Acela 21 (Avelia Liberty) development, testing and deployment

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They could have done it when they brought out the Acela they already had a team put together.
How? They barely managed to hobble through the Acela introduction and had to get two additional unplanned infusion of funds to get what we got. The situation has always been pretty miserable no matter how many billions get thrown at it. One had hoped that it would somehow be different this time around.
 
If you were a betting person, when would you bet these enter revenue service? I am guessing September or October 2024 from the OIG report. But perhaps that is optimistic....
 
If you were a betting person, when would you bet these enter revenue service? I am guessing September or October 2024 from the OIG report. But perhaps that is optimistic....

A lot of things are happening in 2024 when it comes to rail. Speaking of high speed trainsets, CAHSR in California is going to issue an RFP for high speed trainsets in Q1 of 2024, but as of now they're in the RFQ phase. I just hope the new Acelas have their issues worked out and the sets are back to testing by the time CAHSR places their order. I also hope the original Acelas can make it to the end of 2024 without more sets being taken out of service.
 
IMHO it would be best if Amtrak ordered enough Airos to replace and expand the existing Acela service. Even though they only operate at 125 mph this limitation could be mitigated by running express services that start in Washington and stop at Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, Newark, New York Penn, New Haven, Providence, and Boston.
 
News articles indicate it's a modified limited hang out for Alstom, not as bad as I was expecting. After buying Bombardier, it became the second largest rail manufacturer after CRRC. It's still losing money on Bombardier contracts, and needs some short term cash. So it will raise capital, which normally drives down the stock price, and sell some stuff.

It has a €90.1b order backlog, €2b net debt, pretty good. Debt rating is just at investment grade, one step above junk. Delays and goods costs are hurting, and management did a turnaround on saying cash flow was fine recently. The Acela Avelia Liberty thing has been well discussed here.

One report said it was already pulling out of a deal with a manufacturer in Russia. Reuters has the scoop on what assets might be sold:
Redburn Atlantic analyst James Moore said the group had an array of disposal options.

"These would likely include, but are not limited to, their 13 Chinese joint ventures and the commodity freight side of the GE signalling business,” he said in an emailed comment.
 
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And I just died laughing.

Plan B was Plan A. 😬
The problem appears to be that Alstom apparently did not have a Plan B, and hubris is still carrying the day. According t reports I have seen from usually reliable sources, they refused all help from FRA and Amtrak to help them get their model to work. We don;t appear to be heading for a good outcome and it is primarily due to Alstom's bone headedness. Amtrak's role is in not monitoring the progress and flagging things early on and putting a stop to it. It appears to be within the realm of possibilities that between Amtrak and Alstom they will land up with 28 things that only run on electricity and that won't be able to operate any faster than the Airos. Meanwhile a lot of Popcorn will need to be dispensed among us sitting and watching this with dismay from the sidelines, as far as I can tell.

I hope you folks at Amtrak have something less depressing to share with us now or soon.
 
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Alstom the problem ?? lets just list all suppliers Amtrak has problems with, now- in past - in future. there is only one common denominator in all this.
as for Alstom absorbing Bombardier ? yes Bombardier has had some poor workmanship issues but how much or how many people ended up in Avelia production?
 
Alstom the problem ?? lets just list all suppliers Amtrak has problems with, now- in past - in future. there is only one common denominator in all this.
as for Alstom absorbing Bombardier ? yes Bombardier has had some poor workmanship issues but how much or how many people ended up in Avelia production?
Notwithstanding all that, for this particular order, it is Alstom that is the primary problem since they cannot get their train to operate consistent with the simulation model that they are trying to use to get it certified, or stated another way, get the simulation model to behave like the actual train. That is the primary holdup at present, and they have refused all offers of help from anyone. Additionally they have the requisite set of manufacturing quality issues, but that at present is not exactly holding up anything, since the design issues need to be resolved first.

Now Amtrak's role in the problem is that they wrote a purchase contract without a clause to require their approval before line manufacturing could begin, so Alstom has gone ahead and manufactured a whole slew of units without getting operating certification or any possibility of them getting accepted by Amtrak absent such FRA certification.

It is a pretty big mess.
 
According t reports I have seen from usually reliable sources, they refused all help from FRA and Amtrak to help them get their model to work.
I heard this and knew about it well and before the OIG report came out, I couldn't say anything publicly about it however.

They're still having issues with water leaks in the passenger compartments. One of the sets the toilets don't flush and they don't have a fix for that yet. So this is a cluster of fun.
 
Amtrak did what the critics wanted, buy a proven product. The TGV is a proven product, but the NEC infrastructure seems to be the problem.
 
Amtrak did what the critics wanted, buy a proven product. The TGV is a proven product, but the NEC infrastructure seems to be the problem.
I think the core problem is that everyone forgot the old adage that "you fight a battle with the army that you have, not the one that you wish you had". Proven product in one environment takes just some of the uncertainty away, but it still is an unproven product in a vastly different environment until it is domesticated in the new environment. Currently we are observing serious problems in the last step. At the end of the day there always is a bit of black art aspect to Engineering as we Engineers have always know. Nothing really works even if it has worked elsewhere, until it has been tested and proven to work here.

The odd aspect here is that it is the inability to model the behavior in the new environment using a model that worked in the other environment that is the holdup. The tracks and the rail-wheel interaction turns out to be so different here as to cause such serious problem. We knew that the tracks are bad but .....???
 
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The tracks and the rail-wheel interaction turns out to be so different here as to cause such serious problem. We knew that the tracks are bad but .....???
Not being an engineer, I don't understand, why that is? I thought that the NEC tracks were supposed to be good... 🤔
 
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