Amtrak Geuest Rewards MasterCard issues - beware

[gyuri_ft]

Hello,

I had today a problem with MBNA bank (the issuer of the Amtrak Guest Rewards Mastercard). I am not sure, is this out - of - topic here, but since it was an Amtrak card and the issue could potentially damage my belowed company (no, it's NOT the MBNA! ), I dare to post it here.

Background: I did use the FirstUSA "United" mileage VISA for number of years. After United went ch.11 and after we re-discovered Amtrak (and after many happy journays on the American rails) I decided to switch from FirstUSA to MBNA. The fact that the Amtrak Guest Rewards MasterCard was free (but the United Visa wasn't) did not hurt either.

So I accumulated a few points on Amtrak with that MasterCard until a minor inconvenience accured: this month we had a few business expenses and also some Amtrak travel with the sleeper - so that credit line of $5000 was maxed out. I did discover it this Monday so I quickly made a payment on-line of $2000 to MBNA at about 2:00 PM PDT this Monday. After a phone call I was assured by the MBNA customer support specialist, I can use the card again no later, than 5/1/2003 (or today). To my surprize, I could not use the card today. I checked the on-line Payment Center and I was able to see the $2000 under the payment activity with the status "Paid". The credit card account however wasn't credited. The MBNA customer support specialist told me on the phone, they need one more(!) day for the $2000 to actually appear on the card. What does make things even worse, the MBNA customer support specialist (and her supervisor) had no way(!) to access my payment activity from her system.

Therefore unlike the competitors (FirstUSA, AmericanExpress, etc.) MBNA needs about 72(!) hours to post the payment on the customer's account. The other banks do it usually within 24 hours, Amex (according to my experience) even less. The only option for me to use the card today would be to either increase the credit line or to ask for the authorization of the charge. I am very conservative regarding the credit line increses, so I opted for the second. The supervisor told me, the line of the authorization department is busy so she wanted to give me their number. I asked her to close the account - it was simply too much hassle for no reason. Also, the bank did use my money for at least two day without paying a single penny in interest. Further, the system where an account specialist cannot access the customer's real-time payment activity is flawed. And last, but not least. What happens, if I pay the balance in full two days before the due date? MBNA not just will use my money for "free" for 72 hours, they also will charge a late fee and a fat interest on what I do not even ow them.

While every bank tries to stretch the possibilities to a certain limit and they are definitly not a caritative organzation, the MBNA's practice seem to be worse, than of several of it's competitors, including FirstUSA.

It was a very sad moment I had to close my Guest Rewards MasterCard accont because it really did provide me with quite a few Amtrak points recently. However, with this move I wanted to show my opinion about MBNA. Also, I would like to express my opinion that perhaps Amtrak should re-consider its policy to partner with MBNA and look for an other bank. I won't even mind to pay a modest credit card fee yearly - if everything else is honest and the bank's system is up-to-date.

My question to the forum: who would be the best partner at Amtrak I should speak about my experience with MBNA?

Thanks -

George

 

[AlanB]

George,

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with the card, although there is little that Amtrak can do about it. I also suspect that transferring the program to another bank would not be easy. I guess that you would have to complain to the Guest Rewards program.

I am however quite surprised to hear you say the First USA is better. I actually have two cards from them, and they tell you right on the online payment page that it can take up to three days for your payment to show up. I quote from their payment page.

It will take up to 3 business days for your payment to post to your account. Please make sure the date you enter for the payment is at least 3 business days before your payment due date.

So trust me they are walking around with your money too, just like MNBA. Now I can't speak as to their ability for a customer service rep to see what's going on, as I've never tried that. I personally got caught with a late fee once about six months ago, when they did take the full three days to process my payment.

So far only American Express and Capital One seem to be able to process payments on a timely basis. Amex usually does it in one day, although occasionally I've had to wait two days for a payment to show up.

Capital One on the other hand actually guarantees right on their payment page, that any payment entered before 3:00 PM EST time will post to your account that day, and the funds will be available the very next day. If you pay after 3:00 PM then it takes an extra day.

Ps. Have you checked with your bank to see what day they transferred the funds?

 

[carknocker51]

I will be watching my account with MBNA very closly , like I do with any card I own...I can't stand for any company that use's my money only for their interest....I know they must make a profit,but "not at my expence"....I fired my last card company for very shady dealing's...good luck...I'll be watching closely....I like getting the points,but I can live without them.... <_<

 

[PRR 60]

The bank has your money? Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it the other way around?

When you have a no-fee credit card, and you pay your balance monthly, you are the one with the no-interest loan, not the bank. You are spending the bank’s money, and keeping yours until the bill is due. Except for pushing back the limit (as was the case with gyuri_ft) or meeting your payment date, the day your account is credited makes absolutely no difference. Just as long as you pay in full and on-time, you can start over and spend the bank’s money at no cost again next month, and next month, and so on. I probably have about a average balance $2000 loan year ‘round from Bank of America (US*Airways Visa) and do not pay one dime in interest. Don’t weep for BA, however. They get their piece of the action from the merchants.

Now, if you carry a credit card balance, that’s a different story. It is not a good story either. Credit card finance charges are second only to a South Philly loan shark as the world’s worst financing. It’s very convenient and very tempting, but very, very expensive. Don’t do it!

 

[jccollins]

Maybe the payment was shipped to the payment center on the Coast Starlight, and it was running just a little late (a day or so) and that was what accounted for the payment being processed a day late.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Ok, to be serious, you might wish to contact the Amtrak Guest Rewards Information Desk at 1-800-307-5000 M-F 8am-8pm ET. They should be able to help you follow up with this issue. They are the ones who have the credit card partnership with the MBNA, not Amtrak directly. Good luck.

 

[gyuri_ft]

jcollins - I just bought 5 tickets for us on CS from SJC to KFT so you could be right.

I hope it will be late the usual 2 hours so we can see the Mt. Shasta in the morning.

(We are going middle June, just at the time it will be the tunnel work after KFT. Just wonder, what zoo will it be - late train, busses taking the people to Eugine... At least we won't go beyond KFT.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

There was a big story on CNBC Wednesday about how the financial services industries are making enormous profits from fees, selling lists, and various tricks such as the posting delay you describe. The latest annual report from MBNA describes how profitable their "theme credit card" business (such as the Amtrak Guest Rewards card) has been. I have used MBNA cards for some time, and have found that you have to send payments early and watch the account very closely. You will also find that MBNA includes rather aggressive telemarketing in their products; you'll get lots of dinner-time phone calls.

The whole financial services industry is following MBNA's lead. The party is over, and someone will be paying for the billions of dollars in bad credit card debt.

 

[tp49]

Don;t get me started on MBNA, don;t even get me started...I'm calling those people at least 3 or 4 times a year for some problem or another like the time they encoded my payment check for 1000 more than it was supposed to be...grrr. Anytime they try to throw a fee on my account I go into mega-lawyer mode and get them taken off, just be aggressive with them they'll budge.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

Indeed! MBNA has done all of that to me as well: tack on an extra $1000 to my posting, don't post at all, and insert a fee here and there. The bad news is that these kinds of practices are invading the whole industry. MBNA is merely a leader in some of the tricks and treats to come. I'm an MBNA stock holder, and find the annual reports extremely interesting and very depressing. Watch your account like a hawk. Your effort will reward you, as this is the shape of things to come.

 

[piedpiper13]

:angry: Keep tabs on your interest rate too! They tried to raise mine from 9.9% to 17.9% and I had not missed a payment or anything!! :huh: Customer Service said, The computer sometimes does this all by itself!!! They did lower it back however. Whew!!

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

The folks in customer service must think we are all jerks and idiots. The computers don't do this kind of thing all by themselves. These are carefully planned schemes. The whole industry counts on our being too busy or too lazy to check statements and monitor our accounts. The referenced CNBC report from last week suggested tens of billions of dollars are forked over to banks, insurance companies, and other such industries each year. It's all part of the product portfolio. As long as the industry has control of the personal information data bases, we consumers have to be very careful. Don't look to congress for help; they are the ones who fought the fair credit reporting initiatives. As for Amtrak switching providers from MBNA; it’s probably too late, and MBNA is about the only game in town for this kind of thing.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

For the full scope, read about MBNA's affinity marketing scheme.

 

[frank]

IMHO,

All credit card companies, banks, and especially mortgage institutions should be watched with due dilligence. That's all a part of doing business. Never let your powder get wet. Sleep with one eye open. Watch out for halfling ringbearers. Pick your analogy.

But, when it comes to Amtrak's Guest Rewards program, you have to play the game, and it's working great for me so far. Here's how I do it:

Go to mbna.com. Register for online access to your account. Enter your checking account as a debit source. Charge everything on your card. Please remember that as with all budgets, you need to be prepared to be be totally responsible with this tactic. I'm a small business owner, so I can run cash through this account for purchases easily. And I am responsible.

Now.....up your limit. I went from $3k to $15 the 1st month or so. Now I purchase goods and services to the max and gain rewards points.

The key to this stratedgy is to pay MBNA back fast, before interest, and as someone else on this board already posted, you are using someone else's (MBNA's) money when you do this, if only for 30 days. 30 days is enough. This is the key. Card companies are counting on you getting into debt and paying the minimum, you can't blame them for that when they spell it out to you up front. That's their game.

Now....back to the debit access at MBNA.com. You can schedule your payments to autoflow from your checking account at the precise moment you want. So...you are never late on your payment. You're never waiting for the postal service to deliver your statements from mbna. You are on top of this game.

This setup is so smooth. In the first month or so I have a deluxe bedroom across two time zones one way. Before I know it, I'll have the return. Then another, and another, then the world!

All thanks to other people's money. Couldn't be sweeter. See you in the diner.

Frank

 

[gyuri_ft]

I read it - it's scary. "MBNA’s marketing and lending strategies produce fine Customers whose responsible habits are hard to break—Customers whose balances are higher and whose loan losses are lower."

or

"Success is getting the right Customers and keeping them. The right Customer is someone who will borrow from us and, of course, someone who will pay us back on time."

I am an awful customer for them - I had/have zero balance.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

Don’t worry; it’s not scary. It is, in fact, a game. I do just as (unregistered) frank does, and it works great. I signed up for Internet access so that I can watch the account (like a hawk), and I arranged for automatic and early electronic payments direct from my bank account. There is some risk to this second part, as you are generally giving MBNA permission to muck around in your account in ways you may not like with such permission, but the risk is much less than the virtual certainty MBNA will post mail payments late or not at all. Then, I raised the credit limit high, and charge everything through the account. I haven’t paid cash money for Amtrak travel since December 2002, and I opened the account last fall. I complete about 60 percent of my business travel on Amtrak, which is an average of 1 or 2 long distance trips a month. I suppose MBNA doesn’t like the fact that I pay off the account in full all the time, but I’m playing by their rules.