Amtrak to Drop Pennsylvaninan...

[Viewliner]

Click here for the story from TRAINS News Wire.

Amtrak to drop Pennsylvanian west of Pittsburgh

Amtrak’s Philadelphia-Chicago Pennsylvanian will revert to a train operating no farther west than Pittsburgh in January as the railroad phases out the express business that was the train’s raison d’etre west of the Steel City. The train will, however, be extended east to New York City, offering single-train Pittsburgh-New York service like its Three Rivers counterpart (which will remain on its present Chicago-Akron-Pittsburgh-New York route).

The Pennsylvanian was extended west of Pittsburgh to Chicago, via Cleveland and Toledo, four years ago as part of Amtrak’s plan to tap the express market. But the railroad is phasing out express, and will truncate the train at Pittsburgh effective with the January 27, 2003, timetable change, Amtrak spokesman Dan Stessel said on December 11.

The demise of the Pennsylvanian west of Pittsburgh—serving stations also covered by the Chicago-Albany-Boston/New York “Lake Shore Limited” and Chicago-Washington “Capitol Limited”—has been rumored for months.

“Most of the business west of Pittsburgh was based on the continuation of express service,” Stessel said. “Now that that’s being phased out, there’s no particular need for this train to operate west of Pittsburgh.”

Ridership on the westbound train has been low in Ohio, Indiana, and Chicago owing to its express-driven late afternoon and evening schedule and its 2:25 a.m. scheduled arrival time in Chicago, Stessel said. The eastbound, which leaves Chicago at 1 a.m. and used to do so at 6 a.m., offers a daylight service for passengers boarding at Toledo, Cleveland, and points east. The train is due into Philadelphia at 9:15 p.m. but used to be carded in around midnight.

Amtrak says it will save money by converting the train to a New York-Pittsburgh service. The railroad also plans to tweak the eastbound schedule so it arrives in Philadelphia about three hours earlier, around dinnertime, Stessel said.

Stessel was unable to say whether Amtrak is reviewing the status or planning to drop the Kentucky Cardinal, the nightly Chicago-Louisville, Ky., train whose fortunes are also linked with express business.

The only other confirmed major change coming with Amtrak’s January 27 timetable will be the addition of a 10th Acela Express trip linking New York and Boston in both directions: an 11:15 a.m. departure from Boston and a 12:03 p.m. departure from New York.

Any reactions?

 

[Superliner Diner]

That story quoted by Viewliner was based on a Pittsburgh point of view. Here is another article written for the Toledo Blade in Toledo, OH which, unlike Pittsburgh, will not only lose the train totally but will have no daylight service left.

Amtrak’s Pennsylvanian train through Toledo has lived by the boxcar, and next month it will die by the boxcar.
Effective Jan. 27, a railroad spokesman said yesterday, the Pennsylvanian will revert to a New York-Pittsburgh schedule, after a little more than four years as a Philadelphia-Chicago train with stops in Sandusky and Toledo along the way.

The entire article is here.

 

[Viewliner]

I only hope the Kentucky Cardinal survives. Maybe it could either get some rescheduling for daylight service, and added amenities once the wrecked Superliners are repaired. I think this train has potential, starting with the Nashville extension, then ultimately (Miami) Florida.

 

[Superliner Diner]

And my reaction? Well, as both articles said, without the boxcars providing some revenue, that train just wasn't cutting it financially. I hate to see Ohio, particularly, lose its daytime service. Now people in Cleveland and Toledo will have to go back to making trains at 2 or 3 AM, very unfriendly calling times, but essential for overnight trains between Chicago and the east coast. On any overnight train, somebody has to have poor calling times. It's a shame the Pennsylvanian could not do more business on its day trip. There were several problems with the Philly-Chicago Pennsylvanian schedule that was in effect between 1997 and earlier in 2002:

* Although it operated during the day in Ohio and Indiana, it departed both endpoints too early in the morning (6-6:30 AM) and arrived at both of its destinations after midnight. The change made earlier this year corrected this problem on the eastern end of the route, but created an even later Chicago arrival, and an almost-impossible 1 AM departure from the Windy City.

* Lack of connections: A poor schedule means no connecting trains at its endpoint cities. True, they showed connections to and from New York City and Washington at Philadelphia, but those waits were 3 or 4 hours, sometimes longer.

* It was not marketed well. Perhaps if more people knew about it, they could have used it. Often the entire route was being sold on the internet Rail Sale for dirt cheap prices, such as $16 one-way Philadelphia to Chicago. But you had to know of this sale's existence to partake of it.

* Lack of amenities: While Business Class was offered in its later years, the Chicago extension of the Pennsylvanian really had nothing to offer. While considered to be a day train, it did operate in darkness, particularly on the extreme ends of its route in Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Illinois. Maybe some who don't mind paying premiums would have enjoyed having a sleeper at their disposal, even if not sleeping all night? And being the only daytime train through parts of western Pennsylvania, Ohio, and eastern Indiana, they could have capitalized on this and operated some type of dome car so people could appreciate the scenery. This train also received the worst possible equipment. Horizon coaches and dinettes, usually used on the Midwestern corridor trains, found their way east via this train. Routinely, the Pennsylvanian and the Illini shared equipment, so the train leaving Philadelphia would find its way down to Carbondale, IL the next day, and then the next day it would run Carbondale to Chicago and back to Philadelphia. Horizon coaches are glorified commuter coaches, and Horizon dinettes are a step below the various Amfleets found in the east. No dining car either, which some prefer on a trip of that length.

I once rode Train 43 the entire distance from Philadelphia to Chicago on the older schedule. It was a marathon. I had connected from 67, tried to sleep in PHL during my 3-hour layover, endured a delay in Harrisburg with the boxcars being put on, and got tired of the limited fare in the snack car. Train was a little over an hour late into Chicago (2 AM or so), at which time we were herded out of Union Station onto Canal Street expected to find accomodations at that hour. Were it not for my friend boarding in Cleveland, bring me a lukewarm KFC dinner to eat, I would have been extremely hungry as well.

A better schedule is possible, but Amtrak never embraced it. Overnight between New York and Pittsburgh, and running by day west of Pittsburgh would have assured the train of a Chicago arrival around dinnertime. This was the schedule on paper of the DOA Skyline Connection, which never materialized. And in the other direction, a mid-morning departure from Chicago, late evening arrival in PGH, and overnight to Philadelphia and onward to New York. This would assure Ohioans of their daytime train, while still providing an overnight service over part of the route that would require Amtrak to supply a sleeper on this train.

 

[Superliner Diner]

I only hope the Kentucky Cardinal survives. Maybe it could either get some rescheduling for daylight service, and added amenities once the wrecked Superliners are repaired. I think this train has potential, starting with the Nashville extension, then ultimately (Miami) Florida.

I totally agree with you Viewliner. After all the fight that went into getting this train extended from Jeffersonville to Louisville, and with the relative ease in extending it further to Nashville, it would be a shame to lose it. But since the train has been treated like an unwanted stepchild (having its sleepers "borrowed" for other trains, not providing decent meal service, etc.) the potential passengers have spoken by avoiding the train. It has routinely operated with fewer passengers than you could count on one hand, if that many. There were days it terminated in Jeffersonville, its old terminus, because nobody was going to Louisville. And the downgrade from Superliners to whatever Amfleet or Horizon equipment they could throw together, while not avoidable due to wreck damage in other parts of the country, was probably the final straw.

Once they kill off this train south of Indianapolis, it will be difficult to get it back. And it will be equally difficult to someday operate it beyond Louisville to Nashville and the deep south because this "failure" will unfortunately always be remembered.

 

[Viewliner]

I completely agree with you.

The Skyline Connection was a good proposal, but like it counterparts lacked a diner. I would eventually like to see those changes you mentioned implimented.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Keep in mind folks that this has not yet been announced "officially" by an Amtrak press release. The newspaper reports are based on internal leaks from Amtrak employees, who by the way don't get things right 100% of the time. Usually such an announcement from the corporation is accompanied by changes to their reservations system (and of course the company's website) to reflect these changes, so that nobody tries to book space on a train that is being cancelled.

From my research tonight, I have found that so far the Pennsylvanian and the Kentucky Cardinal still show space over their entire routes a few days after January 27th. So like everything else, believe it only when you see it. Also remember that should the Kentucky Cardinal get the ax, the 180-day notice rule would apply since this is the only train on the route. The Pennsylvanian does not serve any stations that are not served by other trains, so it can be cancelled without the 180-day notice. So while the notice could be applied early next year, if not sooner, the K-Card should survive at least until the summer of 2003.

 

[Steve4031]

It would be great to have a skyline connection with a diner, but before that, it would be even better to have a Three rivers with a diner that is renamed the Broadway Limited. Also, I would like to see Amtrak focus on upgrading food service on snack car only trains.

 

[Amfleet]

The Skyline Connection was only going to be another "mail/fregiht" train so it would not make sense to bring back the plan. I would much rather see the Cardinal become a daily train with Superliners and see the Three Rivers with another Sleeper and an added Diner!

 

[Viewliner]

The Skyline Connection was only going to be another "mail/fregiht" train so it would not make sense to bring back the plan. I would much rather see the Cardinal become a daily train with Superliners and see the Three Rivers with another Sleeper and an added Diner!

I like the idea of the Broadway Limited (Diner, Extra Sleeper), so I agree with both of you. The Skyline connection would've had a different schedule, and at the time a Viewliner and a lounge (Three Rivers still had Heritage Sleeper).

I could find the schedule w/ times if anyones interested.

I'd like to see Daily Cardinal, a Kentucky Cardinal to Miami (via Nashville and Atlanta renamed The Floridian).

 

[Superliner Diner]

Well, it seems everyone's getting in on the action. We've heard in this thread from the media in Toledo and Pittsburgh. Here is Cleveland's take on the same story:

If you intend to ride Amtrak out of Elyria or Cleveland after Jan. 27, you'll have to hop aboard during the wee hours of the morning.
Amtrak is cutting service from Cleveland to Philadelphia about 9 a.m. and its daily westbound train to Chicago about 8 p.m.

The article can be read here.

 

[Superliner Diner]

And a rail advocacy group called Association for Rail Travel in the US put out a statement in reaction to the news of the Pennsylvanian train-off west of Pittsburgh, calling essentially for continuance of the train, but on a more passenger-friendly schedule. The full statement, including their proposed schedules, and use of equipment for the Pennsylvanian (renamed New Yorker) and Three Rivers, is here.

I agree with most of their scheduling, and understand it's being done to provide the best service to the public while preserving maintenance windows in Chicago and New York. I don't think that their eastbound schedule for Train #44 is totally passenger-friendly. It would leave Chicago at 2:30 PM and get to Philadelphia 9:29 AM and New York 11:59 AM. But the problem is at Pittsburgh, which is left out by all this, with its 20-minute layover spanning the 1 AM hour. Again while what they did is best for maintenance windows, my idea of the ideal operation of this train would be exactly 3 hours earlier than that. That would be roughly 11:30 AM out of Chicago, 10 PM in Pittsburgh, 6:30 AM in Philadelphia, and 9 AM in New York. I guess you can't have everything, but anything that can be done to maintain this train, and keep those in the middle of the route satisfied with daytime service has to be better than simply eliminating the train west of Pittsburgh.

 

[Amfleet]

As Veiwliner would say, "We need more Viewliners." I think we've hit the max and if train service is to be added I'm going to estimate about 20 sleepers, and 30 diners are going to need to be built! B)

 

[Guest]

As Veiwliner would say, "We need more Viewliners." I think we've hit the max and if train service is to be added I'm going to estimate about 20 sleepers, and 30 diners are going to need to be built! B)

...Well (Budd-like quality).

 

[Guest_Viewliner]

As Veiwliner would say, "We need more Viewliners." I think we've hit the max and if train service is to be added I'm going to estimate about 20 sleepers, and 30 diners are going to need to be built! B)

...Well.

 

[Amfleet]

Viewliner is that you? Did you mean to post twice! B)

 

[Viewliner]

No, posted from school, no time to log in, and wanted you guys to know it was me.

I think we need:

More Sleepers

Diners

Baggage Dorms

Coaches (Maybe some Smoking Coaches too)

Sightseer Lounges (enough to have a FC Lounge on each train too)

Baggage Cars

Deluxe Sleepers (Silver Service)

In that order. I think Amtrak should go to the crew and passengers to see how these cars can be improved (like what was done with the prototypes), and then look for a Budd/Pullman-Standard Quality Builder (i.e. cars built to last). We should look to Talgo (Trains are very reliable on Cascades Service) or Temoinsa, and avoid Bombardier (Warrington, interestingly enough just orded new bi-levels from them for NJT)/Alstom.

 

[Viewliner]

The train may still have a chance, thanks to the NARP.

NARP this week asked Amtrak to consider extending the train to Cleveland or Toledo (where there space to store the train overnight).

Click here for the full story from the NARP Hotline.