders by the Vice Chair of the Rail Passenger Association, Carl Fowler.

In addition to discussing all of the the known and speculative info about Andersons proposal for chopping up the Chief Route into 2 Day Trains with a Bustitution bridge, he mentions that Amtrak is in negotiation with UP to reroute the Zephyr through Wyoming between Denver and Salt Lake City, thus eliminating the current routing through the Colorado Rockies between Denver and Salt Lake City!

"Say it ain't so Joe!"

Bob,

You know, I have to say that this whole fiasco was created entirely by Congress. First they pass this PTC mandate but provide no funding for it. Then they yell and scream that they are losing Amtrak service in their Congressional districts. Duh!

You know, the thought has occurred to me - and this is ONLY a thought - that Anderson is doing this deliberately in a kind of "Trump-like" move to get a better deal.

How many "gaps" are there on the CZ route and are they expected to be temporary or permanent?

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

 

[frequentflyer]

Certainly would be an unpopular move from a rail enthusiast point of view, but from a pure transportation standpoint, wouldn’t this detour be the quicker route? I don’t know if this would help the CZ’s poor bottom line, but who knows? I suppose it would cause some to stay away, but if it shaved a couple of hours off the DEN-SLC trip time, it might lead to more business between those cities. Losing some popular mountain stops wouldn’t be good, though.

Yes, it would be quicker to take the "northern" route. The Old San Francisco Zephyr took this route and it was two to three hours quicker.

If this rumor comes true, I expect a day train to be talked about from Denver to Grand Junction.

 

[fredmcain]

'Course, the "You Pee" would have to go along with this change. With the heavy freight traffic on the Green River, WY line, they might not be all that thrilled over such an idea. How long is the "gap" on the ex D&RGW route? I can almost see it now. How 'bout train service from Chicago to Denver and Salt Lake to Oakland, with another "bus bridge" connecting the two?

I would almost bet the farm on one thing: If Anderson succeeds in implementing such so-called "bus bridges" it will completely destroy the long-distance trains. I wouldn't even give them two years because ridership will completely and totally collapse. People are NOT going to do that, plain and simple. Either it is a back-door attempt to get rid of the L-D trains *OR* a clever ploy to get more money out of Congress to pay for PTC on these lines. Time will tell, I guess.

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

 

[railiner]

Certainly would be an unpopular move from a rail enthusiast point of view, but from a pure transportation standpoint, wouldn’t this detour be the quicker route? I don’t know if this would help the CZ’s poor bottom line, but who knows? I suppose it would cause some to stay away, but if it shaved a couple of hours off the DEN-SLC trip time, it might lead to more business between those cities. Losing some popular mountain stops wouldn’t be good, though.

Yes, it would be quicker to take the "northern" route. The Old San Francisco Zephyr took this route and it was two to three hours quicker.

If this rumor comes true, I expect a day train to be talked about from Denver to Grand Junction.

The SFZ also bypassed SLC. And if they wanted to go even faster, they could revert to an all-UP Overland Route, bypassing Denver too, and get back to the City of San Francisco timings...

That won't happen...

http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track8/citysanfran193809.html

 

[cpotisch]

Certainly would be an unpopular move from a rail enthusiast point of view, but from a pure transportation standpoint, wouldn’t this detour be the quicker route? I don’t know if this would help the CZ’s poor bottom line, but who knows? I suppose it would cause some to stay away, but if it shaved a couple of hours off the DEN-SLC trip time, it might lead to more business between those cities. Losing some popular mountain stops wouldn’t be good, though.

Yes, it would be quicker to take the "northern" route. The Old San Francisco Zephyr took this route and it was two to three hours quicker.

If this rumor comes true, I expect a day train to be talked about from Denver to Grand Junction.

The SFZ also bypassed SLC. And if they wanted to go even faster, they could revert to an all-UP Overland Route, bypassing Denver too, and get back to the City of San Francisco timings...

That won't happen...

http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track8/citysanfran193809.html

Wow. About 39 hours from Chicago to Oakland. That's pretty amazing.

 

[DavidJustinLynch]

Anderson wasn't hired so "hundreds of people" could tell him "how to run a railroad". He was hired to tell hundreds of railroaders how to run a passenger transportation business. Emphasis on "business". He seems to be doing a good job of it.

It should not be a business. It is an amenity of a civilized country.

 

[railiner]

Certainly would be an unpopular move from a rail enthusiast point of view, but from a pure transportation standpoint, wouldn’t this detour be the quicker route? I don’t know if this would help the CZ’s poor bottom line, but who knows? I suppose it would cause some to stay away, but if it shaved a couple of hours off the DEN-SLC trip time, it might lead to more business between those cities. Losing some popular mountain stops wouldn’t be good, though.

Yes, it would be quicker to take the "northern" route. The Old San Francisco Zephyr took this route and it was two to three hours quicker.

If this rumor comes true, I expect a day train to be talked about from Denver to Grand Junction.

The SFZ also bypassed SLC. And if they wanted to go even faster, they could revert to an all-UP Overland Route, bypassing Denver too, and get back to the City of San Francisco timings...

That won't happen...

http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track8/citysanfran193809.html

Wow. About 39 hours from Chicago to Oakland. That's pretty amazing.

And the eastward Broadway Limited for a while ran Chicago to New York in 15', 30". See?...you were "born too late"

 

[Seaboard92]

Heck there was a day train Chicago to New Orleans too that did the run similar to the palmetto in time. It also made the century mark.

 

[cpotisch]

It also made the century mark.

What do you mean?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

It also made the century mark.

What do you mean?

100 MPH

 

[MikefromCrete]

The City of New Orleans, back in Illinois Central days, operated at 100 mph through certain areas in Illinois.

 

[ehbowen]

The City of New Orleans, back in Illinois Central days, operated at 100 mph through certain areas in Illinois.

I was on an Amtrak City of New Orleans in the Christmas 1981 time frame (In Other Words, the statute of limitations has long since expired), and we pulled into Carbondale 45 minutes late. The crew changed, and when we resumed our way south it was obvious that we were traveling faster than (at that time) I'd ever done on rails before. I sought out the conductor and asked him, privately, "How fast are we going?"

He answered, "The speed limit on this section of track is ninety miles per hour."

I said, "I didn't ask that. I asked, 'How fast are we going?'"

He said, "Knowing this engineer...probably about one seventeen!"

We were early into Cairo....